The $500-Ish, Viper V10-Powered Rolls-Royce

Story and Photography by the Staff of the 24 Hours of Lemons

Rub your eyes a few times if you’d like, but you’re seeing this correctly. That is a Dodge Viper V10 (actually one from a Dodge Ram SRT-10, but same difference) dropped into a 1970s Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow (actually, it’s a long-wheelbase Silver Spur.) It raced in the 24 Hours of Lemons, the racing series for $500 cars. How could this budgetary travesty be allowed?

Well, it’s pretty easy: Nobody was worried about a three-ton car running away with an endurance race without using OPEC-altering levels of gasoline, tires and brakes. Simply put, if it took a bit more than $500 to assemble, it still fell within Lemons’ general “race a befuddling vehicle” concept.

A man named Darko crafted the Rolls-Royce himself in the damp Detroit warehouse where he parts out exotic cars. Yep, he works in that niche of salvage, which explains how he had a couple of Viper engines and a Roller sitting around. Starting with the Rolls-Royce shell, he swapped on a GM F-body front suspension and a Ford 9-inch rear end from a 1950s pickup. The probably-not-quite-$500 Watts-link rear suspension seemed pretty capable.

All of the fabrication work looked simply stunning, which is even more amazing because Darko said he’d never built anything remotely like this. He simply emulated what he dismantled from high-end cars.

So how did it do? Naturally, the SRT-10 engine hucked a connecting rod out of the engine block on the car’s fourth lap at GingerMan Raceway. After fetching and swapping a second Viper engine from his Detroit shop, however, Darko and his Pacific Motors team clocked some respectable lap times.

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Comments
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Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa HalfDork
4/29/20 10:45 a.m.

Oh, he just went and got a second Viper engine.  No big deal.

WTF.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UberDork
4/29/20 12:06 p.m.
Mr_Asa said:

Oh, he just went and got a second Viper engine.  No big deal.

WTF.

Things like "viper engine" and "rolls royce" sound cool when it comes to crapcan racing until rods end up in the troposphere and finding parts is both timely and expensive. Even with that being said....it is still pretty f'ing rad and probably sounded amazing too. 

 

morello159
morello159 Reader
4/29/20 12:29 p.m.

No pictures of said amazing fabrication? I am disappoint.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
4/29/20 12:38 p.m.

$500 hunnert doolar, my ass. As Jay would say. That car will never win the race, so why worry?

slowbird
slowbird Dork
4/29/20 1:09 p.m.
Appleseed said:

$500 hunnert doolar, my ass. As Jay would say. That car will never win the race, so why worry?

Exactly this. The Lemons organizers want to see cool weird cars, and in cases like this, they aren't worried about it being fast or reliable, so they're happy to give some slack on the budget.

They just did a video about an Aston Martin that a guy got as a rolling shell, fabricated all the suspension mounting points etc. himself, and put a small block Ford in it. He even showed up and said "I know this is not a $500 car, please give me all the penalty laps you want, I just want to race an Aston Martin in Lemons"

So they did, and the car was terribly slow and didn't steer right, and it was awesome anyway because it's an Aston Martin in Lemons.

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE Dork
4/29/20 1:19 p.m.

Yeah, and the creator Darko has spent FAR more than just a couple thousand on this monster.

Also, those V10 truck motors only share the bottom end. I think even the water pump is different from the truck to the Viper.

ross2004
ross2004 Reader
4/29/20 1:21 p.m.
morello159 said:

No pictures of said amazing fabrication? I am disappoint.

 

https://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=36831

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/29/20 1:32 p.m.

This thing is amazing in the flesh.  It was at RadWood Detroit last year.  Here are some pics, sorry about the quality, the camera was dying on me, new phone since then.  The only think I don't like is those stupid  spike lug nuts.  No one should be allowed to put them on anything, unless they are willing to have someone drive past them with them fitted at 5mph and take out their shins.  This comes from a childhood incident where a friend ended up in hospital after some Douche bag shredded his legs with similar spike on their bike wheel.  

 

BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter)
BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
4/29/20 1:47 p.m.

I see a dealer plate, presumably that means it was driven on the street. If so, that’s awesome.

KillermgBee
KillermgBee None
4/29/20 1:50 p.m.

This is what Lemons is all about! We've raced against Darko at th Empire Hill Climb and Lemons. Anyone can buy a car but to fab something like this together on a shoestring budget and then actually race it is awesome, my hats off to him! 

nimblemotorsports
nimblemotorsports HalfDork
4/29/20 2:28 p.m.

No, Lemons WAS about $500 cars.  NOW it about being desperate to allow ANYTHING to race and pay the entry fees.   

No thanks, someone pooped in the sandbox with their $10,000 E36 M3can build.  Ain't playing anymore.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/29/20 2:45 p.m.

In reply to nimblemotorsports :

So how do you really feel?

I know what you mean, but it's the nature of competition.  Forget that, its the nature of reality.  Look at the $20xx challenge.  It started as the $1,500 challenge, then became the $20xx challenge.  Then safety items were allowed, than replacement brake parts, then tires, then roll cages etc.  Now it's the $20xx challenge plus an additional $1-3K in 'free' stuff.  That's part of why I think they should remove the budget cap and I bet the challenge would still be just as cool.  Just replaced the year cost cap with a BS score.  Same with LeMons and Chump.  It's just not practical to have an artificial cap.  A $500 Rolls is perfectly feasible if you're in the RR or scrap business, but not if you're a regular person.  Hell even a $500 econobox buys something very different here in the rust belt compared to desert areas.  To me this car is more in the spirit of the rules than a pro built $500 Miata with some wicked hidden E36 M3 underneath.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UberDork
4/29/20 3:01 p.m.

Adrian -- Chump went that route via Champ and it kind of bit them in the ass. They were allowing anything to race, placing those cars in EC, and giving them some penalty laps. People eventually complained when IMSA race cars started showing up to race people like me with $6000 race cars (that's car, parts, and misc fab included). I honestly didn't care; however, I see the validity in the complaints and having some restrictions.

T.J.
T.J. MegaDork
4/29/20 3:02 p.m.

I've never been to a Lemons race. I'd rather see some cobbled together heap like this even it is nowhere near a $500 car than upside down camaros or airplanes or boats or other such nonsense. 
 

Seems to me that Lemons is whatever the nickel guy says it is with different rules for different folks. I'd still like to spectate or better yet participate in one of their events. 

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/29/20 3:21 p.m.
DirtyBird222 said:

Adrian -- Chump went that route via Champ and it kind of bit them in the ass. They were allowing anything to race, placing those cars in EC, and giving them some penalty laps. People eventually complained when IMSA race cars started showing up to race people like me with $6000 race cars (that's car, parts, and misc fab included). I honestly didn't care; however, I see the validity in the complaints and having some restrictions.

I thought CHUMP/CHAMP kept the cheap stuff and formed AER for the high $$ stuff.

If I ever went racing again CHAMP interests me more than Lemons where utterly bizzae things like planes and boats or deliberatly lookng like E36 M3 is prized higher than anything else.  Having said that I'm not infomed enough to really pass comment.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn MegaDork
4/29/20 3:30 p.m.
KillermgBee said:

Anyone can buy a car but to fab something like this together on a shoestring budget and then actually race it is awesome, my hats off to him! 

A neat car, but I'm not so sure about that 'shoestring budget'...

dculberson (Forum Supporter)
dculberson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/29/20 3:37 p.m.
nimblemotorsports said:

No, Lemons WAS about $500 cars.  NOW it about being desperate to allow ANYTHING to race and pay the entry fees.   

No thanks, someone pooped in the sandbox with their $10,000 E36 M3can build.  Ain't playing anymore.

So how many Lemons races did you do before it "changed?" I'm guessing none. Some people get it, some don't. Sounds like you don't. That's fine, there are thousands of car guys that enjoy it and they've been doing well. I haven't been racing in a few years, Lemons or otherwise, thanks to two small kids at home. But when I do, I won't mind sharing a Lemons track with something like this. Why? Because as shown it's not going to DOMINATE like people seem to think. The judges know their stuff and they assign penalty laps to cars like this, despite 99.9% of the time them sucking on their first (and second, and fifth) outing. But it looks awesome, sounds amazing, and gets tons of positive attention from both car and non-car people.

Most of my time on track at Lemons has been in truly terrible cars, but I've been in and out of a ton of cars that people scoff at as "$500 car my ass" and the truth is you can build one heck of a true $500 machine within the Lemons rules. Even this is likely very truly a $500 machine if you consider the recoup possibilities. The builder has his own exotics salvage yard so he buys and sells high end junk all the time. Lemons don't have any restrictions on recoup that I know of. You could buy a $100,000 car, sell $99,500 in parts from it, and be legit $500 under their rules. The judges would probably still give you penalty laps, and if you complained about it they would give you more.

dculberson (Forum Supporter)
dculberson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/29/20 3:39 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:I thought CHUMP/CHAMP kept the cheap stuff and formed AER for the high $$ stuff.

If I ever went racing again CHAMP interests me more than Lemons where utterly bizzae things like planes and boats or deliberatly lookng like E36 M3 is prized higher than anything else.  Having said that I'm not infomed enough to really pass comment.

Champ is a separate org from AER. Champ abandoned the monetary cap and went to a "points" system. Engine swaps and upgrades and such cost a certain number of points and you're allowed only a certain number of those points. I haven't done a Champ race but did one AER race and really enjoyed it.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
4/29/20 4:47 p.m.
Ransom (Forum Supporter)
Ransom (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
4/29/20 4:56 p.m.

What are those wheels? Anybody know? I fear they could be actual Roller rollers, but I've no idea what model/era, and I'm hoping they're aftermarket...

slowbird
slowbird Dork
4/29/20 5:03 p.m.

The difference between Lemons and other series, in my opinion, is that other series are about super-competitive people trying to win races, and Lemons is about having fun with cars, yet still being super-competitive to some extent.

Hence the wacky themes and nonsensical engine swaps. It's not about trying to replicate IMSA on a budget; it's about building something cool and seeing if you can keep it from blowing up.

And for sure, there's room for both of those types of series in motorsports.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UberDork
4/29/20 5:06 p.m.
dculberson (Forum Supporter) said:
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:I thought CHUMP/CHAMP kept the cheap stuff and formed AER for the high $$ stuff.

If I ever went racing again CHAMP interests me more than Lemons where utterly bizzae things like planes and boats or deliberatly lookng like E36 M3 is prized higher than anything else.  Having said that I'm not infomed enough to really pass comment.

Champ is a separate org from AER. Champ abandoned the monetary cap and went to a "points" system. Engine swaps and upgrades and such cost a certain number of points and you're allowed only a certain number of those points. I haven't done a Champ race but did one AER race and really enjoyed it.

Champcar has had a points system for quite some time now. Everything is based on the points system and certain modificaitons or cars go right into the "EC" class which is kind of the unlimited class. For a couple of years Champ seemed to emphasize that class vs. the smaller classes that mostly abided by the rule book. People grumbled and now they have shifted their focuse back to those core classes instead of the uber fast EC cars. 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
4/29/20 5:21 p.m.

Jay also explain quite a bit here as well. 

 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
4/29/20 5:25 p.m.

In reply to stuart in mn :

Watch that first video I posted. That badass Viper motor has a ton of blowby. She smokes like a diesel. I woouldn't trust it for 100 miles. Nope.

JoeyM
JoeyM Mod Squad
4/29/20 5:26 p.m.
slowbird said:
Appleseed said:

$500 hunnert doolar, my ass. As Jay would say. That car will never win the race, so why worry?

Exactly this. The Lemons organizers want to see cool weird cars, and in cases like this, they aren't worried about it being fast or reliable, so they're happy to give some slack on the budget.

They just did a video about an Aston Martin that a guy got as a rolling shell, fabricated all the suspension mounting points etc. himself, and put a small block Ford in it. He even showed up and said "I know this is not a $500 car, please give me all the penalty laps you want, I just want to race an Aston Martin in Lemons"

So they did, and the car was terribly slow and didn't steer right, and it was awesome anyway because it's an Aston Martin in Lemons.

 

This is the content that I am here for...both the article about the viper powered rolls royce, and this comment that made me giggle maniacally 

buzzboy
buzzboy Dork
4/29/20 6:02 p.m.

An ex-aquaintance raced a few miatas in Chump and listening to him its about racing stock cars. Like, spending money to bring it back to fresh factory spec is encouraged, but allowing engine swaps and interesting engineering gets you penalized. Not sure if it's changed since then but the race I spectated at(Daytona 2014) appeared to be mostly nice examples of 80s/90s cars that are known to be good racecars. There were plenty of Miatas, Civics, 3rd/4th gen F bodies and the like.

Lemons is mostly still real racing. There are always going to be stupid cars(airplane) on track but it's still about racing. Letting a >500 car in doesn't hurt your chances of winning or change how much fun you're going to have. Letting people spend money to make their cars less reliable doesn't change who wins the race. Races are won by being fast, reliable and organized, not by bringing a ringer and getting penalty laps.

Patrick (Forum Supporter)
Patrick (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/29/20 6:15 p.m.

Fwiw cages aren't challenge budget free.  

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
4/29/20 6:37 p.m.

Challenge race car? $2,020, mah ass! laugh

noddaz
noddaz UltraDork
4/29/20 9:28 p.m.

That was funny.  I need to attend.

Yes I do.

 

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
4/29/20 10:10 p.m.
Appleseed said:

$500 hunnert doolar, my ass. As Jay would say. That car will never win the race, so why worry?

By the time you have the average $500 car on the track you've actual spent between $5&6000 and that's just running. Doesn't matter if it's a Old Honda or whatever. $5-6000
On top of that Careful  assembly of a stock engine  still is going to cost you gaskets and bearings rings and parts.   Plus the cost of a roll cage and safety gear, fuel cell, brakes and tires plus a set or two of spare tires rain tires. Spares in the trailer, a trailer , motorhome or tents, gas cans, air tank, air compressor,  helmets (x4-5 ) drivers suits, HANS device, coolers food drinks. Etc. 

even with careful purchasing the total investment can easily top $10,000+ to race a $500 car. 

Yes the second race is less and you might be able to shave some of those costs a little bit if you're willing to sleep in tents and eat hot dogs and potato chips. 
 

remarkably it's still massively cheaper than a SCCA regional race. Just because they don't want $500 cars entering. 

nimblemotorsports
nimblemotorsports HalfDork
4/29/20 11:13 p.m.

Why is this car featured here on GRM?   Because it has a Viper V10, which nobody else can possible build for $500 or even $5,000. 

So basically, if you want to get attention in Lemons you are competing against unlimited budget builds, that fact the build was a half-assed failure just made it more noteworthy.

In my view, the last decade of celebrated Stupidity is coming to a close, and that includes Lemons.

 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
4/29/20 11:52 p.m.

My take on LeMons is seat time. Where else can you get that amount of wheel to wheel time for that cheap? Not many. If you are hyper-competitive and like combing through a rulebook and protesting, there are scads of SCCA classes to participate in. 

Shadeux (Forum Supporter)
Shadeux (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/30/20 6:24 a.m.
Ransom (Forum Supporter) said:

What are those wheels? Anybody know? I fear they could be actual Roller rollers, but I've no idea what model/era, and I'm hoping they're aftermarket...

I need to know about the wheels also. Really neat looking.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
4/30/20 7:56 a.m.

The crushing of cars at lemons events kept things under control budget wise. When that stopped so did the original spirit of lemons and it became a race to spend money in ways that does not get caught. 
 

Back when it started you would never put decent parts in a lemons car. As soon as the crushing of cars went away we started to see thousands of $$ spent on suspensions that was hidden by black paint and undercoat. Or better yet the use of strut inserts is a great way to hide high end components. 
 

It became a different series but the masses seem to like it. 

dculberson (Forum Supporter)
dculberson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/30/20 10:02 a.m.
Appleseed said:

My take on LeMons is seat time. Where else can you get that amount of wheel to wheel time for that cheap? Not many. If you are hyper-competitive and like combing through a rulebook and protesting, there are scads of SCCA classes to participate in. 

Exactly this. I can go to a Lemons race and typically for less than $1000 all in, get 5 hours of actual seat time. Not many other series offer value per hour like that. And the racing is actual racing - very few cars are out there just puttering along.

iansane (Forum Supporter)
iansane (Forum Supporter) New Reader
4/30/20 10:15 a.m.
Shadeux (Forum Supporter) said:
Ransom (Forum Supporter) said:

What are those wheels? Anybody know? I fear they could be actual Roller rollers, but I've no idea what model/era, and I'm hoping they're aftermarket...

I need to know about the wheels also. Really neat looking.

 Early 5th gen camaro wheels, I think.

ebelements
ebelements Reader
4/30/20 10:27 a.m.

Seeing as he's from detroit, I would assume he worked something out with Mobsteel/Detroit Steel Wheels. They would blow the budget on their own.

https://detroitsteelwheel.com/

Toyman01 (Forum Supporter)
Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/30/20 10:29 a.m.
nimblemotorsports said:

No, Lemons WAS about $500 cars.  NOW it about being desperate to allow ANYTHING to race and pay the entry fees.   

No thanks, someone pooped in the sandbox with their $10,000 E36 M3can build.  Ain't playing anymore.

If you are there for the racing or worried that someone might be cheating, you are at the wrong event. 

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UberDork
4/30/20 10:39 a.m.

All of this talk about Champ, Lemons, and the Challenge made me hit the books last night. My Champcar Accord is GRM Challenge worthy. $200 for the car, $500 engine swap, $100 in homemade aero, $40 homemade CAI, $30 junkyard catback, $500 in raw roll cage materials, and about $600 in suspension components. Everything else falls within the guidelines of safety. Maybe we'll enter it this year if the event happens and throw some NO2 in it for the drag event. 

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/30/20 10:56 a.m.
ebelements said:

Seeing as he's from detroit, I would assume he worked something out with Mobsteel/Detroit Steel Wheels. They would blow the budget on their own.

https://detroitsteelwheel.com/

I thought wheels were budget exempt as they are safety items?

ebelements
ebelements Reader
4/30/20 11:42 a.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

I honestly don't know the rules, just that for a set of steels the DSWs carry a pretty hefty pricetag.

nimblemotorsports
nimblemotorsports HalfDork
4/30/20 2:03 p.m.

On the west coast, Lucky Dog is "budget racing without the bull" that is less expensive than Lemons without all the fake rules. 

I note also the Viper Rolls was not only WAY WAY over the advertised budget it also broke their 4200lb weight limit safety rules.  Nice.   

Lucky Dog is essentially bracket racing, they have no pretend fake budget limits.    I have my complaints about LD too..  :)

Lemons is also about getting attention, not just performance, so we compete for that also, we need an Aston or viper v10 to get attention now?

 

 

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/30/20 2:58 p.m.

Dang, I'm losing it.  I could swear I posted this earlier today, but I don't see it.

People are complaining about this build.  Wasn't there someone on here a few years ago who did find a ratty old Rolls for something like $500 who was intending to bring it to the challenge, or possibly lemons.  I think it was three pedal racing.  

Five min later edit. So I found it, it was three pedal mafia, not racing.  Here's the thread

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/3-pedal-mafias-24-hours-of-lemons-rolls-royce-silv/59120/page3/

It died so I don't know if they ever raced it.  Note the lack of hate in that thread.  Oh, and it was seven years ago.  Ouch.

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
4/30/20 3:19 p.m.
Appleseed said:

My take on LeMons is seat time. Where else can you get that amount of wheel to wheel time for that cheap? Not many. If you are hyper-competitive and like combing through a rulebook and protesting, there are scads of SCCA classes to participate in. 

I approach racing differently. I like building something with my own two hands and going wheel to wheel racing.  LeMons and Chump car  seemed like a perfect fit. 
What I hate is having to share it with  othe people who have nothing but their cash in it.  Out on a track with others of the same deal. 

Oops I destroyed,  broke, or bent your car. Sorry. See ya. And you need guys like that because you can't enter without them.  
 

It would be nice if all 4 guys had the same hours in the car and could do  the work properly but that just doesn't happen except in rare instances. 
 

I think they need to add an event. A short 20-30 minute track session for a modest entry fee. Let old geezers like me and new guys  or guys with new cars tip their toes in the water. New guys who don't want to be passed in a corner could  put a big X. On their trunk where the number would be. 
 

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie New Reader
4/30/20 3:29 p.m.

How much is the shell of an old Rolls Royce really worth? I'm sure he made a lot of money just selling off the leather covered pieces of the interior. This thing looks gutted to me. If this guy is in the salvage business, I would imagine he would send the shell to the crusher after he pulled off everything of value. Why not make it a race car instead? The Viper engine might be another story, but what if he used a sbc instead? 

dculberson (Forum Supporter)
dculberson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/30/20 3:36 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

They did race the Rolls and won IOE with it. It was slow and terrible on track but they got it reliable-ish enough to make a ton of laps. Sonic has lots to say about unnecessarily complex Rolls Royces. 

There are always a lot of sour grapes about Lemons (hmm, lemons, sour?) for some reason. Most of the people that complain have never and were never going to race in Lemons. They just seem to like to armchair quarterback someone else's race series. 
 

@frenchy: it is hard to build up a reliable team of guys with money and drive and know how, no doubt about that. Harder than coming up with a rolls Royce shell and dodge engine for $500 that's for sure. 

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
4/30/20 3:43 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:
ebelements said:

Seeing as he's from detroit, I would assume he worked something out with Mobsteel/Detroit Steel Wheels. They would blow the budget on their own.

https://detroitsteelwheel.com/

I thought wheels were budget exempt as they are safety items?

You can replace wheels up to the list price of original equipment wheels.  I don't remember if that''s  currant pricing or not. 

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
4/30/20 4:01 p.m.
dculberson (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

They did race the Rolls and won IOE with it. It was slow and terrible on track but they got it reliable-ish enough to make a ton of laps. Sonic has lots to say about unnecessarily complex Rolls Royces. 

There are always a lot of sour grapes about Lemons (hmm, lemons, sour?) for some reason. Most of the people that complain have never and were never going to race in Lemons. They just seem to like to armchair quarterback someone else's race series. 
 

@frenchy: it is hard to build up a reliable team of guys with money and drive and know how, no doubt about that. Harder than coming up with a rolls Royce shell and dodge engine for $500 that's for sure. 

When Chump car Racing first started I got all excited. built a XJS V12 and goober klutzed it to work with two junk Saab turbo's.  I  documented I was actually under the $500 limit. Not quite done I went to one of their  events to watch and talk to tech guys etc. 

I recognized the signs of novice drivers but the junky Jag wasn't that nice anyway.   However talking to their tech inspectors I found out about  penalty laps and calculating the fuel mileage penalty  I calculated 2-3 extra pit stops of 5 minutes each.  Then they started with talk about crushing cars  and I gave up.

One of the guys who was real eager to join me made me an offer for the car high enough so I came pretty close to breaking even. He just wanted it for the street.   

I reconsidered when they changed the rules and bought my currant XJS  but just can't strip it out.  It's too nice. Almost worth street driving it myself.  But power to weight is 17-1. With a automatic and a 2:88-1 final drive.  If I strip it out and don't put a cage in  with a few minor engine mods I can be near 10-1  but it will be a gutted out car.   The transmission will be that Seinz 5 speed dog ring. Quick ratio change and a 3:54-1   But Dog rings require foot flat to the floor shifting.   Not exactly streetable. 
Does that make me a Poseur?  Track day events?   They are plenty expensive for not really being able to race.  

newrider3
newrider3 New Reader
4/30/20 4:04 p.m.
nimblemotorsports said:

Why is this car featured here on GRM?   Because it has a Viper V10, which nobody else can possible build for $500 or even $5,000. 

So basically, if you want to get attention in Lemons you are competing against unlimited budget builds, that fact the build was a half-assed failure just made it more noteworthy.

In my view, the last decade of celebrated Stupidity is coming to a close, and that includes Lemons.

 

Weird, because I managed to get the same type of feature by welding random E36 M3 onto my Lemons car and by junkyard shopping and buying cheap Craigslist donors. I can guarantee we have never built a Lemons car on an "unlimited" budget, and the judges love what we do. 

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/meet-1uz-powered-volvo-940-wagon/

 

I wholeheartedly disagree that the end of the People's Curse "ruined" Lemons. In fact, I would've been far less likely to ever start in the first place if that practice were still a thing. Sure, we get 1 to 2 "real racer" dinguses per race who normally run in more expensive series who drive and act like they're better than everyone else because they're "serious racers", but they're in the minority, and I don't go to the track to pay attention to them anyway. We race Lemons to build fun stuff and see other people build fun stuff, and to party and hang out with likeminded builders/backyard engineers/racers. 

 

dculberson (Forum Supporter) said:

There are always a lot of sour grapes about Lemons (hmm, lemons, sour?) for some reason. Most of the people that complain have never and were never going to race in Lemons. They just seem to like to armchair quarterback someone else's race series. 

Quoted for truth.

Honestly, if you feel in your heart that Chump/Lucky Dog/whoever is better Real Racing(tm), please, go there, stay out of Lemons because your attitude makes it less fun for the rest of us. 

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UberDork
4/30/20 4:37 p.m.

newrider - I originally built my Accord to go race in Lemons. The charade of catering to misfits fit my liking as did the creativity and wild designs of those who entered. While building my car they decided to stop having events in Florida and just traveling to one of their venues meant two extra days of time off to attend so we focused our efforts on Chump. A bit more serious but the foundations are similar enough. The more I've raced with Chu(a)mp, the more I've grown to love it, and the less I've even cared to run in Lemons. I've been to plenty of Lemons events, it's cultish and somewhat cold to outsiders but they are fun. I prefer more competitiveness in racing than it seems to enforce in it's ideals but to each their own. 

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
4/30/20 5:19 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Dang, I'm losing it.  I could swear I posted this earlier today, but I don't see it.

People are complaining about this build.  Wasn't there someone on here a few years ago who did find a ratty old Rolls for something like $500 who was intending to bring it to the challenge, or possibly lemons.  I think it was three pedal racing.  

Five min later edit. So I found it, it was three pedal mafia, not racing.  Here's the thread

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/3-pedal-mafias-24-hours-of-lemons-rolls-royce-silv/59120/page3/

It died so I don't know if they ever raced it.  Note the lack of hate in that thread.  Oh, and it was seven years ago.  Ouch.

They were crushing cars 7 years ago

Sonic
Sonic UltraDork
4/30/20 6:15 p.m.
dean1484 said:
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Dang, I'm losing it.  I could swear I posted this earlier today, but I don't see it.

People are complaining about this build.  Wasn't there someone on here a few years ago who did find a ratty old Rolls for something like $500 who was intending to bring it to the challenge, or possibly lemons.  I think it was three pedal racing.  

Five min later edit. So I found it, it was three pedal mafia, not racing.  Here's the thread

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/3-pedal-mafias-24-hours-of-lemons-rolls-royce-silv/59120/page3/

It died so I don't know if they ever raced it.  Note the lack of hate in that thread.  Oh, and it was seven years ago.  Ouch.

They were crushing cars 7 years ago

That was me and my team.  We left the car completely stock.  It was wonderful, and terrible, at the same time.  We had our fun and sold the car on down the road.  

 

 Our team has run the table from terrible (Rolls, Citroen SM), to wacky (Sea Sprite boat on an S10 chassis that came as high as 20th overall), to actually fast and good (swapped Civic, 3.8 RX7, Cressida) and have many top 10 finishes and fast lap of the race.   The fun is that no matter what you are driving, there is someone to race.  I can assure you that at the pointy end of the field where we are now, the racing is very competitive, but if one of those teams break, we are right there to help give them a part or tool or extra hand.  The community is unlike any other series I have seen.  

dculberson (Forum Supporter)
dculberson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/30/20 9:23 p.m.

In reply to dean1484 :

The last crushed car was 10 years ago. I was there. The crushed car was a volunteered Bradley gt. The cars owner hated it and said - please crush this thing. Other than that they haven't done the people's curse in over a decade. There have been way more lemons races since they eliminated it than there were with it. 

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
4/30/20 9:57 p.m.
nimblemotorsports said:

Why is this car featured here on GRM?   Because it has a Viper V10, which nobody else can possible build for $500 or even $5,000. 

So basically, if you want to get attention in Lemons you are competing against unlimited budget builds, that fact the build was a half-assed failure just made it more noteworthy.

In my view, the last decade of celebrated Stupidity is coming to a close, and that includes Lemons.

 

I've seen  some decent or interesting cars go for cheap.   Not every day or well marketed but real legitimate sales. Back in the Grey market days  cars that couldn't be licensed or insured would quietly  be sold for disgustingly cheap money.  
Since tittles are not required for race cars  some would naturally wind up there. 
A Rolls Royce is a Uber expensive car to restore  and  given the manner they typically are driven and rarity it's extremely unlikely a body shop would go junkyard shopping for a front clip.  
     Frankly who would want a ratty, rusty old Rolls Royce?  I mean it would be cool to have a Rolls Royce hubcap or Grill hanging on my garage wall but I wouldn't know where to go shopping for one would you?  Plus chances are whoever has it is going to ask silly money for something that will simply collect dust. 
Can't you imagine a restoration shop stuck with a car that needs 10's of thousands of dollars  worth of work and the over extended owner simply gives up on it?  What now?  Mechanics lien on something that needs more than it's worth?  

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
4/30/20 10:57 p.m.
dculberson (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to dean1484 :

The last crushed car was 10 years ago. I was there. The crushed car was a volunteered Bradley gt. The cars owner hated it and said - please crush this thing. Other than that they haven't done the people's curse in over a decade. There have been way more lemons races since they eliminated it than there were with it. 

And your point is?  They crushed cars as late as 2014. The last race I was at (and we won) was the first race after the rule change. My point is that with the people's curse in place it kept the spending in check. As soon as it was stopped the spending started. It does not mean that it has not been a successful series post the people's curse. But it is in my mind the event that changed the series from what it started out as and what it is today

JoeyM
JoeyM Mod Squad
4/30/20 11:00 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

I seem to remember a top gear episode where Clarkson drove a rolls into a swimming pool.  I'm sure it was a similar situation.

Sonic
Sonic UltraDork
4/30/20 11:12 p.m.

In reply to dean1484 :

We must have been there, and may have met.  Which team were you on?  
 

One other point, for some people like the builder of the V10 Rolls, Lemons is a creative outlet for them to build something that makes them happy, even if it isn't "competitive".  In that way it is very similar to the GRM Challenge, where 2/3 of the field is happy to make what they want to and can make and be part of the action, fully knowing they are not going to win anything, just because they find it fun.  (3x challenge competitor here from pointy end to mid pack from $2002-$2012). 

nimblemotorsports
nimblemotorsports HalfDork
5/1/20 12:40 a.m.

Lemons allows any car to run, being a Rolls was not an issue, except the car weight which I think is a serious issue for the safety of everyone else.

The issue is using a Viper V10 motor.   A Viper V10 is not just super expensive,  it isn't "spirit of lemons", which is racing junk not supposed to be raced.  A stock Rolls, THAT is Lemony.  But you can even run a LS-powered Miata in Lemons, they  just give you penalty laps, like the Billion the Aston got.   

The V8 Miata with the Caddy V8 is an example of Lemons awesomeness.  Taking something NOT supposed to go fast, and making it do so. 

Taking a V10 and make it barely run?   Then win Organizers Choice award?     

 

Toyman01 (Forum Supporter)
Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/1/20 7:31 a.m.

In reply to nimblemotorsports :

Again, I think you are mistaken about the spirit of Lemons. Anything ridiculous belongs in Lemons no matter the actual price of the vehicle. There is Zero chance a V10 powered Rolls is going to win so why worry about how much the guy spent bringing it to the track. Just be glad you get to witness the carnage.

The spirit of Lemons isn't about fast cars. It isn't about racing. It isn't about $500 cars. It's about a group of people coming together to have a fun time with cars at a race track. Think of the rules, beyond safety, as more of guidelines. Winning the race is a distant 3rd or 4th on the scale of importance. They give their biggest trophy not to the fastest car, but to the most ridiculous car and fun team at the track. 

If you want to race were the rules are important and followed, might I suggest the SCCA. I have literally wallpapered a Lemons car with the GCR and had many pages left over. #funwithrules 

Or NASA. Pretty sure they are cranking up a budget team endurance series. 

If you are all about the race, don't race Lemons. Try the above recommendations. 

If you want to follow a strict budget, don't race Lemons. Hit up the Challenge. 

There are lots of options out there for just about everyone that want's to get on a racetrack. If Lemons isn't it, find one you enjoy and ignore the drunk, stupid people over here in the corner. wink

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/1/20 8:14 a.m.

I'm surprised people are so pissed about this.  Let's stop saying it's Rolls with a Viper engine.  Instead let's reframe it for what it is.  Its the remains of an old British sedan shell that has everything useful stripped off.  It's got a Live Ford rear axle, it's got Chevy front frame rails and suspension with a smoking Fiat truck engine.  Does that sound better to the haters?

BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter)
BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
5/1/20 8:44 a.m.

I think it’s totally in the Spirit of Lemons. It’s an absurd chassis stuffed with an absurd (for the application) engine.

Cooter
Cooter UberDork
5/1/20 8:54 a.m.
GIRTHQUAKE said:

Yeah, and the creator Darko has spent FAR more than just a couple thousand on this monster.

Also, those V10 truck motors only share the bottom end. I think even the water pump is different from the truck to the Viper.

The SRT-10 Ram engine is NOT the same engine as the cast iron Ram V10 in the regular models.

 

Person Who Swapped a Viper Srt10 in Place of a  RAM SRT-10 said:  

The engine itself is the same. The exhaust manifolds are different, the oil pan and pickup are different, the water outlet is different, the throttle body (linkage) is different, motor mounts are different, and the wiring harness is different. All of the accessory drive is the same with the exception of a milled 'flat' with a threaded hole in it, on the upper idler pulley boss for a wire retaining tab.




As for Darko, I have known him for over a decade, going back to some offroad forums I moderated.     He runs a salvage business, and gets all sorts of stuff for dirty cheap.   $500 cAr?  Of course not, but cheaper than many here may think.

volvoclearinghouse (Forum Supporter)
volvoclearinghouse (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
5/1/20 9:02 a.m.

As per the weight thing, we requested (and got) a weight waiver to run our 1975 Ford LTD Landau.  The weight rule is just to act as a check- they don't want someone running an F350 dually jacked up 6" so the front bumper is at the helmet of a Miata driver.  It's easy- you want to run a truck, or a rolls, or an ambulance- you just write to LeMons HQ, you tell them what you want to do, and how it's not going to be a rolling missile for everyone else on the track, and they'll generally be good with it.  There's still the safety inspection at each race that every car has to pass.  So if someone shows up with something dangerous, it won't be allowed on track. 

We've run the whole gamut of what's considered cars in the "spirit" of LeMons- from a bone-stock but caged Volvo 122 to the crazy contraction called "Plymford" that I cobbled together from the above-mentioned LTD and the rusty relic of a 1951 Plymouth.  It doesn't take extraordinary amounts of money- it takes creativity, imagination, skill, and the willingness and ability to plan and execute- plus organize a few other people with you to help out and drive.  Trust me, we do this on a very shoe-stringy budget, and we have still gotten plenty of LeMons coverage.  Google "Tunachuckers" sometime. 

Here, I'll start, with this...

 

 

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/1/20 9:35 a.m.

Do you guys with Lemons/Chu(a)mp experience have links to some decent builds?  Not the outrageous and wild stuff like planes or even the Plymford (read every word and loved it).  But a decent starter build on a regular(ish) easily available car so some of us outsiders can see what a reasonable first effort would entail and cost?

 

 

Toyman01 (Forum Supporter)
Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/1/20 9:37 a.m.
volvoclearinghouse (Forum Supporter) said:

 

Here, I'll start, with this...

Happy to say the S.C.C.A. (Senior Citizens Club of America) and the GCR papered Civic made that write-up as well. 

Klayfish
Klayfish PowerDork
5/1/20 10:06 a.m.
Sonic said:
dean1484 said:
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Dang, I'm losing it.  I could swear I posted this earlier today, but I don't see it.

People are complaining about this build.  Wasn't there someone on here a few years ago who did find a ratty old Rolls for something like $500 who was intending to bring it to the challenge, or possibly lemons.  I think it was three pedal racing.  

Five min later edit. So I found it, it was three pedal mafia, not racing.  Here's the thread

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/3-pedal-mafias-24-hours-of-lemons-rolls-royce-silv/59120/page3/

It died so I don't know if they ever raced it.  Note the lack of hate in that thread.  Oh, and it was seven years ago.  Ouch.

They were crushing cars 7 years ago

That was me and my team.  We left the car completely stock.  It was wonderful, and terrible, at the same time.  We had our fun and sold the car on down the road.  

 

 Our team has run the table from terrible (Rolls, Citroen SM), to wacky (Sea Sprite boat on an S10 chassis that came as high as 20th overall), to actually fast and good (swapped Civic, 3.8 RX7, Cressida) and have many top 10 finishes and fast lap of the race.   The fun is that no matter what you are driving, there is someone to race.  I can assure you that at the pointy end of the field where we are now, the racing is very competitive, but if one of those teams break, we are right there to help give them a part or tool or extra hand.  The community is unlike any other series I have seen.  

All of this exactly.  Yes, I'm likely to agree with Sonic because we're teammates.  However, I was coming in here to literally say the same thing....which is why everyone on our team gets along so well, we're all of the same mind.

I have had the privilege to race something like 30 Lemons events now.  I don't know how many other people in the country (or world for that matter) can lay claim to the things I've gotten to do on a racetrack.  I've raced a true nearly bone stock Rolls Royce, a Citroen SM, a truck with a literal boat body on it.  Those were the "slow" cars.  Built for IOE and each one won it.  The boat was actually faster than it had a right to be.  As Sonic said, it finished as high as 20th, and for years was never "in the way" as it was respectably fast.  Oh, and how many people can say they got to rollerblade around a paddock while being pulled by a boat...just like water skiing on land, LOL.  I've also been on the pointy end of the field, having driven a bunch of different class B and now class A cars.  I'm currently a driver of the Cressida that Sonic mentioned.  It never sets fastest lap of the race, but it's fast enough to be at the top end of the fied, is dead nuts consistent and reliable.  It constantly finishes top 10, and has been as high as 4th overall.  At that end of the field, I can assure you the racing is "real" and is real competitive.  We're not out there for a Sunday drive.  No matter what I was driving, I always found someone to "race" with.  LeMons is also a community.  While we do race and race hard, we're there to have a good time.  But at the end of the day, we don't take ourselves too seriously.  It's great to go to the track and see people you only see a few times a year and enjoy laughs with them.  These friends are the first to help another team out if they need it, even if they are in direct competition.  I suppose either you "get" LeMons or you don't.  I totally get it and am addicted. 

I've also been fortunate enough to have the opportunity to work on the staff of LeMons at a race last year.  I enjoyed it just about as much as being in the race and can tell you the staff at LeMons is just as awesome as the people who race it.  They take the safety of the competitors VERY seriously, but still remember we're all there to have a great time. 

Greg Smith (Forum Supporter)
Greg Smith (Forum Supporter) Dork
5/1/20 10:08 a.m.
DirtyBird222 said:

All of this talk about Champ, Lemons, and the Challenge made me hit the books last night. My Champcar Accord is GRM Challenge worthy. $200 for the car, $500 engine swap, $100 in homemade aero, $40 homemade CAI, $30 junkyard catback, $500 in raw roll cage materials, and about $600 in suspension components. Everything else falls within the guidelines of safety. Maybe we'll enter it this year if the event happens and throw some NO2 in it for the drag event. 

DO IT!!

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UberDork
5/1/20 10:28 a.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Do you guys with Lemons/Chu(a)mp experience have links to some decent builds?  Not the outrageous and wild stuff like planes or even the Plymford (read every word and loved it).  But a decent starter build on a regular(ish) easily available car so some of us outsiders can see what a reasonable first effort would entail and cost?

 

 

My facebook group for my raceteam just had a "post pictures up that you have of the car over the years" thread. I will start a build thread. We built a 94 Accord - easily available, kind of obscure, accepts parts from the NSX, Odyssey, Acura CLs, and JDM/EDM Accords. (you know those badass Accords that raced in BTCC??? I hope you do). 

We got into our first chumprace at under $6000. We did get a few freebies from some local sponsors...sometimes it pays to have a good salesman on your team. Also the Arduino shift lights I made - arduinos don't like endurance racing at all. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
5/1/20 10:52 a.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to nimblemotorsports :

So how do you really feel?

I know what you mean, but it's the nature of competition.  Forget that, its the nature of reality.  Look at the $20xx challenge.  It started as the $1,500 challenge, then became the $20xx challenge.  Then safety items were allowed, than replacement brake parts, then tires, then roll cages etc.  Now it's the $20xx challenge plus an additional $1-3K in 'free' stuff.  That's part of why I think they should remove the budget cap and I bet the challenge would still be just as cool.  Just replaced the year cost cap with a BS score.  Same with LeMons and Chump.  It's just not practical to have an artificial cap.  A $500 Rolls is perfectly feasible if you're in the RR or scrap business, but not if you're a regular person.  Hell even a $500 econobox buys something very different here in the rust belt compared to desert areas.  To me this car is more in the spirit of the rules than a pro built $500 Miata with some wicked hidden E36 M3 underneath.

To clarify a common misconception, the $2000 Challenge has no exceptions for cages or blanket safety items. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
5/1/20 10:59 a.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Do you guys with Lemons/Chu(a)mp experience have links to some decent builds?  Not the outrageous and wild stuff like planes or even the Plymford (read every word and loved it).  But a decent starter build on a regular(ish) easily available car so some of us outsiders can see what a reasonable first effort would entail and cost?

 

Yes, we're in the middle of one right now: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/1993-volkswagen-fox/

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/1/20 11:02 a.m.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

YEah, read all of that one thx.

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
5/1/20 11:06 a.m.
Klayfish said:
Sonic said:
dean1484 said:
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Dang, I'm losing it.  I could swear I posted this earlier today, but I don't see it.

People are complaining about this build.  Wasn't there someone on here a few years ago who did find a ratty old Rolls for something like $500 who was intending to bring it to the challenge, or possibly lemons.  I think it was three pedal racing.  

Five min later edit. So I found it, it was three pedal mafia, not racing.  Here's the thread

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/3-pedal-mafias-24-hours-of-lemons-rolls-royce-silv/59120/page3/

It died so I don't know if they ever raced it.  Note the lack of hate in that thread.  Oh, and it was seven years ago.  Ouch.

They were crushing cars 7 years ago

That was me and my team.  We left the car completely stock.  It was wonderful, and terrible, at the same time.  We had our fun and sold the car on down the road.  

 

 Our team has run the table from terrible (Rolls, Citroen SM), to wacky (Sea Sprite boat on an S10 chassis that came as high as 20th overall), to actually fast and good (swapped Civic, 3.8 RX7, Cressida) and have many top 10 finishes and fast lap of the race.   The fun is that no matter what you are driving, there is someone to race.  I can assure you that at the pointy end of the field where we are now, the racing is very competitive, but if one of those teams break, we are right there to help give them a part or tool or extra hand.  The community is unlike any other series I have seen.  

All of this exactly.  Yes, I'm likely to agree with Sonic because we're teammates.  However, I was coming in here to literally say the same thing....which is why everyone on our team gets along so well, we're all of the same mind.

I have had the privilege to race something like 30 Lemons events now.  I don't know how many other people in the country (or world for that matter) can lay claim to the things I've gotten to do on a racetrack.  I've raced a true nearly bone stock Rolls Royce, a Citroen SM, a truck with a literal boat body on it.  Those were the "slow" cars.  Built for IOE and each one won it.  The boat was actually faster than it had a right to be.  As Sonic said, it finished as high as 20th, and for years was never "in the way" as it was respectably fast.  Oh, and how many people can say they got to rollerblade around a paddock while being pulled by a boat...just like water skiing on land, LOL.  I've also been on the pointy end of the field, having driven a bunch of different class B and now class A cars.  I'm currently a driver of the Cressida that Sonic mentioned.  It never sets fastest lap of the race, but it's fast enough to be at the top end of the fied, is dead nuts consistent and reliable.  It constantly finishes top 10, and has been as high as 4th overall.  At that end of the field, I can assure you the racing is "real" and is real competitive.  We're not out there for a Sunday drive.  No matter what I was driving, I always found someone to "race" with.  LeMons is also a community.  While we do race and race hard, we're there to have a good time.  But at the end of the day, we don't take ourselves too seriously.  It's great to go to the track and see people you only see a few times a year and enjoy laughs with them.  These friends are the first to help another team out if they need it, even if they are in direct competition.  I suppose either you "get" LeMons or you don't.  I totally get it and am addicted. 

I've also been fortunate enough to have the opportunity to work on the staff of LeMons at a race last year.  I enjoyed it just about as much as being in the race and can tell you the staff at LeMons is just as awesome as the people who race it.  They take the safety of the competitors VERY seriously, but still remember we're all there to have a great time. 

That's exactly what Vintage racing started out to be. A fun weekend for car collectors to drive their cars as they were intended to be driven.  The age limit was in place to keep newer cars from joining and spoiling the fun. 
my first race had a entry fee of $10. And was basically the lunch time event so corner workers could take a break. 
they asked us to either remove or tape over our license plate since so many of us drove our cars. 
we borrowed helmets and driver suits.  Plus fire extinguishers and seat belts.  No roll bars so shoulder harnesses were not allowed. 
 

Toyman01 (Forum Supporter)
Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/1/20 11:38 a.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Do you guys with Lemons/Chu(a)mp experience have links to some decent builds?  Not the outrageous and wild stuff like planes or even the Plymford (read every word and loved it).  But a decent starter build on a regular(ish) easily available car so some of us outsiders can see what a reasonable first effort would entail and cost?

The S.C.C.A Oldies 2019 Lemons build.

The S.C.C.A. Oldies 2020, The Dirtsons Strike Again. 

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UberDork
5/1/20 1:01 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Do you guys with Lemons/Chu(a)mp experience have links to some decent builds?  Not the outrageous and wild stuff like planes or even the Plymford (read every word and loved it).  But a decent starter build on a regular(ish) easily available car so some of us outsiders can see what a reasonable first effort would entail and cost?

 

 

Here you go https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/my-1994-honda-accord-champcar-build/171906/page1/#post2998884

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/1/20 1:29 p.m.

In reply to Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) :

Cheers.  REading time

 

In reply to DirtyBird222 :

Thx, I wondered why I hadn't seen that one before.  New thread today!!!

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/1/20 1:30 p.m.

Serious Q.  Does any organization run something similar to the Champ/LeMons concept that isn't endurance.  Events for single driver cars less than an hour in duration?  

nimblemotorsports
nimblemotorsports HalfDork
5/1/20 1:36 p.m.

This is my Lemons car, the Mazdamaro, which is for sale btw.   We had our fun with it.  Next will be something to Champ rules.  Would love it if GRM had a west coast event.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UberDork
5/1/20 1:44 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Serious Q.  Does any organization run something similar to the Champ/LeMons concept that isn't endurance.  Events for single driver cars less than an hour in duration?  

I believe the SCCA was looking into something for these crapcan enduros but it's been met with mixed feelings throughout the regions. Central Florida Region has been offering some open class racing lately. 

accordionfolder
accordionfolder Dork
5/1/20 1:51 p.m.

NCM does the King of the Heap series - which by all accounts is a hilarious, fun event.

https://www.motorsportspark.org/events/king-of-the-heap/all/

The spec tire is "Uniroyal Tiger Paw Touring" - lol

 

 

 

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
5/1/20 2:49 p.m.

Was it Lemons that used to crush a car at the end to keep the rest honest? "Spectators Choice" or some such?

 

 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
5/1/20 4:37 p.m.

In reply to nimblemotorsports :

That 4th gen nose works disturbingly well with an MX-3. Disturbingly.

Mndsm
Mndsm MegaDork
5/1/20 5:28 p.m.

In reply to NOHOME :

Yeah, they called it the people's curse. They did away with it a while ago- I think people were getting mad at some of the cars chosen, they weren't always the cheatiest. 

Toyman01 (Forum Supporter)
Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/1/20 5:54 p.m.

In reply to Mndsm :

Yep, usually the ones driven by shiny happy people.

KillermgBee
KillermgBee New Reader
5/5/20 10:56 a.m.
stuart in mn said:
KillermgBee said:

Anyone can buy a car but to fab something like this together on a shoestring budget and then actually race it is awesome, my hats off to him! 

A neat car, but I'm not so sure about that 'shoestring budget'...

I guess what I meant by that was he built it himself with what he could find , didn't order bolt on stuff from a catalog and have a speed shop build it. He tried several times before he got it to work correctly 

 

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
5/5/20 11:15 a.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Serious Q.  Does any organization run something similar to the Champ/LeMons concept that isn't endurance.  Events for single driver cars less than an hour in duration?  

Building a race car for me is a 2000 + hour task.  The idea of putting that much labor and having to share that with other drivers who have nothing more than  money invested  on a track with other drivers with nothing more invested is offensive.  
Out of self defense a person is required to  use a mild cheaply available motor and an automatic transmission ( since fewer and fewer drivers can operate a clutch ). 
 

One person for short sprint races would introduce a whole lot of new drivers to the sport. 5 lap races. Maybe with the top finishers entered for a 20 lP feature race should be something clubs should  look into.
Keep the buy in low. Say 20 years old limited to normally aspirated 2 liters or smaller with automatics, 30 years old allow bigger motors 40 years old allow some mild ( Non power adding) modification 

All cars have High tread wear tires,   with required safety equipment. 
 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
5/5/20 12:40 p.m.
Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Mndsm :

Yep, usually the ones driven by shiny happy people.

I noticed a team or two changed driving styles after the people’s curse was awarded at Nelson Ledges a long time ago.  Pretty sure at least one team had been sandbagging pretty heavily beforehand.

dculberson (Forum Supporter)
dculberson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/5/20 2:19 p.m.

In reply to eastsideTim :

It's hard to believe that was over 10 years ago.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
5/5/20 2:30 p.m.
dculberson (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to eastsideTim :

It's hard to believe that was over 10 years ago.

Yikes!  It was, wasn't it?

 

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UberDork
5/5/20 3:43 p.m.
frenchyd said:
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Serious Q.  Does any organization run something similar to the Champ/LeMons concept that isn't endurance.  Events for single driver cars less than an hour in duration?  

Building a race car for me is a 2000 + hour task.  The idea of putting that much labor and having to share that with other drivers who have nothing more than  money invested  on a track with other drivers with nothing more invested is offensive.  
Out of self defense a person is required to  use a mild cheaply available motor and an automatic transmission ( since fewer and fewer drivers can operate a clutch ). 
 

One person for short sprint races would introduce a whole lot of new drivers to the sport. 5 lap races. Maybe with the top finishers entered for a 20 lP feature race should be something clubs should  look into.
Keep the buy in low. Say 20 years old limited to normally aspirated 2 liters or smaller with automatics, 30 years old allow bigger motors 40 years old allow some mild ( Non power adding) modification 

All cars have High tread wear tires,   with required safety equipment. 
 

2000+ hours of labor for a 5 lap race. Might as well just go drag racing or cars and coffee show hopping. If you're worried about possibly wadding your car up in a race you're in the wrong sport, it's an inherent risk you take and forgetting to tighten a lug nut could inflict just as much damage to your car as an "arrive and drive" driver. 

Toyman01 (Forum Supporter)
Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/5/20 4:55 p.m.
eastsideTim said:
dculberson (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to eastsideTim :

It's hard to believe that was over 10 years ago.

Yikes!  It was, wasn't it?

 

Our first run was in 2008. 12 years ago. Managed to trophy that one too. Most likely to go home in a Ambulance. 

Good memories. This is the year I started hanging out with Curmudgeon and on GRM.

#65, Team Animal House

Illustration for article titled The 24 Hours Of LeMons South 2008 Uber Gallery


You can be proud when your team wins the Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance trophy at the 24 Hours of LeMons, and that's just what Team Animal House did with their Fox Thunderbird. Note the Deathmobile fins and portrait of Chief Perpetrator Jay Lamm as hood ornament.

From here. https://jalopnik.com/the-24-hours-of-lemons-south-2008-uber-gallery-399755

engiekev
engiekev Reader
5/6/20 8:28 a.m.

Darko is a cool cat.  After Radwood Detroit we met up with for drinks near his place and he drove it right to restaurant and street parked it, it's not some Lemons trailer queen made just for the race!  

Those who are pissing on this build must not have a sense of humor.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
5/6/20 12:58 p.m.

One of the best lemons cars I saw was a 60's something thunderbird that had a BMW diesel motor stuck in it.   I think I ahve photos of it some place.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
5/6/20 1:01 p.m.

here it is

 

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
5/6/20 1:02 p.m.

And a Porsche in its natural habituate in a lemons race.  

 

volvoclearinghouse (Forum Supporter)
volvoclearinghouse (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
5/8/20 9:53 a.m.

In reply to dean1484 :

Speedy Cop did that one, I believe, or some subset of his team.  It's actually not as crazy a swap as it sounds, as Lincoln used that BMW diesel in the Continental in the mid-80s, attached to a ZF auto transmission.  So there is a Ford connection there.  Sort of. 

engiekev
engiekev Reader
5/8/20 9:55 a.m.

In reply to dean1484 :

Is the radiator core support a pair of RATCHET STRAPS?? Madness

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