1 2
Greg Smith
Greg Smith HalfDork
8/20/18 2:26 p.m.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-Jaguar-XK/163210855546?hash=item260020047a:g:F78AAOSwoDFbec31&vxp=mtr#viTabs_0

Looks like an interesting project to pick up for a song, depending on how the bidding goes. Currently under $200 for a 1977 Jaguar XK convertible, straight 6, triple SUs. No front wheels, and apparently it's in a rear barn with 2 additional motors (or 'most' of 2 motors...).  Looks like it (may) have a manual trans...

If you have a set of wheels that works and some way to get a project out of the barn, it could be a neat find. 

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
8/20/18 2:38 p.m.

In reply to Greg Smith :

Well you have a real interesting car there. The car is a later XJS   Convertibles were made in about 1988 so the serial numbers won’t match a 1977 tittle.A small number were converted in England and about 1986 Hess and Eisenhardt converted a few less than 900 here in the US.  The value of conversion convertibles is pretty weak compared to the later factory convertibles.  

That cast Iron six dates from the early to mid  1960’s.  Smooth valve covers instead of finned. Triple SU’s are 1967  sedan or earlier.   From a Jaguar mk 10 sedan. The manifolds won’t fit an XKE.  They hit the frame on an E type. No XJS ever had factory wire wheels  they weren’t rated for the weight.  While that engine made a claimed 265 horsepower they were ponies with very skinny legs compared to the later engines. Gross horsepower instead of the net DIN of 284 and 294 torques the car originally came with. 

It’s all doable because do many Jaguar parts interchange,   just a very unusual combination.  

 

Greg Smith
Greg Smith HalfDork
8/20/18 2:57 p.m.

NMNA. but it was such an unusual fine on Ebay, and I know someone in the hive would have the resources (wheels, trailer, etc) to rescue it. I'm tempted, but have a 1-space garage with a convertible TR7 shell there. I can't run another unfinished project at this point. Which is sad, because that Jag seems neat enough to rescue. 

 

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
8/20/18 3:22 p.m.

In reply to Greg Smith :

Yes it is interesting.  And not that far to drag home.  But wow.!  One more project?  I wonder what the record for shortest marriage is?   

dherr
dherr HalfDork
8/20/18 4:02 p.m.

Glad that is far from my house. I had the same questions as I knew they did not make a convertible in 1977.  Cool car, thanks for sharing!

Greg, good thing your son is on his honeymoon and not online, he does not need to see this or https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/open-classifieds/nmsa-1999-miata-supercharged/142394/page1/

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
8/20/18 9:22 p.m.

Toyota 5-speed manual trans.. weird. Definitely not a 1977; the 3rd brake light didn't become a requirement until around 1984.

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
8/21/18 12:18 a.m.

In reply to dculberson :

Unless you see something I don’t that looks like a Jaguar 4 speed manual transmission which would have been available  about the same time as the engines.  In fact it looks like the later all synchro shift knob.  Used from 1965- 1974. 

That does not look like the later (1988-1996) factory convertible. More like the Hess and Esienhardt Convertible from 1986-1988.  To my knowledge none of the earlier British made Convertible conversions made it over here, if the had they would have been right hand drive.  

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
8/21/18 5:13 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

The seller buried it in the cars “condition” description. They say it’s a Toyota 5-speed. 

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
8/21/18 7:10 a.m.

It would be pretty cool to buy this, add lightness and go crapcan racing.   

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
8/21/18 7:32 a.m.

In reply to spitfirebill :Considering the cast Iron six makes so much less power than the V12 and weighs 30 pounds more,  someone would be way ahead putting a V12 back in it.  

I’ve heard a few people using the Toyota 5 speed to do a manual conversion on a V12 so I know it can be done but I’d really question the durability. 

In fact the T5 conversion  doesn’t have a sterling reputation under racing conditions.  Although there were several variations of the T5.  

 

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
8/21/18 8:53 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

I would just be going with what I had.  And the  XK 6 engine is just so sexy.  The W58 Toyota transmissions are considered strong, but that’s not necessarily what is in the car.  

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
8/21/18 11:01 a.m.

In reply to spitfirebill : I raced the 3.8 version of that engine for decades and it held up remarkably.  

While the later version in the sedans was a tiny bit lighter and had better heads with bigger valves the MK10 at least had triple HD 8’s  although they were jetted( needled ) with UM’s instead of the preferred UO’s 

Trying to race that engine will require special attention paid to oil control.  A good oil scraper, and one way baffles will be required. Under hard braking oil will surge forward away from the pickup and just as you need to get on the throttle hard the engine won’t have any oil pressure. 

Luckily if you are racing a 4200 pound car acceleration won’t be an issue.. However when I raced it it took a whole season where I had to change bearings after every sprint race of 30 laps.  Until I figured out how to control oil surge.   In fact I’d often have to drop the oil pan and slide in a set of bearings after practice and qualifying.  If we got 2 practice sessions between practice and qualifying and again before the race.  

Finally I started carrying shim stock to shim up the bearings between sessions. The scrapper helped a lot but the real key was the one way baffles and the big oil pump I used from the second year on.  

Then A once a year freshen was all that was needed. Even that ended once I dry sumped the engine and I’d get more than a decade between rebuilds.   

 

noddaz
noddaz SuperDork
8/21/18 1:10 p.m.

Needs more LS.

GTXVette
GTXVette SuperDork
8/22/18 6:25 a.m.

OLD FRIEND, Hugh is selling 3 xjs cars 2 have v-12 engines, 1000.00 n.side of atl. In Marietta. CL ATL.

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
8/22/18 7:45 a.m.

In reply to GTXVette :Something like that would make a much better value than an XJS with the old cast Iron 6 

So many have easy to repair issues that cost next to nothing to get fixed and made reliable.  

Like any car you need the knowledge or it gets horribly frustrating.  Park a 1984 Honda Civic or Cadillac in my driveway with a problem and I’d be scratching around, looking in the wrong place, fixing stuff that doesn’t need fixing.  Wasting money on swapping out perfectly good parts.  

I understand why Chevy’s get swapped in.  They know Chevy so it’s simple. Trained as a parts swapper to replace parts until things roar back to life they get by.  

The fact that it costs a whole lot more to put an inferior engine in then it would to properly fix something in the first place, escapes the swappers.  Knowledge is power and they know Chevy.  

Except a Jaguar works the same way.  Needs fuel air and spark at the right time just like a Chevy.  

 

 

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
8/22/18 7:54 a.m.
noddaz said:

Needs more LS. If you like the LS engine and want luxury why not look at Cadillac?  

The Jaguars are heavy cars, 4200-4600 pounds.  Even a 400 horsepower  Chevy engine in one will still get beat by a Honda Civic with a turbo and fart can  exhaust. 

Parts in a Cadillac are at least GM so there will be a lot more commonality.  

In addition to big Luxury cars Cadillac  made medium and small cars too so the Chevy V8 will have a chance at some performance. 

There is also the Cadillac version of the Corvette if you are really interested in performance.  

Not to mention Camero 

 

GTXVette
GTXVette SuperDork
8/22/18 12:51 p.m.

YEAH THE 78 FOR 350.00 WOULD CHALLENGE RULE, 2 MORE FOR PARTS AT 650.00 YOU COULD USE THE HF ENGINE LATER MODEL FOR THE TOW VEHICLE.

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
8/22/18 2:57 p.m.

In reply to GTXVette : the 1978 is a pre 1981.  What that means is it’s got the good flatheads.  So the potential for power is there.  Depending on what month it was made it also could be lighter. By as much as 3000 pounds!  Again depending on build month you could get lucky and everything is there.   

Bad news is, it may have the lousy Borg Warner  transmission depending on what month it was built. The trick is to use the later block with the good GM turbo 400 transmission, but put the Early flatheads on along with the distributor, and fuel injection.  You will have to use the early pistons. If the heads are off and the engine is on a stand it’s only a couple of hours to swap pistons into an engine ( assuming the rings aren’t too badly stuck ) 

no you can NOT  use the HE pistons  on a Flathead  The HE   Is designed to deal with California’s smog laws not make more power. With the Flatheads the HE pistons will hit the valves.  Even if you mill reliefs in the pistons the compression will be something like 22-1 

Good news is it will have the slightly better Lucas fuel injection.  The earlier ones had a weird adapted triple Bosch system that was all analog.  Bad news?  It’s not very easily altered.  Better off using the Mega squirt system if you want to turbo it.  

Yes the early V12 takes to a turbo like a duck to water.  Power and torque go up to over 500 with just a pair of T3 turbo’s stuck in behind the tires behind the front tires.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

GTXVette
GTXVette SuperDork
8/22/18 3:05 p.m.

since i came to Grassroots I have learned a lot from you. enough so it seems like a doable Challenge but I am covered up right now.

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
8/22/18 4:11 p.m.

In reply to GTXVette :Thank you.  Hopefully someone will take on the challenge with aV12 

I’d do it myself but it would cost a challenge budget to get there and back. While travel expenses don’t count they sure do in my bank account.  So I’m pretty well restricted to local events.  

NOHOME
NOHOME UltimaDork
8/22/18 4:30 p.m.

The triple SU intake and carbs is worth it alone.  E-Type guys pay a lot for tri-carb set-ups.

 

The 5 speed conversion is worth it even if you need to occasionally rebuild a box . Doubt you would since my thoughts are that T5s most often fail due to the nut behind the wheel.

 

Pete

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
8/22/18 4:46 p.m.

In reply to NOHOME : sorry the triple carb set up is from a MK10 sedan not an XKE 

if you try to use it on an E type it will hit the frame.  

 Depending on the transmission and how it’s adapted it could be a great deal or complete trouble.   The normal way to adapt is to buy a custom made bell housing, etc etc which quickly adds up!  

On the other hand,  there are guys like me who use the Borg Warner Bell housing and go from there.  There are all sorts of mistakes you can make and I think I’ve done them all.  At least twice.  Eventually you’ll work up with a good approach and your system will work as it should.  But even professionally built systems need to be checked. They aren’t just a plug and play. 

With regard the T5 transmission, don’t forget the wide range of cars that used the T5. So not all T6’s are the same. 

Stampie
Stampie UberDork
8/29/18 12:33 p.m.

3 hours left and it's just over $200. I'm interested in the rear end if anyone wants to go partners and buy it. 

nutherjrfan
nutherjrfan SuperDork
8/29/18 7:29 p.m.

Looks like it sold for $300. cool

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
8/29/18 7:32 p.m.

In reply to Stampie : I sort of followed it right up to about a half hour before close of auction when it was still at $200 I don’t think it made minimums although I have no way of knowing.  

If you want the rear end, let me know I’ve got a few I’ll sell or trade you for.  

You should know the 2.88-1 rear end isn’t that hot.  While it does have  positraction as do all ITS rear ends. It’s really only valued if you want to go racing at Bonnevile.  Better is the 3.54-1 rear end in either the much earlier cars or the later XJS 6 cylinders or V12’s with overdrive.  

The center piece  ( called the pumpkin ) is directly swappable with earlier cars. Or swappable with a little work on the later ones 

 

1 2
Our Preferred Partners
Z9fNx41mvkmF0wq1UIEDFbjSm7RrO8hWT8ufUgaqrgraUQ89qtgG7bg2OwqcJOmH