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First Drive: 2017 Subaru BRZ Performance Package

Haters are gonna hate.

We’ve heard it before: The Subaru BRZ doesn’t make enough horsepower.

Whenever the car and its near-twin from Scion come up, the internet is quick to pine: Why can’t it get a turbocharged engine like the WRX? And while we’re at it, why not make it all-wheel drive?

How’s this for a realistic answer? More power means more complexity, more weight and, of course, more expense, which would render the relatively simple, lightweight, affordable sportster into a different beast altogether.

Sometimes simple is better, even if that means giving up some power. It’s why so many motorsports greats aren’t exactly grandiose; think of the MGB, Honda CRX Si and, of course, the original Miata.

Subaru has upped performance bit for 2017 with their optional Performance Package, but it’s not going to appease those who wish the car made more power.

So who is the target audience for this car? Customers who understand what the BRZ represents and are looking for just a bit more “more.” That extra oomph mainly comes from bigger brakes and increased control.

New for 2017

The complete BRZ lineup gets a facelift for 2017. The outside receives a new front fascia, new alloy wheels and a new alloy spoiler. The headlights, taillights and foglights are now LED. Inside, the steering wheel gains audio control switches, while the gauge cluster gets a small screen that can display a range of stats: fuel economy, temperature and voltage, lateral g-loads, steering and throttle angle, brake force, torque and power curves, and even lap times.

One mechanical change will likely appeal to track and street drivers but fail to thrill autocrossers: The final-drive ratio drops from 4.10:1 to 4.30:1. That poses a dilemma for the autocross community: Practice those two-three shifts or move to a 26-inch-tall 245/45R17 tire? (The stock 215/45R17 tires measure 24.7 inches tall, while a 235/45R17 is only 24.4 inches tall.) We’ll need to do some testing (and math) before answering that one.

The engine fitted with the manual transmission receives some updates, too. The biggest change under the hood involves the red intake manifold: It’s now formed in aluminum instead of plastic, as aluminum allows for bigger ports. Plus, the engine block and pistons are stronger than before. More new items for 2017: buffed and polished valve stems, revised rocker arm pivots, a larger-diameter exhaust manifold, and a redesigned air cleaner box. Output and torque both go up 5 units, reaching 205 horsepower at 7000 rpm and 151 ft.-lbs. of torque at 6400.

Other changes for this model year? Slightly stiffer front springs, softer rear springs (10 percent, Subaru says), and a thicker rear anti-roll bar. The stability control thresholds increase, too, meaning less early intervention. The body itself becomes a bit stiffer, too. All of the updates for 2017 add about 20 pounds total.

New Performance Package

The top story here is the availability of a Performance Package. It consists of three main elements: Brembo brakes, wider wheels and stiffer Sachs ZF dampers.

Some specifics: Those wheels measure 17x7.5 inches, meaning they’re half an inch wider than the standard pieces. The front brakes grow from 11.6 inches to 12.8, while the rears go from 11.4 inches to 12.5. (Subaru notes that the BRZ Performance Package brake rotor diameters match those of the WRX STI.)

The Performance Package adds another 20 pounds to the final tally. It also must be added to a Limited-spec car, bringing the final MSRP to $28,840.

Driving It

We spent a day driving the BRZ Performance Package on the Circuito Guadix, a race venue you’ve likely never heard of. It’s located in Spain and is used for a lot of testing. What it lacks in fame it makes up for in a circuit that really tests your technique.

It’s not a horsepower course, with most of it run in third and fourth gear. In other words, it’s the perfect playground for a BRZ—or a Miata or something similar.

The BRZ with the Performance Package isn’t going to sway over its detractors. It doesn’t transform the car; it only raises the limits a bit.

It’s not a substitute for an STI, Corvette or Hellcat. It won’t spin the tires in third gear. It won’t pop a big flame or win a horsepower brag-off.

It’s a car that rewards patience and tidy lines. The power comes on smoothly and predictably. Visibility is really good. The seats are supportive. Pedal placement is excellent. The gauges are great. The shifter and transmission feel perfect.

It won’t let you mask a mistake with horsepower. Instead, it forces you to concentrate on your lines and braking markers.

Our test cars were reliable, too. Subaru had about a dozen cars at the launch. We drove them through the mountains, pushed them on track, and then returned them home—all without a mechanic or spare part in sight. The brakes never faded during our testing, either, and no cars limped into the pits with smoking brakes, cranky engines or warning lights ablaze.

For those who get it, this is a great track companion.

And for those who hate it? Like we said, haters are gonna hate.

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Comments

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MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
1/18/17 10:23 a.m.

I'm glad to hear it is staying in production.

thebigchill
thebigchill
1/18/17 10:26 a.m.

Just to be clear: If we think it needs more power, we "don't get it" ? I think we get it more than any BRZ apologist does. The car is good, but could be better with a bit more oomph. Most agree with this sentiment, barring jort and funny hat wearing Auto-X purists. The original unmodified Miata is a bore to drive if we can be honest, so that feels like an appropriate comparison, actually.

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago SuperDork
1/18/17 10:27 a.m.

I'm glad to see they finally put a decent set of wheels on the car. The earlier ones are so ugly.

Rusnak_322
Rusnak_322 Dork
1/18/17 10:43 a.m.
thebigchill wrote: Just to be clear: If we think it needs more power, we "don't get it" ? I think we get it more than any BRZ apologist does. The car is good, but could be better with a bit more oomph. Most agree with this sentiment, barring jort and funny hat wearing Auto-X purists. The original unmodified Miata is a bore to drive if we can be honest, so that feels like an appropriate comparison, actually.

what you are saying is - the BRZ would have plenty of power if it were only released in 1989 and not in 2012 when sub 250 hp motors are regulated to base model cars.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
1/18/17 11:01 a.m.

Here's my math in rough numbers.

An original CRX or GTI or Miata or MR2 weighed about 2000 pounds and made about 100 horsepower. The BRZ weighs about 2800 pounds and makes 200 horsepower. Yes, we always want more, but looking at some past favorites, the BRZ compares favorably. There is some throwback math in here. I'm cool with that.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
1/18/17 11:05 a.m.
MadScientistMatt wrote: I'm glad to hear it is staying in production.

You know, that is probably the big win here. Subaru is selling all of the Outbacks they can, and they just celebrated 61 consecutive months of growth. The fact they continue to build this niche vehicle is pretty impressive, especially as they have faster cars in the fleet.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/18/17 11:11 a.m.

You don't need to point back 25 years to the original Miata. The current one is also light with relatively low power levels. You know, dull and boring. Everyone knows that

cmcgregor
cmcgregor Dork
1/18/17 11:12 a.m.

I'm glad they're still making it. I just hope they continue to until I can afford to buy another one - I loved my FR-S.

Fr3AkAzOiD
Fr3AkAzOiD Reader
1/18/17 11:14 a.m.

Thing is there are always going to be people wanting more HP.

I remember with the S2000 how many times people said 240HP wasnt enough and it should have come with 300-350HP.

nderwater
nderwater UltimaDork
1/18/17 11:16 a.m.

The BRZ competes against the latest Mustangs and Camaros, along with the Challenger, Genesis Coupe and even the 370Z. I've not driven any of these, but on paper, the BRZ trails the pack. Most shoppers aren't test driving all of a target model's competition either, so without time behind the wheel a lot of people may completely miss why this car shines.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
1/18/17 11:19 a.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: You don't need to point back 25 years to the original Miata. The current one is also light with relatively low power levels. You know, dull and boring. Everyone knows that

Exactly.

DaveEstey
DaveEstey PowerDork
1/18/17 11:24 a.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: You don't need to point back 25 years to the original Miata. The current one is also light with relatively low power levels. You know, dull and boring. Everyone knows that

Then stop selling Miata power adders

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
1/18/17 11:29 a.m.
nderwater wrote: The BRZ competes against the latest Mustangs and Camaros, along with the Challenger, Genesis Coupe and even the 370Z. I've not driven any of these, but on paper, the BRZ trails the pack. Most shoppers aren't test driving all of a target model's competition either, so without time behind the wheel a lot of people may completely miss why this car shines.

That's a good point, and a shopper should drive them all. They might all be 2+2 coupes, but each one has its own character.

The Challenger feels huge--like, it feels as big as it is. It's not an autocrosser. It's just big everywhere--giant doors, giant tires, giant everything.

The latest Camaros also have a heavy feel to them, but the newest one is headed in the right direction. The Mustangs seem to better carry their weight.

The Z is an interesting one. It's the right size but just doesn't do it for me. The chassis has a nervousness to it.

We never got to drive the 2.0T Genesis Coupe. The first V6 Coupe had a cheap interior. The rest of the car was pretty good, but the interior was the deal-killer for me. It's also a little bit bigger and heavier than the BRZ.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
1/18/17 11:34 a.m.

By the way, this would have been a good BRZ fighter:

It's the Kia GT4 Stinger Concept. I saw it at the New York Auto Show a few years back. It's the right size and everything. Looks like Kia is going to use the Stinger name for something a bit different, though.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce UltimaDork
1/18/17 11:36 a.m.

I like it a lot, but not enough to to buy one. It's fantastic on paper but doesn't quite make an emotional connection and I'm not sure why. I do enjoy driving them, they're great.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
1/18/17 11:38 a.m.

I'm glad the BRZ got a tasteful front bumper update rather than the awful krill grille the FRS got.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/18/17 11:45 a.m.
DaveEstey wrote:
Keith Tanner wrote: You don't need to point back 25 years to the original Miata. The current one is also light with relatively low power levels. You know, dull and boring. Everyone knows that

Then stop selling Miata power adders

Ever looked at our lineup of parts for the ND? It's almost all chassis and brakes. We're looking at the engine, but we're really a handling company that happens to sell power adders.

There will always be people looking for more. You can buy power upgrades for your Dodge Hellcat.

red_stapler
red_stapler Dork
1/18/17 11:47 a.m.

"I'm sorry the internet doesn't understand you BRZ"

mtn
mtn MegaDork
1/18/17 11:48 a.m.

It isn't the power or the speed, it is the delivery. It is such a linear torque band that it doesn't feel fast in a straight line. It is faster than my old Miata, but my old Miata felt "fast" in a straight line because of the power delivery. It wasn't fast at all, but unless there was a car (pick one, anyone, even a minivan) next to me I didn't know that.

I still almost ended up with one, and someday may again in teh future since it is so much more usable than a Miata... But I doubt it.

thebigchill wrote: The original unmodified Miata is a bore to drive if we can be honest, so that feels like an appropriate comparison, actually.

Here is where I disagree. I don't think it was a bore to drive--it was a lot of fun.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltimaDork
1/18/17 11:54 a.m.

While I wish they made more power, I really just wished I fit in them better. Stupid big shoulders.

Trackmouse
Trackmouse Dork
1/18/17 12:24 p.m.

People wouldn't say anything about the power if it was all peak like the old 4age. I've even been "that guy". Test Drove an ae86 and said "man this thing isn't that bad!" -112hp...

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/18/17 12:34 p.m.
mtn wrote: It isn't the power or the speed, it is the delivery. It is such a linear torque band that it doesn't *feel* fast in a straight line. It is faster than my old Miata, but my old Miata felt "fast" in a straight line because of the power delivery. It wasn't fast at all, but unless there was a car (pick one, anyone, even a minivan) next to me I didn't know that.

That's a big difference between the NA and the NC Miatas as well. The NC engine is smooth with a linear torque band that's fairly boring - but also fairly effective. The NA engine - especially the 1.6 - is built with a cam that wakes up with revs, so it encourages you to wind it out and play with it. It's more about character than speed, which is something I hold fairly dear. The 1.6 in my old Locost only made 148 rwhp but it was the most entertaining engine I've ever driven.

Even in the V8s. The supercharged LSA is effective but boring. The LS376/525 makes less power but is crazy in a box.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/18/17 12:35 p.m.

I am content with 10 lbs to 1hp for a nimble sports car. The ~14:1 is a bit off putting.

That is one of the reasons I like the original S2000. That was the goal 10:1

I know the ND is around 15:1 which is why I think it needs a bit of oomph too.

BTD
BTD New Reader
1/18/17 12:38 p.m.

They don't need more power, they need more torque (more power would just be a plus). I'm not talking about 350/350 here either. If it had a 2.5L and made ~230hp/250tq, it would be the best sports car on the market, period.

I loved everything about my BRZ except the power. Now I drive an S197 mustang which feels just right, and it's a heavier car.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/18/17 12:40 p.m.
Flight Service wrote: I am content with 10 lbs to 1hp for a nimble sports car. The ~14:1 is a bit off putting. That is one of the reasons I like the original S2000. That was the goal 10:1 I know the ND is around 15:1 which is why I think it needs a bit of oomph too.

You can't just use a peak number. Look at area under the curve.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/18/17 12:46 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Keith, I know it's been a few months since I was active but...

jstein77
jstein77 UltraDork
1/18/17 12:55 p.m.

I've driven and raced against BRZ's at autocrosses, and they are certainly quick enough to set amazing times. Though I would argue that having an STi version in the lineup with the turbo motor (at extra cost, of course, like the STi version of the WRX) would create a surge in demand for the whole lineup.

racerdave600
racerdave600 SuperDork
1/18/17 12:56 p.m.

I liked my '15 BRZ, but didn't love it. It had two big issues for me, neither were the power. First, the seats for me just sucked. I admit to a bad back, but it sucked like no other car I've driven. Add to that the harshness of the suspension and it was too much to drive everyday. I'm sure if I were in my 20's it probably wouldn't have bothered me at all. A good shock change would have helped it enormously I think, and they should definitely think about adding another seating option.

As for the cross shopping, I loved my 370Z by comparison. There was nothing the BRZ did the 370 didn't do better, except for steering feel. It was faster everywhere, and more comfortable doing it. The week after I sold the 370 and bought the BRZ I knew I had made a mistake. With a few tweaks the BRZ could be sooooo much better.

I did however like it and would consider another one should they improve it certain areas. I feel I'm probably in the minority however and not in their target demographic.

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
1/18/17 1:42 p.m.

^^^ funny---- as my back absolutely couldn't take the seats in the 370z, but I find the Frisbee seats very comfortable. I've never felt pain from a seat before--- but for some reason the 370z thrones were unbearable. I could only drive the car for 20 minutes or less before I'd be in a great deal of pain. This was the only car I've ever driven that I had such a big issue with.

Different body types find different seats painful, or comfy. I'd highly recommend spending some time behind the wheel before you buy any new car.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/18/17 1:58 p.m.

In reply to Joe Gearin:

I find the 350z more comfortable than the 370Z...

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
1/18/17 2:27 p.m.
nderwater wrote: The BRZ competes against the latest Mustangs and Camaros, along with the Challenger, Genesis Coupe and even the 370Z. I've not driven any of these, but on paper, the BRZ trails the pack. Most shoppers aren't test driving all of a target model's competition either, so without time behind the wheel a lot of people may completely miss why this car shines.

It competes for market share with the pony cars, granted.

What the pony crowd misses, because they are focused on HP that they cant use on a daily basis, is the realities that exist with a lightweight chassis. You either get the concept of a lightweight car you don't, and as I suspected when the car first came out, most NA buyers would not get it.

If your value proposition is HP, don't buy an FRS. If your value proposition is lightweight, the twins are the ONLY players in the market at the price point.

CobraSpdRH
CobraSpdRH Reader
1/18/17 2:38 p.m.

So I should just go find a used first edition model and then find somebody with a 2017 to swap wheels with me?

I've definitely been keeping my eye on used prices for these, and it doesn't seem like there are any huge differences with the refresh (just get some 7.5" RPF1's and brake pads). Hopefully they stay just appreciated enough to continue to build them but not increase the resale on them.

Now that Scion has gone the way of the dodo, will Toyota be selling an FT-86 here in the states or is the BR-Z the only show in town?

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/18/17 2:40 p.m.
NOHOME wrote: If your value proposition is HP, don't buy an FRS. If your value proposition is lightweight, the twins are the ONLY players in the market at the price point.

I'm sorry. What did you say? Let me just leave ~$500 in your pocket and 400 lbs at the factory for you...

Unless you meant the twins are two of four players in the lightweight market. Because if you want to pay more and weigh more, like the twins, Fiat has a body kit they are selling on the Miata too.

In reply to CobraSpdRH: The 86 is for sale now as a 2017 model at Toyota

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
1/18/17 2:47 p.m.
Flight Service wrote:
NOHOME wrote: If your value proposition is HP, don't buy an FRS. If your value proposition is lightweight, the twins are the ONLY players in the market at the price point.

I'm sorry. What did you say? Let me just leave ~$500 in your pocket and 400 lbs at the factory for you...

In reply to CobraSpdRH: The 86 is for sale now as a 2017 model at Toyota

I actually shopped the two.$12,000 more for the Miata than the FRS.

FRS was 32k sitting in my driveway, the Miata was closer to 45k by the time I got it home. Cause Canada.

Miata≠four seater hardtop.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/18/17 2:50 p.m.
NOHOME wrote:
Flight Service wrote:
NOHOME wrote: If your value proposition is HP, don't buy an FRS. If your value proposition is lightweight, the twins are the ONLY players in the market at the price point.

I'm sorry. What did you say? Let me just leave ~$500 in your pocket and 400 lbs at the factory for you...

In reply to CobraSpdRH: The 86 is for sale now as a 2017 model at Toyota

I actually shopped the two.$12,000 more for the Miata than the FRS.

FRS was 32k sitting in my driveway, the Miata was closer to 45k by the time I got it home. Cause Canada.

Miata≠four seater hardtop.

That must be a canada thing because the Miata is cheaper, lighter and the saying the BRZ is a 4 seater just isn't done in the US.

2+2 is pushing it, more like a luggage shelf with retaining straps. Hell those seats are so useless just take them out and get some of that weight back. (You also never said 4 seat or hardtop, just lightweight)

keethrax
keethrax Dork
1/18/17 3:08 p.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: You don't need to point back 25 years to the original Miata. The current one is also light with relatively low power levels. You know, dull and boring. Everyone knows that

Says the guy who makes a living fixing that.

Keith Tanner wrote: Ever looked at our lineup of parts for the ND? It's almost all chassis and brakes. We're looking at the engine, but we're really a handling company that happens to sell power adders.

I have. And the site basically just says "we're working in it" Not "you don't need/want it."

Personally I'ma lot more likely to forgive a bit less power than I would like in a convertible than in a hardtop.

racerdave600
racerdave600 SuperDork
1/18/17 4:38 p.m.
Joe Gearin wrote: ^^^ funny---- as my back absolutely couldn't take the seats in the 370z, but I find the Frisbee seats very comfortable. I've never felt pain from a seat before--- but for some reason the 370z thrones were unbearable. I could only drive the car for 20 minutes or less before I'd be in a great deal of pain. This was the only car I've ever driven that I had such a big issue with. Different body types find different seats painful, or comfy. I'd highly recommend spending some time behind the wheel before you buy any new car.

It would be a boring place if we all liked the same thing. That or we'd all be made out of Legos.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
1/18/17 5:08 p.m.
CobraSpdRH wrote: Now that Scion has gone the way of the dodo, will Toyota be selling an FT-86 here in the states or is the BR-Z the only show in town?

Toyota dealers now carry their own version, the 86.

Vracer111
Vracer111 Reader
1/18/17 9:03 p.m.

All the stock seats in all the 'inexpensive' sporty/sports cars suck to me, I haven't driven in a vehicle where the stock seats were ever properly fitting to my body, especially Japanese vehicles. I got my '13 FR-S in spite of the fact the stock seats really suck for me, because I knew I would be swapping it out for a proper seat eventually. Took me 3 years to be able to afford it, but was finally able to get the right seat in it (Recaro Sportster CS).

Like the look of the '17 BRZ, but the '17 86... not so much with that ugly front bumper. The refinement of the powertrain seems nice from all accounts. Really like the look of the red aluminum intake manifold and the new rear tail lights, and it's nice that some 17x7.5" wheels can be had stock... I settled on that size wheel with 205/45-17 Continental Extreme Contact DW's and really like what it did with the handling.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
1/18/17 9:42 p.m.

Didn't we have a 6-7 page thread about too much factory horsepower? Pick one people.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UltraDork
1/18/17 10:36 p.m.
mtn wrote: It isn't the power or the speed, it is the delivery. It is such a linear torque band that it doesn't *feel* fast in a straight line. It is faster than my old Miata, but my old Miata felt "fast" in a straight line because of the power delivery. It wasn't fast at all, but unless there was a car (pick one, anyone, even a minivan) next to me I didn't know that. I still almost ended up with one, and someday may again in teh future since it is so much more usable than a Miata... But I doubt it.
thebigchill wrote: The original unmodified Miata is a bore to drive if we can be honest, so that feels like an appropriate comparison, actually.

Here is where I disagree. I don't think it was a bore to drive--it was a lot of fun.

This. If this car came with the K20 or K24 out of a Civic Si, I bet you there would be at least a 50% reduction in the griping of how much power the car comes with (at least with people who have driven it). VTEC gives you that visceral feel of "fast" and not so linear power. TBH it's one thing that made me dislike my 2016 WRX. The power was so smooth and linear the car felt boring when you got on it; but, it also got like 27mpg in non highway driving and hauled ass. Complete opposite of the EJs in the STI where boost didn't kick in until later in the rev range.

I love the BRZ and this performance pack makes me contemplate ditching my S2K; but, there are so many other options out there. I've got a lot of test driving to do this upcoming summer.

Talking about seats. The seats in my wife's FXT Touring are a step down from the base model Forester cloth seats. Wife and I both hate the leather seats, uncomfortable and makes our asses/legs fall asleep. We would gladly swap these out for a set of base model seats if we had the opportunity.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/19/17 12:49 a.m.
keethrax wrote:
Keith Tanner wrote: Ever looked at our lineup of parts for the ND? It's almost all chassis and brakes. We're looking at the engine, but we're really a handling company that happens to sell power adders.

I have. And the site basically just says "we're working in it" Not "you don't need/want it."

Need and want are two very different things People want more, we'll have more available for them soon enough. Do they need more? Probably not. But it's fun. As noted, I'd rather have even more character from the engine myself.

MSRP in Canada for the Toyota 86: $29,580.
MSRP in Canada for the Miata: $31,900. Nohome needs to get a second opinion from a different dealer.

DaveEstey
DaveEstey PowerDork
1/19/17 8:51 a.m.

I think the issue with the BRZ/FT86 is the dip in the torque curve right in the heart of the rev range - makes it feel weedy. A tune takes care of it, but the manufacturer should be doing that work, not the aftermarket.

jstein77
jstein77 UltraDork
1/19/17 9:45 a.m.
DaveEstey wrote: I think the issue with the BRZ/FT86 is the dip in the torque curve right in the heart of the rev range - makes it feel weedy. A tune takes care of it, but the manufacturer should be doing that work, not the aftermarket.

Yeah, the aftermarket can fix that dip.

(This is from a Treadstone turbo kit. 273 ft-lbs at the wheels.)

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
1/19/17 10:05 a.m.
DaveEstey wrote: I think the issue with the BRZ/FT86 is the dip in the torque curve right in the heart of the rev range - makes it feel weedy. A tune takes care of it, but the manufacturer should be doing that work, not the aftermarket.

A tune "kind of" takes care of it. The big fix is an E85 tune and a header.

Mister Fister
Mister Fister Reader
1/19/17 10:41 a.m.

Used to own one.

Needs more power.

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
1/19/17 10:47 a.m.
Keith Tanner wrote:
keethrax wrote:
Keith Tanner wrote: Ever looked at our lineup of parts for the ND? It's almost all chassis and brakes. We're looking at the engine, but we're really a handling company that happens to sell power adders.

I have. And the site basically just says "we're working in it" Not "you don't need/want it."

Need and want are two very different things People want more, we'll have more available for them soon enough. Do they need more? Probably not. But it's fun. As noted, I'd rather have even more character from the engine myself.

MSRP in Canada for the Toyota 86: $29,580.
MSRP in Canada for the Miata: $31,900. Nohome needs to get a second opinion from a different dealer.

You mean that MSRP has something to do with the actual price? Please tell the Tete du Merde sales guys at Probart Mazda that little fact. I was informed that the FRS is not the competition for the Miata, rather the Mercedes SLK. I will admit to not being a negotiator. I put what I consider to be my buy price as the only number and then go away. In the case of the Miata it was the MSRP.

Needless to say I am still driving the FRS.

As a fan of capitalism, all I can say is if they are selling, more power to them.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/19/17 11:41 a.m.

Oh man, I remember Probart. They gave my Miata a free 100 point inspection and told me my battery was on its last legs. Took them a while to find it, since it was cleverly installed in the trunk. That was in...1993? 1994? I replaced that battery in 2002.

MSRP can be used as a guide to the maximum selling price. Typically you don't see cars selling for 50% more than that. The dealer just wanted you to go away.

Ironsides
Ironsides New Reader
1/19/17 11:52 a.m.

Coincidentally, on the same day this article launched , I took home my '17

fanfoy
fanfoy Dork
1/19/17 12:18 p.m.
NOHOME wrote:
Keith Tanner wrote:
keethrax wrote:
Keith Tanner wrote: Ever looked at our lineup of parts for the ND? It's almost all chassis and brakes. We're looking at the engine, but we're really a handling company that happens to sell power adders.

I have. And the site basically just says "we're working in it" Not "you don't need/want it."

Need and want are two very different things People want more, we'll have more available for them soon enough. Do they need more? Probably not. But it's fun. As noted, I'd rather have even more character from the engine myself.

MSRP in Canada for the Toyota 86: $29,580.
MSRP in Canada for the Miata: $31,900. Nohome needs to get a second opinion from a different dealer.

You mean that MSRP has something to do with the actual price? Please tell the Tete du Merde sales guys at Probart Mazda that little fact. I was informed that the FRS is not the competition for the Miata, rather the Mercedes SLK. I will admit to not being a negotiator. I put what I consider to be my buy price as the only number and then go away. In the case of the Miata it was the MSRP.

Needless to say I am still driving the FRS.

As a fan of capitalism, all I can say is if they are selling, more power to them.

Also don't forget that the base Miata is pretty bare and doesn't include some nice things like LSD and 17" wheels. For that, you have to step up to the GS model with a MRSP that start at $37707.

And like NOHOME said, good luck finding one for that price. The FRS/BRZ on the other hand, I can easily find below MRSP.

Huckleberry
Huckleberry MegaDork
1/19/17 12:48 p.m.
Ironsides wrote: Coincidentally, on the same day this article launched , I took home my '17

Nice!

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
1/23/17 8:30 a.m.
Ironsides wrote: Coincidentally, on the same day this article launched , I took home my '17

Congratulations! And great color choice.

Snrub
Snrub Reader
1/23/17 10:57 a.m.

For the record, website pricing all in, not including tax is ~$31.4k FSR vs. 33.8k Miata in arctic peso currency. (we typically earn similar numbers in a lower value currency) No LSD in the miata at that price, it takes closer to $38k to get one.

jstein77
jstein77 UltraDork
1/23/17 4:03 p.m.

That's really nice, Ironsides! Congrats!

Mitchell
Mitchell UberDork
1/23/17 11:51 p.m.

When comparing NC Miatas and Frisbees a year and a half ago, the twins had already started depreciating really quickly. Miatas started around the same MSRP, but the twins were $2-4K less expensive. I just preferred the NC's shifter feel, appearance, and steering. I can't wait to flatten out the NC's cornering; then it will be close to perfection.

thebigchill
thebigchill New Reader
1/30/17 11:05 a.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: You don't need to point back 25 years to the original Miata. The current one is also light with relatively low power levels. You know, dull and boring. Everyone knows that

Do you not have an LS swapped ND? Do you not continue to offer power-adders? Do you own a single stock powertrain Miata? I currently drive (for fun) a Gen 4 3SGTE swapped '93 MR2 w/ ~315hp. Before that, I had a typical bolt-on and tuned Mazdaspeed Miata, and before that, a litany of old SR20DE and DET Nissans. I get that lightweight w/ lower power can be fun. But I also believe that a modern driving machine like the BRZ should not have such a wide gap between its HP and TQ numbers (205 vs 155). It's boring to drive unless you're revving it out and weaving through the twisties. The power delivery is a complete bore as a daily driver, or even as a weekend car if you're on anything other than grin-inducing roads. The BRZ is boring like the Civic Si is boring, though the BRZ's saving grace is it's cornering prowess.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
1/30/17 11:48 a.m.

In reply to thebigchill:

You must have driven a different car than I've been driving. The FR-S has never felt slow or boring to me. I rarely go above 4,500rpm, and am almost always first off the line at a stop. Doesn't sound like the 86 is for you.

BTW, don't ride a sport bike. The horsepower to torque ratios are lopsided on those, too and they are no fun.

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