1974 TVR 2500M driver restoration

Didn't make it as far with the suspension today but over all it's been a good weekend of progress. Started Saturday afternoon on the drivetrain, working my way from the back to the front.

Everything went reasonably well. The biggest pain in the ass were the nylock nuts on the axle shafts. Super stuck on and barely enough room to slip a wrench on between the u-joints. To give you an idea of how getting those off went for me, I broke a tang off the open end of one of the wrenches I was using and had to go buy another one. In the end they all yielded and the pumpkin and driveshaft came out!

From there it was on to the transmission which meant I had to drop the exhaust first.

I wish it had some "Turbo Power." This won't be going back on but I may keep it around to throw on something else in the future.

Exhaust manifold flange. Showed evidence of having been fought with in the past- had two studs, one bolt which came out and one corner had nothing at all. I was very pleased with how easily the down pipes separated from the manifold once I got all the hardware off.

Transmission pulled, but frame not high enough to clear the bellhousing and I'm out of lifting devices!

Despite the minor quandary in my previous posts pulling the engine was inconsequential once I cleared any straggling wires, etc. Everything from the engine on back that contained oil/fluid has a healthy coating on the outside as well, so new seals are going to be required throughout.

I had rolled the chassis back and then to the other side of the garage to have room to use the engine hoist. Once all that was done reversed process and put it back under the body for further stripping. Snapped a shot in the daylight.

As I said I intended to tackle the suspension today but ended up not being able to spend much time on it. One reason is I decided to treat myself to a garage addition:

It's not quite as large as would be ideal but should handle 90% of what I want it to do for 60% of the cost. Sold the wife on it by being able to do a lot of the body and some chassis prep for paint instead of paying the shop to do it. I have a scaler as suggested by Slow on order as well as a few other pieces.

I did get a little work done though. For one I went around all 4 corners and got all the fasteners cooking in PB Blaster. I starter after the rear then and got some hardware off as well as the brake drums. Then things got more serious. Got the right rear axle out. Before I learned it was a splined two-piece affair I was convinced the hub flange had to come off so I could pull the axle out towards the middle of the car. I mean it's keyed, so it has to come apart, right? Well using a two jaw puller and my electric impact resulted in this fail....

So it looks like I'll be buying a new hub assembly. Might just make it two as they house the wheel bearings and basically unserviceable without the special tool so it might be good to change them. We'll see how spendy I get.

Anyway here's how that corner sits now. The threaded rods that run parallel through the bottom of the hub carriers are being very stubborn and I decided that was a good place to stop. Air hammer is on the way; I'm hopeful that will persuade them more than I was able to today.

   Greetings!  I just found your build thread.  I'm surprised slow M or TVR Scott didn't bring it to my attention, since we have the same car and are going down the same road!  Like Scott, my car was a sorry-looking non-runner when I got it, but I got it for a song so not a problem.  Unlike Scott's, my 2500m seems to have suffered little abuse other than neglectful storage for a couple of decades.  I have upgraded several components, and will continue to, but intend to stick with the TR6 engine and gearbox.  By the way, that seems like a lot for blasting the frame to me, as I had it done locally (NC) for 1/3rd that!  Your car looks 100% nicer than mine on the outside, but your naked frame photos look surprisingly similar!  Good luck with the build;  I will be following it closely, and let me know if I can be of service with parts sourcing or just questions in general, as again, I'm going through the same process.  --Stu

Better to cut them flush and drill them out! Persuading them via force usually damages the cast uprights. 

In reply to Stu Lasswell :

We thought you were sleeping, and didn't want to wake you. Oh yeah, and why aren't you in the garage?!

In reply to Slow_M :

I concur with Bernard about just cutting them... I've not yet heard of anyone getting them out intact!  And I have been out in the garage working on my TVR.  I'll try to get some update photos to my thread soon!

Buying new hub assemblies will be money well spent.  I was reading about TR6s losing rear wheels back in the late 80s.  By now, the metal is too fatigued to trust on top of a poor stub axle design.  Send GoodParts some money and sleep better.

In reply to Stu Lasswell :

Thanks for the salutations! I have looked through your thread several times before starting for insights and ideas. Did that cost include paint as well or did you handle that personally? Interesting you mentioned the engine. I too plan on just mildly spicing up the 6 as well, but I have an aluminum 215 V8 in pieces waiting to be used for something. I think that's more project than I'm looking for and honestly have enjoyed listening to the Triumph engine.

Thanks for the input on the carrier through-bolts Stu and Slow. I got both sides of the rear off the frame now so I'll be able to find a place to take them too pretty soon and I can work on the front in the meantime. Looks like I'll be adjusting the budget for new hubs as well. I would prefer to stay 4-wheeled at all times.

I've started planning for electrical. After looking at available options for a new harness I was going to purchase a reproduction harness from Autosparks. Due to the Covid resurgence in England their lead time is presently 14 weeks and growing. There weren't any other companies I felt particularly sold on so I'm leaning towards purchasing the wiring myself and doing my own. I've gotten a few wiring diagrams to reference including Autosparks'. Anyone have any recommendations on other vendors before committing to doing my own harness?

In reply to ViperT4 :

British Wire in Bally PA tries to stock all of the English colour code and diameter wire. They might be having some supply problems like everyone right now, but you should try them. The price is good, and being able to match the original colours makes trouble shooting worlds easier. They might even have a ready to fit harness fro the car. Trouble there though because it will also use the original style "Lucar" connectors, which are the very worst of Lucas crap, so better to buy wire and build your own with weatherpak connectors where ever wire joins wire.

Welcome to British Wiring - classic British car wiring harnesses and components

TurnerX19 said:

In reply to ViperT4 :

British Wire in Bally PA tries to stock all of the English colour code and diameter wire. They might be having some supply problems like everyone right now, but you should try them. The price is good, and being able to match the original colours makes trouble shooting worlds easier. They might even have a ready to fit harness fro the car. Trouble there though because it will also use the original style "Lucar" connectors, which are the very worst of Lucas crap, so better to buy wire and build your own with weatherpak connectors where ever wire joins wire.

Welcome to British Wiring - classic British car wiring harnesses and components

Good link for wiring.  I was planning on building my own harness, though the idea of something plug-ish and play-ish sounds appealing at the moment.  Mind you, my car wouldn't need a stock full harness, just the body-related components.

   I'm glad to hear that you will be keeping the TR6 engine, although from a performance perspective there are lots of better power/weight options.  But then it just wouldn't be a 2500M anymore, and that inline 6 does have a sweet sound!  As to wiring, I am also planning to re-wire myself.  Although I do appreciate the way all British wiring uses a common standard color-coding system, I'm planning on just getting a generic "hot rod"wiring kit from one of the American suppliers.  They use a much better fuse block and connector system, and the wires are both color-coded and labeled (like "Left Tail-light") every 6" or so.  I'm also eliminating extraneous (to me) wiring like courtesy light door jamb switches, seatbelt warning light/buzzer, brake warning switch... anything I don't think I'll need.   

   As to the rear upright, I had a local machine shop cut out that lower shaft; it's unlikely that it can be saved, and you can't get the lower a-arm off without removing it, obviously. If it's a full service shop like I used, they had 1/2" bar stock and a threading machine and were able to make up new shafts to replace them.  The upper ones probably won't want to come out either, but I just chased the threads and left them in place... I don't see them as likely to fail unless the corrosion is excessive.  Keep us apprised as to your progress, or concerns!

Stu Lasswell said:

   I'm glad to hear that you will be keeping the TR6 engine, although from a performance perspective there are lots of better power/weight options.  But then it just wouldn't be a 2500M anymore

I emailed British Wiring today and they said they could supply a bone stock reproduction harness for $575.  Lead time is late spring.  They were not interested in making a modified one for my needs.

In reply to TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) :

Hey Scott, was that "frowny face" for me?  I love what you're doing with your TVR, I just was thinking that this one is too close to original to be turned into something else... your car needed a heart transplant (and a lot more) and I'm 100% in favor of the direction you've taken.

Small update to push the thread forward. I got the chassis fully stripped down. I used the air scaler to clean up most of the surface and I was pretty pleased with things. Everything seemed pretty strong. I was really surprised at the amount of shiny metal just underneath the surface rust. So either it seems I have a pretty healthy frame or it already has a lot of new metal in it.

Somewhat on the disappointing side is almost all of the suspension mounting tabs and one engine mount is pretty mangled and crooked. I think I'm probably going to have to have them cut out and new tabs welded in, unless anyone has dealt with this issue before.

I dropped the frame and control arms off at the blaster today so I will at least get it fully cleaned up and be looking for someone that can do those repairs in the meantime.

In reply to ViperT4 :

I had to do major surgery on my frame.  I doubled up all the suspension pick-up points, and had to repair ovalized holes.  And rusted tube repair.

I just posted a pic on my thread that happens to show pretty clearly the reinforced suspension mounts.  Let me know if you have questions.

I found the sandblasting punched thru the really thin spots, so if you have any like that you'll likely find out.

Good progress!

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to ViperT4 :

I had to do major surgery on my frame.  I doubled up all the suspension pick-up points, and had to repair ovalized holes.  And rusted tube repair.

I just posted a pic on my thread that happens to show pretty clearly the reinforced suspension mounts.  Let me know if you have questions.

I found the sandblasting punched thru the really thin spots, so if you have any like that you'll likely find out.

Good progress!

Thanks! I'm curious what'll turn up when all the rust is knocked off but I think all signs are positive so far.

I went back to earlier in your thread when you installed your reinforcements and I think those are exactly what I need to do. Would you have the ability and any interest in reproducing them? If so I'll give you my phone number and we can talk cost. It would probably save me much of the headache in finding a shop to do it

In reply to ViperT4 :

Yeah, I could probably cut some brackets out for you.  I'll need to check and see how my sheet-steel supply is looking.  I have a feeling it's getting a bit low.

In reply to TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) :

That would be terrific and much appreciated! Let me know when you would like to connect.

In reply to ViperT4 :

Just sent you a PM about this.

Not a whole lot of progress lately. The blast work revealed one area that had rusted through and a few dubious welds.

So off to the welder it went with instructions to repair the structural damage and straighten and reinforce the suspension mounts. Rather than welding in additional tabs parallel to the original mounts he suggested gussets, as the factory used on the differential cradle, seen above.

Picked up the repair frame today and took it back to the blaster for clean up and then primer and paint.

I'll confess the welds aren't all works out art but they all look complete, which is something not all of the factory work could claim.

I also found a machine shop willing to work on the the rear bearing carriers and am happy to report they were able to free the rods. They had to cut them from the inside with a torch, then drill from the sides and eventually were able to punch them in and remove them.

In the meantime I've been ordering parts so I can begin reassembly once the frame comes back from paint. Today I broke out my new sand blaster and started on the front suspension pieces. Turned out pretty well! Eventually they'll all get hit with black caliper paint. Except I like the look of the brass trunnions, I'll probably not paint those.

I'll add more pics of the shiny new parts I bought as they are reassembled.

Looking good!

Waiting on word from the paint shop that the chassis is finished, so working on more of the running gear in the meantime. Mostly I've been stripping parts and painting but I got the new front hubs assembled. I ordered the uprated units with larger bearings from Rimmer Brothers. Here's a side-by-side of the old and new spindle. Obviously much beefier. The seals had failed on the old front hubs and I couldn't get the driver side spindle out of the old upright, even after repeat blows with a 10-lb hammer, so these are going in upright assemblies I bought used and reconditioned.

Installed with freshly greased trunnion and new trunnion seal:

Those washers really threw me for a loop because I did not realize they would bend up like that. I tried installing them flat but they are spaced too wide for the bolts to line up with the upright. Curses of Moss Motors were uttered into a beer bottle and then standard flat washers were fitted, only to find that flat washers are too wide and interfere with the rotation of the disc/hub assembly. Re-examination yielded the solution and apologies to Moss were issued over a celebratory beer.

Examples of the new hub and my cheat sheet:

New brake disc bolted to the hub and rear bearing fitting and hub seal pressed in. I think these will fair a bit better than the felt-backed factory versions!

Final assemblies, looks pretty good cleaned up! These come with press on hub covers which seal with an o-ring. Should be much easier to remove in the future than the factory grease caps.

The instructions from Rimmer were to tighten the castle nut at the front of the hub to 20 ft-lb's and then back off half a flat, but anything close to that spec resulted in binding. So I just tightened until I felt resistance while turning the disc and backed it off to the next slot in the nut that let me insert the cotter pin. Anyone see an issue with this method?

I also begin disassembling the brake calipers. The first piston came out readily through the use of compressed air but I found it easier to split the calipers to get the second piston out. I don't really see what the hubbub with not splitting these is about if you look at the TR forums, unless it's just because the factory said not to do so. Perhaps the internal o-rings were not available until more recently? But I don't foresee an issue with putting these back together. 

Things look sufficiently gross on the inside. The piston seal inside the calipers all looked good so they still functioned, but the dust boots were not in great shape and the pistons were affected accordingly. You can see a fair amount of rust, and even if I could clean up the rust with finer sand paper there is pitting, so I'll be ordering all new everything for these.

One other inquiry.... since I'm changing the rear axle hubs for Good Parts versions I bought 6 new u-joints to replace in both the axles and the driveshaft. I've never changed a u-joint before but watched a couple videos and it seemed straightforward. So far I started with the driveshaft u-joints and the spider doesn't go one direction far enough to be able to separate it from the cap before the cross section butts against the u-joint housing. The cap starts to protrude from the housing but, at least on my first try, was still lodged too tightly to grab with a pliers and continue extracting. I'm not beyond grabbing my angle grinder and destroying these things but would rather do it correctly. Am I missing something? Or is it just a quirk of this car/TR's?

In reply to ViperT4 :

U joint removal of the type on your drive shaft is kind of a 2 stage affair. After you get the first cup poking out turn it around and get the opposite one poking out similarly. Then shake the spider back and forth between them until some rollers fall out of place and begin to restrict the motion. The displaced rollers now give you an internal spacer to completely press out the cup on which ever side they fell. Works a treat!