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Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/1/17 12:55 p.m.

Wait a tick!

Your Fiat is a manual... your Merc was undergoing a headgasket repair... What are you doing swimming in ATF that I don't know about???

Mezzanine
Mezzanine Dork
9/1/17 3:41 p.m.

The headgasket Mercedes gets fresh trans fluid and filter - the ATF lines to the cooler that is internal to the radiator have been open to atmosphere for almost a year and it was just plain due. So I did it and swam in ATF.

crankwalk
crankwalk Dork
9/1/17 3:52 p.m.
BrokenYugo wrote: Right, pumping the pedal does nothing on a constant velocity carb. If you have to floor it to get a hot restart that's usually indicative of the hot engine heat soaking the carb, boiling the fuel in the bowl and depositing it it into the manifold, the engine basically floods itself sitting still. Not much you can do about that (aside from moving away from the equator), just the nature of the beast.

It's in my owners manual that this is completely normal and SOR for my Land Cruiser even in our super mild summers here. And I'm pretty doggone far from the equator.

I even have a carb cooling fan as original equipment. Perhaps there is a part to retrofit there for you?

Woody
Woody MegaDork
9/1/17 9:35 p.m.

How about fabricating a heat shield?

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
9/1/17 10:10 p.m.

In reply to Woody:

That might help, I tried this once by simply putting foil tape on the part of a float bowl on a V6 that faced the water neck, not sure what difference it made as we insulated the fuel lines on that car at the same time, one or the other helped a little with the hot starts. You can also try insulating the fuel lines inside the engine bay (this also helps with vapor lock), but I think there's too much heat stored in the engine to eliminate it completely.

I'd be willing to bet that Bill's idea of a turbo timer on the electric fan would probably be most effective, get some of the heat out of everything rather than try to keep it out of one place. You probably don't see this done often as most carbed cars don't have electric fans.

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/1/17 10:20 p.m.
Mezzanine wrote: The headgasket Mercedes gets fresh trans fluid and filter - the ATF lines to the cooler that is internal to the radiator have been open to atmosphere for almost a year and it was just plain due. So I did it and swam in ATF.

You know, when I woke up this morning I had a "durp" moment I remember us talking about that a while back.

Good times

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/1/17 10:25 p.m.

The carb does have a little heat shield, but it's not a cross flow head so the exhaust sits right below the intake (seriously guys? By the 1960's you knew better!). I have the delay circuit on order so we'll give that a try but I was thinking the same thing as Yugo: Instead of trying to make one cool spot in an otherwise hot and enclosed environment, I'd try to cool the entire enclosure just enough to make things not terrible.

That land rover fan idea Crankwalk mentioned, and insulating the fuel lines (saw some fuel line insulation stuff on summit) will be my next go to, I think.

(followed by EFI swap, if I have to hit things with a hammer. But do I use the Pontiac TBI I have, or the GSXR 750 Throttle bodies? Decisions decisions... )

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/1/17 10:31 p.m.

Up at 3:50 in the morning with an idea. Since I've been plugging vacuum leaks, maybe that oil bath filter doesn't flow very well (oil weight too high or something) and I'm just drawing a lot of vacuum now and that's why the transmission went all cattywampus.

So I pop the ducting off the carb and give her a lap around the block. Nope.

Back on all that goes (which is a good thing, really.)

After discussing the issue on the other thread I had a list of three things to check today:

  • Kinked vacuum hose from manifold to trans (it would hold vacuum during my previous test, but the trans wouldnt see it)

  • Throttle linkage adjust. (foot to the floor, arm on transmission all the way forward)

  • Electric actuator at the trans (the one the button under the gas actuates). Does it see voltage at the switch?

I got as far as #2. The vacuum line wasn't plugged, and it still held vacuum.

The throttle linkage on the other hand? Well...

20170902_051239

20170902_051521

20170902_051529

(that was just to try to capture the fact that the head spins on the vacuum actuator. I'm sure that's normal for this unit)

Next up is foot to the floor and adjust the lever on the trans. And I dont care what the damn movies say, that's way harder than it looks. No amount of bricks in any arrangement would hold that down (or break it's stride, oh no. It had to keep on movin...)

Lucky for me I snagged a broken piece of nylon tube recently

20170902_053856

20170902_054125

From there I crawled back underneath the car and saw the lever, but didn't see any way of adjusting the linkage (other than changing its position on the spline). I looked underneath the hood again and saw the adjustment point I was looking for (in an awful awful location) and I immediately noticed that it was almost at the end of its adjustment in the "tighter" direction.

If my shifter adjusting is any indication, that means there's a missing pushing (see? I can learn things!)

20170902_054334

20170902_054348

20170902_055216

That zip tie was the best I could possibly do to try to fill that gap(no really, the access is terrible!). I really didn't expect much to happen but...

(you know what I'm going to say, don't you?)

IT WORKED!!!! I got a shift out of it. It was just once, but we got it to shift!!!!

Ok, now, I need to think of a more permanent solution... Shipping here takes way too long. It's the correct long term fix (and I'll do it) but I need something to keep this thing moving for a few weeks until the parts get here.

and I also need a nap. I'm tired.

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/2/17 2:00 a.m.

Looks like crap but shifts. I'll take it:

Woody
Woody MegaDork
9/2/17 6:00 a.m.

Would there be a difference in the time that it takes a vendor to ship something there and, say perhaps, for a guy in Connecticut to find the stuff you need and mail it to you?

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/2/17 10:38 a.m.

Woody, you are my hero for offering.

Before your post I actually put everything on order. I have a carb spacer, new intake boot, carb gaskets, output shaft seal, and a handfull of various bushings on order. Total out the door was $200 (including the delay circuit).

To answer your question though, I'm not sure. Shipping at the beginning of this thread was under two weeks. Recently I had an amazon order take a month

I think it all just depends on the alignment of the stars when the stuff gets to it's APO spot in Chicago.

I did some road/confidence testing today. Shifter is working! Of course it wasn't until after I was 10 minutes down the highway that I realized that I left the jack, stands, and zip ties at home (much finger crossing followed).

The carb even seems to be working better. I'm blaming the holes in the ducting for most of its bad behavior, (it no longer coughs and tries to die if you run it before it's completely warmed up) but it has warm restart issues where it doesn't like to idle until after you drive it for about 2-minutes. Eh, more to follow on that one. I'm going to bask in the glory of a working transmission for a minute.

Mezzanine
Mezzanine Dork
9/5/17 3:22 p.m.

Can bubba fix it temporarily if you remove the shift lever from the transmission? I see in the photo that the lever/arm looks to be attached to a shaft on the side of the trans. Might it be easier to gain access to the bushing if you can take the whole E36 M3tery out first? I can think of lots of things that would serve pretty well as a temporary fix, including the zip ties you're already using, perhaps a toothpaste tube cap, some old socks. Whatever, really. cheeky

crankwalk
crankwalk Dork
9/5/17 3:51 p.m.
Hungary Bill said:

The carb does have a little heat shield, but it's not a cross flow head so the exhaust sits right below the intake (seriously guys? By the 1960's you knew better!). I have the delay circuit on order so we'll give that a try but I was thinking the same thing as Yugo: Instead of trying to make one cool spot in an otherwise hot and enclosed environment, I'd try to cool the entire enclosure just enough to make things not terrible.

That land rover fan idea Crankwalk mentioned, and insulating the fuel lines (saw some fuel line insulation stuff on summit) will be my next go to, I think.

(followed by EFI swap, if I have to hit things with a hammer. But do I use the Pontiac TBI I have, or the GSXR 750 Throttle bodies? Decisions decisions... )

FYI it's a LandCruiser fan if you are looking for one and while they knew better in the 1960's my *1987* still had the same setup.

Reflective heat tape on the hardlines isn't a bad idea either.

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/7/17 12:43 a.m.
Mezzanine said:

Can bubba fix it temporarily if you remove the shift lever from the transmission? I see in the photo that the lever/arm looks to be attached to a shaft on the side of the trans. Might it be easier to gain access to the bushing if you can take the whole E36 M3tery out first? I can think of lots of things that would serve pretty well as a temporary fix, including the zip ties you're already using, perhaps a toothpaste tube cap, some old socks. Whatever, really. cheeky

The zip ties seem to be holding up pretty well.  I can remove the arm at the shaft and that would drop it a little at the transmission side, but it's a solid shaft that runs almost all the way to the front of the engine and the linkage is hidden kind of between the ac compressor and the exhaust manifold and the engine (like a three point wedge, because German...).  That's the part I REALLY need to get undone to get good access at this beast (I'd be able to push it aft, and subsequently, down and out of the tunnel).  I'll stare at it a bit and see what sort of head-scratching I can do.   Definitely going to have to be done on a cold engine though...

 

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/7/17 12:47 a.m.
crankwalk said:
Hungary Bill said:

The carb does have a little heat shield, but it's not a cross flow head so the exhaust sits right below the intake (seriously guys? By the 1960's you knew better!). I have the delay circuit on order so we'll give that a try but I was thinking the same thing as Yugo: Instead of trying to make one cool spot in an otherwise hot and enclosed environment, I'd try to cool the entire enclosure just enough to make things not terrible.

That land rover fan idea Crankwalk mentioned, and insulating the fuel lines (saw some fuel line insulation stuff on summit) will be my next go to, I think.

(followed by EFI swap, if I have to hit things with a hammer. But do I use the Pontiac TBI I have, or the GSXR 750 Throttle bodies? Decisions decisions... )

FYI it's a LandCruiser fan if you are looking for one and while they knew better in the 1960's my *1987* still had the same setup.

Reflective heat tape on the hardlines isn't a bad idea either.

I'm really wondering if I should keep muscling through this carburetor (I still can not find a choke coil.  I may try just ordering one for a weber and comparing dimensions) or if I should start considering EFI options...

I'm worried about the potential downward spiral of modifications if I go EFI though...

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/7/17 12:55 a.m.

In other news, I find myself on familiar ground laugh








Two more cans of refrigerant.  I know it's hard to tell on the meat thermometer, but it was almost 60deg F before and almost down to 40 deg F after.  Definitely a lot nicer to drive.  I guess now I know my leak rate cheeky

Good times

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/7/17 1:05 a.m.

I call these "Someone had a bad day yesterday"

I'm working second shift and saw droplets of what I thought was water on my windshield after my drive home.  When I woke up the next morning...




 

When I washed my car, it also appears I drove through some sort of adhesive...  (front right tire only)



Good times

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/7/17 1:07 a.m.

I call this one "Now would be a very good time to get off the sidewalks" devil

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/7/17 1:07 a.m.

Parking at work

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/7/17 6:57 a.m.

re carburetor:

 

It coughed and died in traffic at a stoplight coming off the highway...  angry

 

No question.  EFI swap is now in the works.  I'll run it as is 'till then.

Mezzanine
Mezzanine Dork
9/7/17 11:42 a.m.
Hungary Bill said:

No question.  EFI swap is now in the works.  I'll run it as is 'till then.

Woah there partner...Can we try a replacement carb before you go to the nuclear option? You know how much I hate carbs, but I also know that a EFI swap is not a weekend project. It's the right solution, but short term, a carb should be good enough to work.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn UltimaDork
9/7/17 1:26 p.m.

When I washed my car, it also appears I drove through some sort of adhesive...  (front right tire only)

Hopefully it can be cleaned off with some tar and bug remover, or equivalent.

Yesterday there was an incident in Minneapolis out on one of the freeways...a concrete truck dropped its load during rush hour, and a bunch of cars drove through the fresh concrete it dumped on the road.  THAT will be fun to clean off. 

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/7/17 1:50 p.m.
stuart in mn said:

When I washed my car, it also appears I drove through some sort of adhesive...  (front right tire only)

Hopefully it can be cleaned off with some tar and bug remover, or equivalent.

Yesterday there was an incident in Minneapolis out on one of the freeways...a concrete truck dropped its load during rush hour, and a bunch of cars drove through the fresh concrete it dumped on the road.  THAT will be fun to clean off. 

OOh, brutal!  No, lucky for me a bit of simple green took it off with minimal fuss.  It was still gooey for some reason...

Easy money

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
9/7/17 2:23 p.m.
Mezzanine said:
Hungary Bill said:

No question.  EFI swap is now in the works.  I'll run it as is 'till then.

Woah there partner...Can we try a replacement carb before you go to the nuclear option? You know how much I hate carbs, but I also know that a EFI swap is not a weekend project. It's the right solution, but short term, a carb should be good enough to work.

I see your point.  Ok, so the motorcycle ITB's stay in the box and I'll meet you halfway with TBI laugh


Alright, funny stuff aside:

Short term, the carb I have now is good enough to work (especially since replacements seem to be unobtanium these days).  Any substitution to this carb is going to be near as difficult as an EFI swap and more expensive.  I think I can break down the EFI swap into stages that would allow the car to stay on the road and operational while I did them (ie:  Install the wideband one day, the coolant sensor another, RPM input another, and so on).

Also, I'm not sure if I mentioned this but I think I have most of the stuff to do an EFI swap already.  It's just stuck in customs still (did I mention that under that telescope there was a box of old brewing scraps I told the packers not to pack?  oops!)

I have:

- Throttle body (it's a TBI setup) from a Pontiac Fiero 4-cyl.  I believe it has the FPR built in on this model

- fuel pump from my Alfa GTV6

- MS3 with relay board and harness

- Wideband with controller and bung

- GM coolant sensor.


A few hurdles I have are:

- IAT sensor location (but I might have an idea on that)

- Air filter housing option/location, as the fiero uses a big round filter like you'd find on a carburetor.

- Driving while tuning (never done that before)

- Does the MS3 work with points ignition?  (I'm betting I'd just go to the coil for tach input)

- Throttle cable and bracket install (it's all a solid mechanical linkage on this I think.  It's so weird!  More inspecting is needed)

Bonus points:

- I still have the motorcycle ITB's for a sweet setup down the line

So yeah... I'm really thinking this just might happen.  devil

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
9/9/17 12:05 p.m.

Could you lock the timing (wire/zip tie the advance mechanism at full retard) and use the points as an ignition trigger? They should last approximately forever at the greatly reduced current and computer controlled spark is nice (and you get way hotter spark than a points setup can deliver).

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