Presented by Nine Lives Racing
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mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
8/17/19 11:09 a.m.

I'm blown away. You deserve a taco for your bravery. 

 

sleepyhead the buffalo
sleepyhead the buffalo Mod Squad
8/17/19 11:53 a.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

spoiler pun is funny

re: Too much?

I guess we've proven the answer to be "no"....

the next question is:   so, should you go bigger?   devil

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
8/17/19 12:26 p.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

I LOVE tacos. I honestly figured it would shred itself.  But it has proven to be far stronger than expected!

Sleepyhead  no. Itz already stupid big. No more biggering. 

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
8/17/19 1:56 p.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

Paint it smooth so i can make vinyl.  On front i will make “i think it’s big enough” and on back i will make #ThatsWhatSheSaid

sleepyhead the buffalo
sleepyhead the buffalo Mod Squad
8/17/19 2:53 p.m.
Robbie said:
sleepyhead the buffalo said:

Erm, what book is that and what other books do you suggest for aero?

Race Car Aerodynamics: Designing for Speed, Joseph Katz

It gives a top level review of aerodynamics, and then delves into the particulars of race cars.  It's the only "road vehicle" aerodynamics book that I have, so I tend to skim it and go digging for the data I want... and it's a good start... being widely available and only ~$30.  In the process of digging in Katz, and looking through the references in it (especially about spoilers) it indicates a lot of the data it is using comes from "Hucho", which is now...

Aerodynamics of Road Vehicles, Fifth Edition, edited by Thomas Christian Schuetz

 which at 500+ pages, I suspect has the kind of data that I want to go digging into... to access previously performed experiments to use to extrapolate out designs from.  At $200-odd dollars (~$100 older rev used versions), and that kind of "heft", 'ARV' is maybe a bit much of a first jump?

Considering your playing around with Javafoil, and cambered constant thickness wings... you might look at picking up...

Theory of Wing Sections, Abbott & von Doenhoff

It has a lot of good explanation of the first ~60 years of airfoil development... the approaches taken, plus test results (basically up until PC's spelled took over for airfoil design).  It is the "original book of wings sections", plus it's got some good aero theory in it.

I've heard good things about Simon McBeaths' 'Competition Car Aerodynamics'... but I don't have it, and haven't looked through it; so I can't comment on it.

another resource to go digging around in is... mulsannescorner
you can look through individual car pages, but another thing to not overlook is digging through the "News Archive"... but the site became a bit more static around 2016 or so, and I think the discussion has moved to a closer facebook group of the same name.  But, if you're trying to piece together "why things are the way they are"... MC is a good place to go digging around if you've got some spare minutes and an internet connection.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
8/17/19 3:24 p.m.

In reply to Patrick :

It'll be painted all right!

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
8/18/19 11:08 a.m.

After todays runs and testing, i have determined that the spoiler creates tpo much downforce. Can't get it to rotate properly, and instructor run confirmed. The sweet spot will be a cut down spoiler. Probably the legal 10 inches. 

sleepyhead the buffalo
sleepyhead the buffalo Mod Squad
8/18/19 12:46 p.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

I probably can't convince you to build a wing on the front, off of the tow-bar to balance out... so, too much it is

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
8/18/19 2:19 p.m.

In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :

Yeah, no front wing. And im out of budget for a splitter....

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
8/18/19 2:21 p.m.

1/8” Luan?? surprise

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
8/18/19 2:28 p.m.

In reply to SVreX :

And chunks of 2x4!

stafford1500
stafford1500 Dork
8/19/19 5:05 p.m.
sleepyhead the buffalo said:
Robbie said:
sleepyhead the buffalo said:

Erm, what book is that and what other books do you suggest for aero?

Race Car Aerodynamics: Designing for Speed, Joseph Katz

It gives a top level review of aerodynamics, and then delves into the particulars of race cars.  It's the only "road vehicle" aerodynamics book that I have, so I tend to skim it and go digging for the data I want... and it's a good start... being widely available and only ~$30.  In the process of digging in Katz, and looking through the references in it (especially about spoilers) it indicates a lot of the data it is using comes from "Hucho", which is now...

Aerodynamics of Road Vehicles, Fifth Edition, edited by Thomas Christian Schuetz

 which at 500+ pages, I suspect has the kind of data that I want to go digging into... to access previously performed experiments to use to extrapolate out designs from.  At $200-odd dollars (~$100 older rev used versions), and that kind of "heft", 'ARV' is maybe a bit much of a first jump?

Considering your playing around with Javafoil, and cambered constant thickness wings... you might look at picking up...

Theory of Wing Sections, Abbott & von Doenhoff

It has a lot of good explanation of the first ~60 years of airfoil development... the approaches taken, plus test results (basically up until PC's spelled took over for airfoil design).  It is the "original book of wings sections", plus it's got some good aero theory in it.

I've heard good things about Simon McBeaths' 'Competition Car Aerodynamics'... but I don't have it, and haven't looked through it; so I can't comment on it.

another resource to go digging around in is... mulsannescorner
you can look through individual car pages, but another thing to not overlook is digging through the "News Archive"... but the site became a bit more static around 2016 or so, and I think the discussion has moved to a closer facebook group of the same name.  But, if you're trying to piece together "why things are the way they are"... MC is a good place to go digging around if you've got some spare minutes and an internet connection.

Sleepyhead, those are all good references and on my shelf. I also have a few books on small scale aerodynamics that include data for things like model aircraft and a pair of books that basically summarize the aero development work before world war 2 named Fluid Dynamic Lift/Drag. Lots of empirical data that can/should be considered for cars.

I was out of contact for a few weeks and just now am getting caught up enough to post anything.

Michael did call/text and ask my opinion of his spoiler and my suggestion was run it and see what happens. Seems to have worked well enough. Now we need him to do a skid pad test and see whats up.

Michael, use the cutoff section from the spoiler as your splitter. It does not have to be perfectly shaped to the profile of the car to do some work creating downforce.

sleepyhead the buffalo
sleepyhead the buffalo Mod Squad
9/2/19 1:21 p.m.
stafford1500 said:

Sleepyhead, those are all good references and on my shelf. I also have a few books on small scale aerodynamics that include data for things like model aircraft and a pair of books that basically summarize the aero development work before world war 2 named Fluid Dynamic Lift/Drag. Lots of empirical data that can/should be considered for cars.

Hoerner?  

Yeah, I agree... but it looks like only one volume is available via the web these days?  And they’re expensive... so, I wasn’t certain about recommending them.

I had a major jonesing for the AR-5 in college, so I knew about them from some of the interviews Arnold had given about its development.  SleepyMom & Dad were nice enough to gift me a copy when I got out of school, or for Senior year.  They are definitely good stuff.

 

 

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