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Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/25/17 8:31 p.m.

*hits echo pedal*

Iiiii Haaaave the Powerrrrrrrr!!!! - on.

*turns echo pedal off*

So after a few minutes of making the wire-nut last connections and checking to see that the wires that were not connected to anything (about a half dozen from the LeBaron harness- many of which will get used, but don't have mates on the stock rampage and 2 from the Rampage- one that I think has to do with the AC and another that I think is the water level warning light switch), I screwed the bulkhead connector back in, grabbed a battery, and hooked it up- and nothing happened. I then checked and found that the battery was mostly dead- so I grabbed a jump pack and hooked it up to the battery and turned it on- and lo and behold, the car has power. 

So far, everything that I tested seems to be working- outside of some of the lights I assume the bulbs are bad (there may be a problem with the front side marker circuit, not certain yet).  I even got brave and hit the starter- and it turned the engine over (coil is not hooked up nor are any of the injector connections- and of course no fuel...) solidly. 

So- I'm calling this a huge success so far. For now I'm going to leave the wire nuts in place until after I've gotten it started and can confirm that everything is connected to where it needs to be before soldering and shrink-wrapping the connections and wrapping up the wires and making everything nice and clean.

Pattyo
Pattyo New Reader
9/25/17 8:53 p.m.

Hell yeah!! Congrats man, I really hope you  can get this thing on the road sooner rather than later.

Dirtydog
Dirtydog Reader
9/25/17 8:55 p.m.

Hooray for life's little triumphs.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 UltimaDork
9/25/17 9:12 p.m.

Awsome!

Always likrd these trucks.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/26/17 8:53 a.m.

So, with the electrical for the time being at a good state (it's certainly not done- but as I said, I don't want to do any soldering until I have the car running and know that everything is connected properly) the next step is getting the fuel situation taken care of.

Yesterday I got under the truck and took a look at the fuel line routing and where it may be possible to put the fuel pump... and I'm starting to understand why someone who had done a similar swap over on the T-D forums had recommended getting a later vehicle's (they suggested a TBI Omni) fuel sending unit/pump assembly and swapping out a higher-flow pump. Space definitely is tight back by the tank, and finding a good place to put the pump will be a challenge.

Working on the list of things that I consider 'necessary' to get before I try starting the engine:

  • Hoses- water, fuel, and vacuum. Ideally once the cooling system is put together and the car running I won't have to take it apart again, so I should have the new hoses in place from the get -go.
  • Belts- less crucial, and I can get by initially with just the alt/water pump belt of which the one that came with the car looks fine, but they're dirt cheap and just a good idea
  • Fuel filter- not seeing one in the system as is, but obviously will be necessary
  • Thermostat- like the hoses, would prefer to not have to do anything with the cooling system after it's running if I can get away with it
  • Oil change- have no clue when the last one was done, so would be wise to do so before running the engine...

Going to figure out what the best balance of price & speed on the above is- obviously those are all things I should be able to get locally, but I'll pay a premium for it vs. picking them up from RockAuto but having to wait a few days for them, with Amazon probably falling in the middle.

Obviously I'll want to replace the plug wires, plugs, and likely the distributor- but those are all things that shouldn't be a problem to do after I have it running. Will have to see on the coil- most of what I've read says the factory coil is the best budget option, but I don't know what the condition of the one that came with the car is (it was sitting in the bed, and it's clear that it was out in the open and everything there got rained on...).

A question regarding the next steps once I have it running in stock form (minus the evap system), specifically ditching the computer boost control and going with a manual controller. Am I understanding it correctly that the computer controls actuation of the wastegate on the turbo itself via a solenoid? In ditching the computer, would I just need to hook the manual controller up to the wastegate vacuum line, or would I just not use the wastegate at all and need to get an aftermarket BOV?

Thanks!

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
9/26/17 11:38 a.m.

On the carb version, the fuel filter was in the engine bay.  On the EFI cars they typically mounted it next to the frame rail just past the outlet from the pump.  Realistically, anywhere in the system is fine as long as it is before the injectors and securely mounted.

You'll want to budget for new EFI-rated hose, the carb hoses won't work at those pressures.

The stock coil is sufficient upwards of 300hp.  Magnecore wires are a decent investment since you can get new ends under warranty, but anything that is not worn out and arcing is better than what might be on there.

For plugs, I would really recommend running a cooler heat range, the turbo cars generate a lot of combustion heat and I've never had any issues with one or two heat ranges colder (typically NGK GR-4's, Platinum plugs tend to fail quickly in those motors).

The ECU controls the wastegate via a solenoid, which is located on the passenger strut tower, the MAP sensor is mounted next to it, with the barometric read solenoid (the computer occasionally opens the MAP sensor to ambient air to determine the ambient air pressure to adjust the ECU tables accordingly).  Lots of info on GusMahon's and other sites about boost bleeds and other options, so I'll not repeat it all here.  I will say that depending on your boost goals, you likely will retain ECU control of the wastegate, but modify the signal with the boost valve to raise the boost levels.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/26/17 12:37 p.m.

In reply to Stefan :

Hmmm. OK, from what you said about the MAP and the barometric solenoid, the PO apparently didn't swap those over along with the car as there were no sensors over on that side and two plugs (one 3-prong and one 2) that I couldn't find anything that went to (but they traced back to the computer so I left them in the harness- glad I did). Guess I need to add a new MAP sensor and barometric read solenoid to my shopping list to get the engine running, unless I'm likely to eliminate them down the line anyway and should just not worry about it.

Will try and read up on GusMahon's site later today- can't get to it from my work computer, but can from my phone and obviously will be able to from home.

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
9/26/17 12:49 p.m.

You'll need the MAP sensor, its critical to how the engine adjusts the timing and fuel.  The two connectors you found are for the MAP (3-prong) and the solenoid (2-prong). 

Here's what you should have on the passenger strut tower area:

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/attachments/engine-turbo-block/35586d1279149128-vacuum-wastegate-trouble-2010-07-14-13.55.23.jpg

From right to left; MAP/Baro Read, EGR/Purge, Wastegate and Evap solenoids.

For your car, you'll only need the MAP/Baro and Wastegate solenoids

Here's a good post on leveraging Vacuum distribution blocks to simplify and clean up the vacuum line routing:

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f14/363281-installing-vacuum-blocks-84-93-t.html

Hope this helps and congrats on the electrical milestone!

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
9/26/17 1:15 p.m.

BTW, I would take the stock sender out of the Rampage and mount the pump to that with a generic firewall connector and some zip ties.

The stock internal pump for the turbo cars has the fuel pickup sock mount to the pump and the pump is held in place with clips/zip ties.

That's cheaper and faster than buying an Omni TBI assembly with a pump you can't use, a separate EFI-rated pump, etc.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/26/17 2:15 p.m.

In reply to Stefan :

OK, I just have a 'block' that has two solenoids on it, one with a vac line that runs to the turbo (presumably to the wastegate) and the other with vac lines that ran to the evap canister (so presumably the purge solenoid)- they're essentially these solenoids.

Looking on RockAuto, I can find the MAP sensor but can't find the barometric read solenoid- or perhaps it's called something different?

Hmmm. If I'm going to do that with the Rampage's sender I should probably just drop the tank and clean it out (had considered if I should anyway since I have no idea what's in it). I'll need to return the pump I have as well and get another that is made for sitting in the tank (one I have is inline/external). Would definitely solve my space problem though. My concern though is that at the moment there isn't a connector for the pump power to go through- the advantage of grabbing one from a later vehicle would be having that pump power connector in place. *sigh* I wish that the Jeep would behave, one of the junkyards not too far away has a few older Spirits that I could likely pull the sending unit/pump from to use...

 

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
9/26/17 2:31 p.m.

The baro solenoid is the same as the other solenoids, just mounted more closely with a different bracket, which holds the map sensor.

Luckily this is the same for all of the FWD 2.2/2.5 powered Chryslers from 1989-on, just the MAP sensor is different (all the turbo cars used the same MAP sensor after 87) so if you find one, grab it and you're good to go with the proper MAP sensor.

You can use the Evap/purge solenoid for the Baro one and plumb it in like the vacuum diagrams show.

Stampie
Stampie SuperDork
9/26/17 3:24 p.m.

Don't tell all the other "truck" competitors but this one is my favorite so far. 

Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/26/17 4:04 p.m.
Stampie said:

Don't tell all the other "truck" competitors but this one is my favorite so far. 

Thanks! Though it's my understanding that there is supposed to be another Rampage there as well- and I'd bet that it looks a lot better (dunno about having the Shelby front end or a turbo engine though)...

Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/26/17 4:09 p.m.

In reply to Stefan :

OK, that's good- I'll just repurpose the otherwise-unused evap solenoid to use as the barometric solenoid, I just need the MAP sensor.

Unfortunately, I'm not seeing any older TD vehicles either in the yards nearby or parts from any on CL nearby- and even Amazon doesn't seem to have any MAP sensors that look to ship out quickly... it looks like this may be my limitation on getting it running...

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
9/26/17 4:24 p.m.

I may have a MAP sensor in my cache of stuff.  I'll try to take a look tomorrow (its across town).

Stampie
Stampie SuperDork
9/26/17 9:47 p.m.

I wouldn't even know what models and years to look for but if you want to check the inventory at these two I'll grab a MAP this weekend if it helps.

http://www.acepickapart.com

http://gopullit.com

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
9/26/17 10:23 p.m.

Basically anything 87-92 with a 2.2/2.5L Turbo motor.

so Dodge Daytona, Shelby Charger, Shadow, Lancer, Caravan, Plymouth Sundance, Acclaim, Chrysler Lebaron, Lebaron GTS, etc.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/27/17 7:43 a.m.
Stefan said:

I may have a MAP sensor in my cache of stuff.  I'll try to take a look tomorrow (its across town).

Thanks, I appreciate it!

Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/27/17 8:42 a.m.
Stampie said:

I wouldn't even know what models and years to look for but if you want to check the inventory at these two I'll grab a MAP this weekend if it helps.

http://www.acepickapart.com

http://gopullit.com

Thanks for the offer- but I looked through the inventory and it doesn't look like they have any of the cars that would have the MAP on it. Unfortunately with the cars now getting to be in the 30-year-old range, they're getting harder to find in junkyards... frown

Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/27/17 9:27 a.m.

Thanks to the debacle trying to get the car inspected yesterday (ranted about it in minor rants...), I had to stay at work fairly late so didn't have time to get into as much as I would have liked. Since I knew I was short on time I took the opportunity to go through my bins of random parts to find a few things that I may want to use on the Rampage:

  • The two coil-overs I didn't use on the Fiero years back that may get used on the front of the Rampage
  • One of the tachs I got in a bin of stuff from eastsidemav when I started working on the El Camino
  • Inline fuel filter
  • The TBI/carb fuel pump from the same above bin of parts from eastsidemav. It won't be useful for actually running the truck, but I can use it to empty out the tank of as much of (likely what little, it sound empty) the gas is currently in the tank as I imagine what is there is likely more varnish than fuel

Also got the rear of the truck up on jack stands so I could get to the fuel tank and lines more easily. I'm still on the fence as to what I want to do regarding the fuel-pump situation. I can probably still use the out-of-tank in-line pump, but to do it well I will probably need to at least partially bypass the stock hard line- either by cutting out a section and moving it, or using stainless fuel line so I can locate the pump where it will be protected a bit on the underside of the car.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/27/17 9:30 a.m.
Stefan said:

Here's a good post on leveraging Vacuum distribution blocks to simplify and clean up the vacuum line routing:

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f14/363281-installing-vacuum-blocks-84-93-t.html

I had seen that post about the vacuum blocks, and it looks like a good idea- but also something I'm not sure makes sense to do in the Challenge budget. If I keep the Rampage around after the Challenge and work on fixing it up without the Challenge budget constraints it's something I'll definitely be considering doing.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/27/17 1:10 p.m.

So, after several days of going over and trying to figure out the best balance of parts to order , pricing, and shipping times, I put in an order for parts from both RockAuto and Amazon. They'll likely trickle in over the next week, which will give me time to work on other things.

Most of the parts were things mentioned above to get it going initially (hoses, t-stat, plug wires), but there were other things on closeout that I knew I'd need (engine & trans mounts, for example) that I also picked up.

Also decided to pick up an in-tank pump & the new tank seal.  Though I'm worried about being able to wire the pump up through the sender cover so that it doesn't leak fuel, it will save me a good bit of money (the in-tank pump was solidly less than the external, and I'd only need a few short runs of FI hose vs. all the hose necessary for the inline one). I'll still have the in-line for now in case the in-tank one doesn't work out- and as I mentioned above, I really should drop and somewhat clean out the tank to ensure that crap isn't getting into the fuel system.

This evening's tasks will focus on that as well as the rear end in general- unhooking and dropping the tank, removing the back part of the exhaust (that won't be used since it's the narrower pipe for the Rampage's engine), and removing the spare tire (it will likely go back on for the drive to the Challenge, but I need to see if the tire on it is any good or not at a minimum). If I somehow get all that done, I'll start to tackle the vacuum lines on the engine.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/27/17 2:16 p.m.

Something else that occurred to me that I will need to address: the battery.

The Rampage unfortunately didn't come with a battery, which means that I'll have to put one in the budget- but that also means that I can use whatever I want. While it would be nice to move the battery aft, I'm not sure that it would be worth the extra costs (wiring, cut-off switch) required to do so.

However, I remember a thread from a ways back about successfully using much smaller (like, the size my scooter uses...) batteries for Challenge cars- that would allow me to keep the battery in the stock location but lower the weight from it as well as reducing the crowding in the engine bay a bit. Anyone have any recommendations for what batteries might work for this? Thanks!

eastsidemav
eastsidemav SuperDork
9/27/17 2:34 p.m.

I used a $30-35 garden tractor battery from Walmart in my rallycross car for a few years.  As long as I drove it once a week or put it on a float charger, it was good to go.  I did let it go for too long once, and had to buy a replacement.  It started up a 2.4 engine just fine.

 

Edit:  The last one is still sitting in my garage, might still work, you're welcome to give it a try if you'll be up this way anytime soon.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun UltraDork
9/27/17 2:47 p.m.

In reply to eastsidemav :

I know we'll be up there at some point, but I don't know when exactly- and for the time being I still don't have a highway-worthy vehicle of my own. For now it's not a massive issue- I have enough batteries sitting in the garage to work for now, and hopefully I'll have it running soon enough and be able to head up there in it...

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