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John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
2/18/11 9:44 a.m.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/230586170449#ht_500wt_975

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
2/18/11 12:20 p.m.

Is it street legal?

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
2/18/11 12:27 p.m.

Why wouldn't/ couldn't it be it is past the 25 year deadline?

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
2/18/11 3:57 p.m.
racinginc215 wrote: who cares about street legal. this is where you buy a 300 dollar rotted out Torino and swap the vin.

Federal Felony = not worth it.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
2/18/11 4:03 p.m.

If it's 25 years old, you can import it. Providing proof of ownership might be the tricky bit - it's a 25 year old salvage car with no title and a weird VIN at this point.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
2/18/11 9:13 p.m.

I had to ask mainly because in big letters it says that it's not street legal. Things are looser here in Florida but, no, I don't need a project right now.

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
2/18/11 9:19 p.m.

ANY parts car sold on eBay has to say not street legal as well IIRC. I could be full of E36 M3 though, I am on pain killers right now.

aussiesmg
aussiesmg SuperDork
2/18/11 11:23 p.m.

Gets my aussie blood a pumping, I had one of these in the very early 80s

Rob_Mopar
Rob_Mopar HalfDork
2/19/11 8:46 p.m.

Does Eric Bana still need a parts car?

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
2/19/11 9:46 p.m.
racinginc215 wrote:
Javelin wrote:
racinginc215 wrote: who cares about street legal. this is where you buy a 300 dollar rotted out Torino and swap the vin.

Federal Felony = not worth it.

Prove it!

Um, seriously? You do not know that VIN swapping is illegal? Did you not read about Classic Restorations last year? http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/09/report-classic-recreations-under-investigation-for-vin-swapping/

Or Unique Performance before that? http://jalopnik.com/#!319267/oh-no-eleanor-unique-performance-accused-of-title-washing And felony charges... http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/27/round-4-unique-performance-execs-face-25-felony-charges/

You seriously didn't know or think that this was illegal?

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
2/20/11 9:20 a.m.

I'll gladly snitch on you, especially since the XB is stupid-easy to import LEGALLY. I have known about single cars that the have been caught, confiscated, and crushed. One happened because of a traffic stop. VIN didn't match what the car was, State Trooper impounded it, and it eventually got crushed. Second one was when his car got hit. Insurance adjuster took one look at the car and immediately knew it wasn't the title proclaimed. Idiot lost his car and the insurance payout, then spent some time in jail for doing the deed himself when the authorities proved it.

If you truly think this is worth it, then by all means go for it. I will be the first person to call the cops on your dumb ass. You really think nobody at the DMV/DOT, State Police, insurance, or otherwise is going to notice your car isn't a Torino? Get real.

http://www.classictiger.com/vinopin.html

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=198638

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
2/20/11 10:51 a.m.

Why would it be that to get it titled in the US? I mean it is over 25 years old.

metalman
metalman Reader
2/20/11 1:25 p.m.

Honestly, no one should get their panties in a wad about some VINs swapped on old cars...where fraud isnt a factor. VIN swapping in such cases is far more common then most realize. One example: There are approximately eleventy billion classic Minis in the USA with swapped VINs, most done just to bring them into the country, I dont see anyone being killed by it. Yeah occasionally some nutjob will try to sell a Cooper S that isnt....but anyone that knows their anus from a hole in a tree about those cars should be able to discern the truth. It may be a technicality but its just not that big a deal in cases like this. Such laws were really designed to protect consumers from buying late model rebuilt wrecks unaware etc

That being said, if I had a classic old car with a VIN swap I would always inform future hobbyists of what I know.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
2/20/11 1:32 p.m.

Ugh. I need an ignore feature on this board.

Nobody likes a snitch.

Grtechguy
Grtechguy SuperDork
2/20/11 1:32 p.m.

I still want to know why they make certain vehicles illegal to import.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
2/20/11 1:34 p.m.
Grtechguy wrote: I still want to know why they make certain vehicles illegal to import.

After 25 years, it's usually not a problem at all.

But prior to that... emissions and safety are the main issues. Government wants to make sure you're safe, and no, you're not allowed to give up any safety for fun. That's illegal, comrade.

Grtechguy
Grtechguy SuperDork
2/20/11 1:37 p.m.

Yet, I can build a Locost 7 in my garage from junkyard parts and have it meet "Safety"

metalman
metalman Reader
2/20/11 1:43 p.m.

So cars magically become 'safer' between the 24-25 year mark. LOL....

Even cars 25 yrs old cant be imported without specific paperwork leaving some in limbo....unless someone swaps a VIN/paperwork etc. Mini's are brought in nearly every day that are less then 25 yrs old...in fact that is the most common reason for the numbers/paper swap. The stupidity of technicalities is obvious in that case, its the same car they made in 1959 they also made in 1999 and the 99 is the safest...but due to laws you cant bring it in even though it is more emission friendly and has safety equipment. You can bring in a 59 though, with no seat belts or airbags etc.

metalman
metalman Reader
2/20/11 1:50 p.m.

AS for the car in question from the original post....if that car has ANY VIN tags or number stamped on it, Aussie or otherwise, regardless of no title etc, here in GA it could likely be licensed to drive easily with only a bill of sale. No title will be issued. But who cares if you can drive it on the street.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
2/20/11 2:02 p.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Ugh. I need an ignore feature on this board. Nobody likes a snitch.

Why is bad to snitch in this case? This car is stupid-easy to get a LEGAL title for, so why commit a Federal crime?

Jay
Jay SuperDork
2/22/11 7:55 a.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
Grtechguy wrote: I still want to know why they make certain vehicles illegal to import.

After 25 years, it's usually not a problem at all.

But prior to that... emissions and safety are the main issues. Government wants to make sure you're safe, and no, you're not allowed to give up any safety for fun. That's illegal, comrade.

Actually it's more because the manufacturers and the dealership lobby want absolute control over who's allowed to get cars from where, and have leaned on their "very good friends" in the gooberment to make it that way. But lets not get into that just now...

Wouldn't it be easier to wash the title of that thing through one of those title services? That has to be less illegal than swapping the VIN. Especially since you can prove a legitimate chain of ownership.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
2/22/11 9:14 a.m.
racinginc215 wrote: No the car is not stupid easy to title legally that's the problem. Hell snitch away. I'll call it a kit car and in Michigan there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

It is stupid easy to legally title, and you're a flipping moron if you think otherwise. Get the Ozzie bill of sale and title, fill out a ONE FLIPPING PAGE NHSTA form, walk into DMV, pay the fee, and walk out with legitimate US title.

Form: http://icsw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/hs799short.pdf

READ: http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/FAQ%20Site/index.html

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/elig092210.pdf

"This prohibition applies to both new and used motor vehicles, but does not apply to motor vehicles that are at least 25 years old (based on the date that the vehicle was manufactured)."

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/FAQ%20Site/pages/page2.html#Anchor-28852

A motor vehicle that is at least 25 years old can be lawfully imported into the U.S. without regard to whether it complies with all applicable FMVSS. Such a vehicle would be entered under Box 1 on the HS-7 Declaration form to be given to Customs at the time of importation. If you wish to see that form, you may download a copy from our website at www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import. You should note that the 25 year period runs from the date of the vehicle's manufacture. If the date of manufacture is not identified on a label permanently affixed to the vehicle by its original manufacturer, to establish the age of the vehicle, you should have documentation available such as an invoice showing the date the vehicle was first sold or a registration document showing that the vehicle was registered at least 25 years ago. Absent such information, a statement from a recognized vehicle historical society identifying the age of the vehicle could be used.

metalman
metalman Reader
2/22/11 10:12 a.m.
Javelin wrote: Get the Ozzie bill of sale and title,

According to the auction description there is NO title being offered. Sold on BILL OF SALE ONLY....so you would be shy some paperwork to even attempt that.

Anyway....I'd just register it and not worry about a title. A title isnt needed where I live to drive the car. There are many other states that function the same way. Georgia doesnt even like to issue titles on old cars anyway. You often have to fight the DMV clerks to get one. Most clerks will tell you 'we dont issue titles for vehicles 25 yrs or older'....which is only partially correct.

No sense getting ones knickers all in a twist over some old car. Its just not that big a deal. Hopefully someone will put this thing on the road.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
2/22/11 10:50 a.m.
racinginc215 wrote: Hopefully it gets done under the radar of the board nanny and snitch.

I'm glad you feel it's so important to insult somebody for trying to get you to not break the law. Do you cheat on your income taxes too? Drive away from the pump without paying? Expired tags? Shop lift? Hell, they aren't a "big deal" either.

Bill of Sale + 1-page paper and you're legal. Why the berkely would you even bother with doing anything else?

wcelliot
wcelliot HalfDork
2/22/11 11:39 a.m.
Javelin wrote: I'm glad you feel it's so important to insult somebody for trying to get you to not break the law. Do you cheat on your income taxes too? Drive away from the pump without paying? Expired tags? Shop lift? Hell, they aren't a "big deal" either. Bill of Sale + 1-page paper and you're legal. Why the berkely would you even bother with doing anything else?

There are things that are morally wrong and things that are not legal... don't confuse the two.

Depending on the state (the laws vary dramatically) it could be a "big deal" or even impossible to do strictly within the law.. which is likely why the cars didn't sell.

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