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ClemSparks
ClemSparks PowerDork
5/8/18 5:37 p.m.

About no rear brakes.  Your safety/proportioning combo valve has tripped.  It's locking out the rear brakes.  Gotta run but can add details later.

 

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/8/18 6:52 p.m.

In reply to ClemSparks :

Hmm I've never heard about that but I guess it would make sense. Can one "un-trip" the valve to let it work or do I need a new one all together? 

This seems like a fairly stupid "feature" because why would it lock half the brakes out isn't that dangerous?

Thanks for the information I'm going to look into it

EDIT: I found how to reset it and will let you guys know how it goes when I get around to doing it. Thanks again

EDIT 2: So I have been ignoring an issue with my front suspension/fenders. Since my new wheels and tires are 4" taller than the stock ones I had, they are rubbing slightly on the front. Currently I have 3-ish turns lock to lock on the steering wheel while the normal range is close to 5.5 turns. They are rubbing slightly on the inner fender (they clear the outer fender fine) what can I do to let it clear the inner fender without cutting the fenders or removing the inner fenders all together? I also assume that it'll rub a whole lot more during the autocross since it'll be braking and steering at the same time making the suspension do funny things.

I also have a question on suspension for the autocross. I was talking to Stampie about sway bars or just stiff springs (and which springs to get) and I think I might just go with stiff springs since a sway bar will be too much work when I think I can get away with springs. Here's my question:

Stock spring rate is: 530lbs/in

the MOOG 5662 someone had recommended is: 748lbs/in

I can get some full-size truck springs (off a c/k truck) at the swap meet for $20 or so and they are around: 843lbs/in

I am wondering if 

A: the full size springs will fit in place of my stock springs.

B: if the spring rate on the full size springs is too much for the S10.

C: if I want to lower the truck is it frowned upon cutting the springs on stiffer springs?

I am trying to get a 2-3" drop fr/rr because it looks cool imo and I already have 2" lowering blocks on the back. I don't want it to have Cali Stance (tall front, low back) since the stiffer springs will keep the front around stock height even with the new engine/trans.

Thanks again for the help

ClemSparks
ClemSparks UltimaDork
5/8/18 8:56 p.m.
gabecar3 said:

In reply to ClemSparks :

Hmm I've never heard about that but I guess it would make sense. Can one "un-trip" the valve to let it work or do I need a new one all together? 

This seems like a fairly stupid "feature" because why would it lock half the brakes out isn't that dangerous?

 

Well, I didn't know it could happen until I was almost 40, so I guess you're ahead of the curve ;).  It's a safety feature because if you have no pressure on one side of the system (which is what happens when you have a leak) it will fail safe to the side of the system that still holds pressure...allowing you to stop.  This is preferable to pumping all the fluid out of the leak until you have no brakes.

When I first learned about this it was on a car with a valve that had been tripped for...who knows...likely 10+ years.  I couldn't get it to reset (probably seized up) so I had to replace it.  Not something you'll want to have in a challenge budget.  

Funny how bleeding brakes looks just like a leak to this safety valve.  

barefootskater
barefootskater Reader
5/8/18 11:44 p.m.

In reply to gabecar3 :

I'd try (did on my s10, and dailied it for a year that way) cutting the stock springs. It effectively raises the spring rate and costs nothing. If it's not stiff enough for you it'll at least give you an idea of what a stiffer spring will do when trimmed.

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/9/18 7:50 a.m.

In reply to barefootskater :

If I keep the stock springs swapping an SBC and 4L80E will lower it around 2" or more so I won't have to cut the stock springs since the weight added with compress the springs; unless of course I want it slammed but I can't slam the back because I don't have 3-4" blocks. 

I was thinking about stiffer springs for the autocross not so much ride (i could just heat the springs to lower it 3" if I didn't care about handling). I'll try cutting the stock ones once the SBC/80E are in if I want it lower and see how that handles. 

Thanks for the help

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
5/9/18 8:27 a.m.

In reply to ClemSparks :

Should be free to budget as a stock brake component. 

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/9/18 8:35 a.m.

In reply to Stampie :

True I hadn't thought about that. I guess replacing it wouldn't be a bad thing budget-wise.

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/10/18 8:03 p.m.

Quick thanks to barefootskater and angrycorvair the BFH and heat worked great to get the rusted drum off. And i see the use for putting the lug nuts back on.

So is it recommended to change the drums out on both sides or just send it?

Also i have some questions regarding NHRA rules/Challenge rules:

If i plan on running a low-11 in the 1/4 i need a roll bar correct? 

If i want to run harnesses (the belts in my truck are basically non-existent) i need a harness bar. Does anyone know how i can make one?

Thanks for the help, 

Gabe

Fladiver64
Fladiver64 New Reader
5/11/18 5:00 p.m.

https://orlando.craigslist.org/pts/d/383-stroker-small-block-chevy/6585198680.html I think his price is high so may work some negotiation, cash talks.

 

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/11/18 5:32 p.m.

In reply to Fladiver64 :

It's interesting but unless he can negotiate down to $300 or less it won't work with my current budget unless I keep it N/A but that means it'll have like 400hp max...

Thanks for the link though I'm still looking around for a short block for around $100. I had a 350 Vortec to look at for $100 but my parents went out of town so I won't be seeing it this weekend most likely. Its in Orlando though so not to far but we'll see.

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/12/18 8:08 p.m.

5/12/18 - ENGINE UPDATE

I bought another SBC (a Vortec 305) for $50 from a local guy here in Orlando. I won't be using the Vortec heads because they need valves (a couple of the valves are burnt) and they are full of sludge (not metal or water in the oil but its caked up oil from what I think is lack of oil change and using conventional oil). It allegedly got a blown head gasket (passenger side) but was parked right after it blew and was swapped with a built 350 the guy had laying around. I found a little bit of coolant in cyl6 (i think) which is seen by some rusty water on the cylinder wall. Since it's only been blown for a couple weeks there is no rust on the cylinder walls as far as I can tell but I'll look more into it tomorrow since i only got around to pulling the heads a couple hours ago. I dropped the oil pan and other than some ugly looking oil it doesn't have metal or any of the sludge in the heads and valley so I think the bottom end is good (I'm going to pull some rod caps to see the bearings tomorrow). 

Also I was told that this is a 70's 305 with '93 Vortec heads swapped on but a couple things that I am questioning:

The most obvious is that Vortec heads didn't come out until '96 as far as I know so there is either wrong information or GM made Vortec style heads before '96 and I happen to have found the only set of of pre-96 Vortec heads known to man...

Second if this is a 70's bottom end wouldn't the block be drilled and tapped for a mechanical fuel pump? The block I have has the boss for the mechanical pump but it isn't drilled to have a mechanical pump which means I have to use an electric pump.

It also allegedly has a roller cam (I haven't checked yet) but again I don't know about GM using a roller cam stock until the LT1's in Camaro's and Vette's (early 80's?)...

These are just a few of the weird things i saw about it in the ad but the less the guy actually knew about it the cheaper I could get it for so...

Here are a couple of pictures of the engine my dad took when we grabbed it:

You can kind of see all the crap in the valley

Stampie you think we could have pulled that 350 quicker if we had a forklift? lol the guy who sold me the engine works on semi trucks and drives semi's so they use a forklift to lift the engines and rear ends out of the trucks.

The minivan doing what Honda originally designed the odyssey for...

What are y'all's opinion on taking the crank and rods out of the 305 and putting 350 pistons on it and using the 350 block I have to make a 327?

I have all the parts to put both together (other than a couple std size pistons) and the 350 block I think is in better condition than the 305 plus I'll have to pull the 305 all apart to clean the sludge so the parts will get taken out and re-installed anyway but idk if i want to use the 305 block or make it a 327. 

Making a 327 would also let me use a mechanical pump since the 305 block doesn't have the place to put a mechanical pump...

What are the pro's and con's of making a 327?

Thanks for reading through the entire post and for any ideas, advice, and comment you can give me,

Gabe

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
5/12/18 8:57 p.m.

I can't tell from the pictures but do the heads have the saw tooth on the front edge?  I'm all for you buying me a fork lift. 

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/12/18 9:05 p.m.

In reply to Stampie :

I will check tomorrow but I didn't see one but I also didn't look to hard cuz it's caked in grease and dirt. 

hahaha when I win the lottery I'll buy you a forklift. lol

barefootskater
barefootskater Reader
5/12/18 10:20 p.m.

If I remember correctly, the 305 and 350 have the same stroke. A quick google confirms. So using a 305 crank in a 350 block will still be 350ci. 

Possible it is a 70s spec block, bought as a crate after the fact... and you are correct on 96 being the introduction of the Vortec heads. If it is a true vortec motor, the 305 will have a roller cam. There are ups and downs, but the small bore 305 is never seen in performance applications, and I think the simple reason is for the same cost to rebuild, why not have 45 more inches? More inches is better. Always.

The nice thing from all of this is you can probably use the good crank (hopefully) from the 305 in the 350 from Stampie. I don't know how that works with challenge budget, but it'll work. 

Awesome to watch the plan evolve and progress be made. Keep it up!

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/12/18 10:41 p.m.

In reply to barefootskater :

Hmm okay I thought they were different but makes sense... So I might just take the 305 rotating assembly and put it in the 350 block with some pistons and get a 350 with good internals. As for budget even budgeting the two $50 engines its $100 for a complete engine which is pretty good IMO and I can still sell the 305 block and the messed up crank and wtv I don't use to try to make up some $$. 

I'll probably go with the 305 internals in the 350 since the extra 45ci is worth at least 30hp (60hp if i boost it) but we'll see. 

Thanks for the help it helps me figure out if what I'm thinking will work or not. 

I will let y'all know exactly what i end up doing tomorrow once all the parts are out and I see what I can use or not...

 

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
5/12/18 10:45 p.m.

In reply to barefootskater :

He could recover $50 from my engine (crank, pistons, rods) plus $50 from the 305 (everything but crank) and other than pistons, rods, and rebuild kit be zeroed out. I vote for high compression build. There's nothing like a high compression American V8. 

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/13/18 8:27 a.m.

In reply to Stampie :

That's what I'm thinking (putting all the bad parts together in the 305 block and sell it for $100 as a long block that needs work...)

Idk if i want to go high compression but need race gas or if I want to go turbo and use E85 when I want a lot of boost but pull boost out to run normal pump gas OR if I want to run 9:1 and spray it with NOS. 

Any pro/cons people can give me on turbo vs. high compression will be greatly appreciated.

Also I don't think a lot of people are running cams in their challenge cars but those of you who are:

where do you get the cams or do you just happen to get an engine with a cam?

maschinenbau
maschinenbau Dork
5/13/18 8:56 a.m.

With only 5 month until the Challenge, it will be less problematic to just get it running as a high compression N/A. There is plenty of work ahead of you besides just rebuilding an engine. It's smart to think ahead about the lower compression for turbo, but if you run out of time to do a turbo you are stuck with it. Nitrous could be cheaper and just as effective. 

For my $2016 LT1 car I found a pretty hot roller cam on craigslist still new in box for 100. The deals are out there, just keep your eyes open.

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
5/13/18 9:59 a.m.

Summit has a lot of inexpensive cam kits for SBC. 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim UltraDork
5/13/18 10:03 a.m.

Someone with more knowledge will hopefully chime in, but I think that even with the same stroke, there is a difference between 305 and 350 cranks that could make using a 305 crank in a 350 block a bit more complicated, maybe in the size of the counterweights?

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/13/18 12:51 p.m.

In reply to maschinenbau :

I know i can get a turbo kit working in 5months because I'm homeschooled and can work everyday for a few hours so I'm not as worried with time but i obviously don't want to start pulling stuff off the frame or anything like that. 

I'm going to look into the Cams on Craigslist and Summit but probably will stick to the stock one since its free lol.

From my research the 305 crank will bolt into a 350 block without issues other than pistons but I'm still doing my research

EDIT: I researched using a 305 crank with 350 pistons and from what everyone says is if you use stock stuff it'll have some vibration that will cause it to break after a couple thousand miles but if you run some lighter pistons (like the hypereutectic pistons I'm looking at) it won't have any issue. There are some guys who swear that a gram in difference will snap your crank and there are other guys that say they've run un-balanced 305/350 stuff for years and never had an issue. I'm thinking of just risking it since it is a challenge car and doesn't have to last that long.

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/14/18 9:49 a.m.

So I've been doing a lot of research and I realized that the 305 is a 1 piece rms while the 350 is a 2 piece rms... So I can't make a 350 with the parts I have as far as Google tells me.

I've decided to do a high-ish compression build with a "Mutha Thumper" cam and likely a 100-150shot for the 1/4.

Here are some of the things I'm having trouble figuring out:

Why are 305 pistons more expensive than 350 pistons? The cheapest hypereutectic 350 pistons I found are $95 for a full set by speed pro and the cheapest 305 hypereutectic pistons i've found are "Silv-o-lite" for $140... If anyone finds them cheaper let me know but I think it's strange that they are priced that differently...

Second, if I run nitrous in my truck what is the suggested location for the bottle (within the rules and obviously safe)? If I were to run nitrous what sort of safety equipment would I need to have? 

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
5/14/18 10:06 a.m.

looking into the lifter valley, i don't see any of the roller cam hardware.   :-(

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/14/18 10:16 a.m.

In reply to AngryCorvair :

Yeah I haven't pulled a lifter out of fear of the junk in the valley falling in but i don't see roller cam parts... But it's okay because a "Mutha Thumper" will solve that real quick...

Ram50Ron
Ram50Ron New Reader
5/14/18 4:43 p.m.
gabecar3 said:

Why are 305 pistons more expensive than 350 pistons? The cheapest hypereutectic 350 pistons I found are $95 for a full set by speed pro and the cheapest 305 hypereutectic pistons i've found are "Silv-o-lite" for $140... If anyone finds them cheaper let me know but I think it's strange that they are priced that differently...

The price difference is quite likely due to the fact that they make many more replacement pistons for the 350 than the 305. In manufacturing, generally the greater volume of a specific product you produce the greater chance you have to reduce cost of that product. As for your SBC woes, it's a shame you aren't in the Midwest, I have a very good friend who would pay you to take his old 305 away. It ate a set of rings, was bored and rebuilt to a 312 and then 2 years later replaced with a 383. It's been collecting dust for a couple years now.

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