¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
You have exceeded the design parameters of this high quality German steering component, failure to purchase a new one is your own fault.
don't lie, you would have just JB welded that E36 M3 up and put it back together ;)
In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
I probably would have ditched the pump entirely and looped the lines!
I have an actual (hopefully) performance modification in the works that should be done by later this week. in the meantime.....
Strictly speaking not a part of this build thread, but since it's related to the rally effort, figured I'd show off my new license plate for our recce vehicle that just arrived today :)
Well, bit of a bummer today it was announced STPR is cancelled, since this country can't seem to get its E36 M3 together and stop spreading COVID around. Sorry, not getting into that discussion, but hard not to say it......In any case, I understand how much effort and how many people (as well as local government permits and such) it takes to set up these rallies so I'm not all that surprised and while it's disappointing, it's also totally understandable. Plus, SOFR is running at night with no spectators, no ceremony, no parc expose.....so taking all that away kind of takes part of the fun out of things (and the financial benefit for the local community). STPR would probably have to be similar, but it seems near impossible to deal with specators in the woods and stuff......Anyhow, racing will be around later, so it's not the end of the world.
In the meantime, some other options:
1. try to hit some additional rallycrosses
2. word is that SCCA may have a couple rallysprints in the region later in the year, so will definitely be at those if they happen.
3. spend the money on upgrades to this car......or to my other car projects.....or to new couches my wife wants. So, TBD on that. I just ordered new speakers for the tow rig's audio system, so starting on the spending immediately haha....
4. maybe do some road racing in Jim's e30 if he feels like it. Guess we'll see.
In the end, I don't expect we'll plan on any other stage rallies this calendar year, since the other are either NASA (which I'm not doing for personal reasons - nothing bad, just not) or are too far out of my travel range. So, maybe we'll shoot for Sno-Drift next winter. who knows....
Looks like our first rallycross (next weekend) is already broken the entry cap, and as expected MR is the biggest class and is going to be brutal. Almost eveyone on this list has event wins on their resumes (and those who don't have been close), so maybe moreso than even last year - it's going to be anyone's event to win or lose! Looks like we finally scared all the Miatas away and Shawn is apparently sticking with PR since that's where he runs in national competition, understandably.
Looking at that list, figured it's time to try to do SOMETHING to make this car a bit faster on course, so decided to focus more on grip - though admittedly things I do to this car are primarily focused on stage rally vice rallycross (else this care would be very different than it is). So at SOFR last year I was checking out Shanti Witt's e30. He's pretty damn fast on stage, probably the 2nd-fastest e30 in the East behind Downey, from what I've seen, and was on the 2WD Limited podium (not sure what engine they have). Anyhow, at Ohio they ran a big trunk spoiler:
I chatted with him last week about it and he was pretty adamant that it gave them substantial additional rear downforce and allowed them to take 4's *flat* (which I certainly do not do), which they could not do before, and that both he and his codriver felt the car was substantially faster with the spoiler and a front lip addition. Of course in rally you never know if it's what you did to the car, or if conditions are just really good, or if you just drove really well. But, figured it's worth giving a try.
Unfortunately, with STPR cancelled, it may be a while before I can try it out at stage speeds. But, DC runs pretty fast courses and figured I'd put a similar spoiler together and give it a try there to see if it makes any difference. In any case, the whole setup will weigh less than the heavy Alpina spoiler that's been on the car for the past few years and definitely doesn't have any aero benefit at all.
So, on his advice, hit up Amazon for a 48" piano hinge, which I cut into thirds to match the curve of the trunk and riveted into place.
The hinge will let the angle be adjusted to try out different setups and see what (if anything) works. I also got some super-cheap support rods (same one Shanti uses) that have lousy adjustability but should do for the time being. If this works out well, I'll invest in some nicer ones with better adjustment in the future. So drilled a few new holes in the trunk for that and spaced them out a bit to provide a better brace angle and get them a bit less parallel to the actual panel. I ordered up a 12 x 48" lexan sheet (1/4") but that's not here yet so decided to mock it up in cardboard. The cardboard is not the exact size/shape I'll make it, but is good enough for mocking up.
Anyhow, we'll see how that works out. Worst case it won't do much of anything. Best case it helps settle the rear end on higher-speed transitions - which could be very beneficial depending on what course setup we use at Panthera next weekend.
Speaking of which - looks like it's gonna be in the mid-90s (I mean, it's July...), so I refitted the old "turbo fan" into the car to keep some air moving while sitting in grid or whatever. I put the speed control right down by the shifter so I can click it off right before runs.
Oh, also....got some new speakers for the tow rig. Even though it has a nice aftermarket head unit, it has sounded like crap for some time. The Sequoia had the JBL system in it (with a separate 2-ohm amp and 10 total speakers - 3 in each front door (6.5" subwoofer, 3" mid, and a tweeter). I eliminated the amp with the new deck so it was pushing these speakers with 4-ohm deck, resulting in low volume to go with the bad distortion.
The cause of the distortion was pretty clear once I opened up the doors - the front two were completely disintegrated around the edges. There rears looked a bit better, but figured I'd just replace them all with some decent Rockford Fosgate speakers (these are not expensive, but have a good rep for being really good in the "affordable" price range).
As you can see, the old ones are pretty sketchy...
Installed....I get speakers from Crutchfield since they always send (free) the right adaptors and stuff that makes this stuff much easier. I don't much enjoy doing audio stuff, so I'm fine with off-the-shelf fit solutions.
They sound really good - much better than I expected. And since I'm towing next weekent, it'll be good to have better music clarity.
Is the plan to have to spoiler tilt in like that, or is the shape an artifact of the USPS boxes? I don't have any reason why it shouldn't, but it seems like you're giving up wing area
you mean the angles at the ends? Haven't decided yet. I know it gives up wing area, but also having it squared makes it more likely to get it damaged by branches and stuff on tight stages (we've certainly had branches scrape across the top of the trunk before when I get a bit too wide and sideways). If this was specifically for rallycross, I'd make it even wider and taller than the template - but as with everything on this car, it's kind of a compromise between goals for rallycross and stage (much like my springs are too stiff for rallycross but I'm too lazy to change things out....)
So with no stage rally any time soon, figured I'd bite the bullet and change out the rear springs. For years I ran the stock IX springs in the rear which were about right for rallycross, but swapped to the e36 M3 springs to compensate for the additional weight carried on stage (and the higher speeds). I found the M3 springs to be oversprung for rallycross with the car empty, but e30 rear springs are a big PITA to change with the reinforced perches I have (you may recall I missed knocking out one of my front teeth by about 1/2" last time I did it, when a crowbar slipped). The M3 springs are shorter than the others, so are easy to get in and out. The other ones take pretty good lever force to pop them in. So I left the M3 springs in last year and just ran with 1 (or sometimes 2) spare tires in the trunk to compensate. With no weight back there the rear end got out of sorts too easily.
So, obviously carrying an un-needed 60lbs in the trunk really isn't ideal - especially in a very competitive class where the extra weight could be the difference between winning and finishing 5th. So, busted out all my rear springs...
I have four total sets
On the left are the M3 springs, which have a coil diameter of 16.5mm and a free height of 9". Next over are the IX springs, with a coil diameter of 15.5mm and free height of 9.5". Next are (I think ) regular 325i springs with a coil diameter of 15mm and free height of 9.5" and the last ones are my stock 318i springs, with a coil diameter of 14.5mm and free height of 10".
I did the rate calculations at some point a few years back with the M3 springs (compensating for the lever arm setup of the trailing arm) having an effective wheel rate of something like 220# (actual spring rate was around 330, as I recall). IX springs have a wheel rate of 200# (actual around 300). 325i springs are 175# wheel rate (265 actual), and the 318i springs are something like 150# wheel rate (225 actual).
Anyhow, the IX springs are the way to go for rallycross "without rally stuff" in the car, so I got out my big wood lever, BFH, and pried the M3 ones out and the IX ones in. Static ride height is exactly the same (or a tiny bit lower) since the IX springs are 1/2" taller, but they should settle the rear end down a bit and allow me to take out the heavy stuff that usually lives in the back half of the car for rally (spare, jack, fire extinguisher, first aid kit, etc).
--
Word today is that we may have a change of venue from Panthera to someplace else. Our only other regular venue is Summit Point Motorsports Park, so that's my assumption. But Adam is being kind of secretive about what's going on ("you'll find out tomorrow") so maybe he has some surprise new venue or something. In any case, don't really care either way as long as it's still in the general area. Also could be due to possible summer thunderstorms in the forecase - Panthera is very hilly and if it gets drenched, basically the event has to stop sicne the 2WD cars can hardly get up the hills at all. Summit is very flat so if it rains hard we'll still be slippery and slow, but at least can get around the course. Guess we'll see. I have appropriate tires for whatever venue/conditions so not too concerned. Summit means I can go home to sleep Saturday night (Panthera I have to get a hotel room).
Any thoughts on strakes on the spoiler? I know they are effective enough to be highly regulated in autocross but not much past that. Whatever you end up with, I am curious if the extra grip is noticeable below 40 mph.
ojannen said:Any thoughts on strakes on the spoiler? I know they are effective enough to be highly regulated in autocross but not much past that. Whatever you end up with, I am curious if the extra grip is noticeable below 40 mph.
below 40mph lol....
This car hits 61 at the top of 2nd with the 4.10 diff and 64 with the 3.73 with my typical tire size, and I visit the limiter multiple times on a typical run at most of the events in the mid-atlantic area. Of course, there is some wheelspin so don't know what my actual speed is at the time. But it ain't 40 :)
The spoiler is aimed at stage rally, specifically 5's and 6's which would typically be in the 60-80mph range for fast drivers (so, a bit less for me lol) and where I'm hoping it makes a real difference.
Are you talking about strakes actually ON the spoiler, or vortex generators on the trailing edge of the roof? Either way, I'd say it's unlikely I'd bother. I think most of the spoiler effectiveness at autocross speeds is for cars with much more aerodynamic shapes. My Porsche 924's 944 Turbo spoiler makes NOTICEABLE downforce at highway speeds, even though it's pretty low (because it has smooth airflow off the hatchback). With the e30 being such a brick, I have my doubts that much clean air will actually hit this thing at anything other than very high speeds. But again, this is more of a 'well, let's see...." type of thing
In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
Huh, so I am actually softer sprung than you with the 175lb I run in the back. Not sure what your sprung weight is vs. mine, a good chunk of my total rear weight is the rearend. Maybe 1050lb for me? (~1300ish minus 190 for the rearend, and then the tires/wheels)
Tirespin is nuts. On a grippy course I have run 2nd gear out to the limiter and only seen about 45 on the Garmin. With the rally tires that is 65mph tire speed. And this is with my current wussburger engine that is probably a good 30-40hp down on yours.
i have seen close to 60 on a closed course gravel road, and I was well into 3rd gear to do it. And backing off, because the second time I got air while sideways over a mid-corner crest, I realized it is really dumb to do that without a roll cage. Felt totally awesome before reality set in.
I would expect an e30 with a cage is substantially heavier at the rear (and front) than a 1st gen RX7 lol....
Your "grippy" courses are basically our "loose" courses though (Frostburg excepted). Summit and Panthera have a lot of grip except in areas that get the moon dust. In the fast sections, good chance we are near "indicated" speed in actuali
It's a porker 
1200lb front 1350 rear with a quarter tank, I try to run with more fuel than that nowadays to stave off vapor lock to the lift pump. Certainly a whole lot heavier than the Miata brigade.
The last event I was at was super grippy, thus the high speeds. We have a small site so it's all corners and hills. But then if you are cornering at high speed your rear tires are spinning, else you aren't generating any grip...
Either way, having data is awesome Maybe I'll upload gravel road video if you agree to keep it private.
Allright.....well my Lexan sheet arrived, so let's get cutting!
Then a bit of edge sanding, and a bit of drilling, and we have a spoiler that isn't made of cardboard.
Looks taller in the photos than it is (10" high). Chris Helgesen was a bit concerned that I didn't have enough angle on the support stays but it seems very sturdy. I actually grabbed the top edge and then leaned backwards with my own weight and it didn't break or anything, so that seems like it should be sufficient support :)
On an unrelated note: My wife's 2013 Mazda CX-9 has overall been a very good vehicle (other than it's ridiculously limited storage/cubholder situation for the front-seat passengers since they took up half the space between the seats with the stupid automatic shifter - put that E36 M3 on the column and give me more places to put my stuff!)
Except, the top of the steering wheel when we bought it at 50k miles was kind of "rough" and over the next few years (20k miles) the entire grip cover basically disintegrated. This has never happened to any other car I've ever had - even ones much, much older. So IDK what the issue was there...
Anyhow, managed to get one off ebay for pretty cheap and installed it today, so good as new. Still annoying, though...
So looks like we're not actually capping entries (so, good for the program, bad for more runs.....) so now MR is up to 15 cars with the addition of a Miata. We're also changing venues to Summit Point for some unspecified reason, which is more convenient to me (close enough to go home at night to sleep between the two days). Summit is hit or miss for me depending on the course and conditions, where I think I'm a bit faster at Panthera relative to some others in the class (the extra power probably helps with that against the M20 and M42 cars and Miata/MR2s that can't climb as fast, perhaps).
With weather on Saturday looking hit or miss, we may be on hardpacked baked clay, may be on fluffy moon dust, or may be on icy-slick clay if it rains. So guess I'm hauling all the different tires with me (by "all" I mean a set a gravels, the Maxsports, and my pair of Yoko mud rally tires which I've never used).
Also got a chuckle looking at the entry list. Those who have followed this thread from the beginning may remember that way back in the M10 (and early M42) days the MR champion was Roberto Moreton, who had an RX7 done up nicely with rally suspension, and always with good tires. (The other years, Shawn was champion in his own RX7). Roberto stopped rallycrossing when he had a kid, but looks like he's back in a former stage rally car, sadly with the wrong drive wheels lol..
In any case, I swapped on the wheels with the Maxsports on them, since that's most likely to be the fast tire, at least Saturday morning, regardless of the conditions. You may note that the driver's side fo the car is sitting a bit higher than the other side, and that's intentional. Usually it would be even, but for rallycross I use an extra spacer pad in the rear and turn the coilover perch up front a bit higher so once my weight is in the car it sits evenly - since I don't plan to take any riders at this event (and we're not allowed to due to COVID precautions).. So, that may or may not make and difference, but whatever.
In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
On a wing, they would be called end plates. On a diffuser, they are called strakes. Not exactly sure what vertical front-to-back vanes are called on a spoiler. The idea is to push more air over the spoiler instead of letting it slip off the side. Theoretically, there is a little more force pushing the car straight even if it isn't all down force.
On my car, the GPS says I top out around 50mph in 2nd gear. I am not sure what my wheel speed is. I am curious if you notice the spoiler at rallycross speeds.
Ah ok....yes, I actually did consider that, but couldn't think of a good way to attach them to the lexan without adding a bunch of angle aluminum or something - plus they'd have to be a set angle and I want to be able to adjust this as needed. Didn't figure it was necessarily worth the weight penalty (and complexity), but who knows...
I did a quick drive up to about 60mph outside my neighborhood today. On a smooth road that's pretty straight it's nearly impossible to tell a difference, and noplace to take any fast corners during rush hour around here, really. That said, in the rearview I could see the spoiler flexing a bit, so it was definitely getting some airflow.
All loaded up and ready to rallycross all weekend. DC has something like 75 entires for the weekend, which is one of our biggest turnouts ever. More interestingly, there are double-digit entries in almost half the classes (with the others mostly having 6-9 enires), which really bodes well for the program. We've always been heavy in the MR and AWD classes, but we have something like 20 FWD cars entered (10 in MF) this weekend plus a big SR field, so that's pretty cool to see that we're still growing the program even though we're already one of the biggest.
On the downside, of course, that means less runs. But hopefully with the long daylight hours and things running smoothly we'll get a lot of cars on course. If we run Summit Point Barn Course, it holds up well, almost never ruts, and so few delays for course changes.
On a related note, one of our new rallycrossers posted this on the local facebook page today. Makes me pretty happy, because the main reason I've carried on with this endless thread (aside from reminding myself of things) is the hope that it gets more people into rallycrossing, whether in old BMWs or anything else. So, that's cool . Hope you don't mind me posting this up here.
In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
That's cool! Nice job spreading the rally love!
Finally back to some action. This weekend we had (finally) the first DC rallycross, making up some earlier missed events with a doubleheader (two individual events). Turnout was huge – 75 entires, which may be the most our program has ever had, and a monster entry in MR class as usual, with 16 or 17 drivers signed up. The usual bunch of BMWs, a Miata or two, a couple MR2s, and a couple BR-Zs, including Chris Nonack doing some testing in his BR-Z (er...FR-S) before he cages it for stage rally.
First a socially-distanced driver's meeting..
Then off to grid..
We were back at Summit Point this time and the weather broke dry and fairly hot. Saturday we ran the smaller course (which has no “name” yet), which is really a handling course. I used to love it with the M42 in this car because the more powerful cars couldn't use their power on it. Now I have a powerful car, so no more advantage lol.
As expected, the top 10 or so in the class came out of the box on full “go,” and throughout the day the top half of the class swapped positions repeatedly for the most part. Most of us were out there on Maxsports with others on gravels. Josh Sennett had two studs break/back out while setting up, and since he couldn't use his spacers with the shorter replacements, he had to run on his street tires, which really hurt him in the morning. He went out at lunch to try to find some others and couldn't get back fo rthe PM due to part of summit point being locked down because some gunfire had (hit?) a Porsche on the main circuit at the big PCA track day. IDK if it was hunters or what, didn't hear what they found out.
In any case, we battled it out, but nobody could catch Stephen Nichols, who held on for the win on Saturday, with me taking 2nd. About 5 other e30s followed up, and Nick didn't have a good day in the M3, actually hitting several cones right off the bat (He hit one cone last SEASON and I think none the season before). It was a tight and slippery course for his “big” M3.
Other GRM builds were there....like, about 5 or 6 of them.....
Also fun seeing my old “backup shell” rebuilt into Eric and Neil's new rallycross car (still hasn't had its paint job done, so still has remnants of my old door stripes and stuff). It was less fun when they were both beating me midway through the day, but I managed to pass both of them eventually.
Incidentally, Shawn (the hundred-time MR/PR champion) in his PR Miata running at the same time as MR......beat our entire class by 6 second. Doh. Happy he stayed in PR for the season haha...
Sunday we moved to the huge Barn Course, which is generally high-speed, hard-pack, and favors the powerful cars.
We worked first. It was hot
Pretty much everyond stayed with their setup from the day before (Maxsports), but with the sun baking the clay, I thought my Federal rally gravels might be better, so I swapped them on. During the recce run I felt like things were not that grippy, though. So my first run I was extremely tentative, which is odd since I usually go out of the gate full-blast to try to get a lead. But after the first run.....yikes.....I was slow. 8th place slow. Behind every other BMW in the class, ugh. No time to change tires, so in an effort to get more grip I basically just dumped air. Usually I run the gravels in the mid-20s psi, but I dumped the rears down to 17-18 and the fronts to 22, which is pretty borderline. It gave immediate results (with some improved lines from me) and I got some time back on the 2nd and 3rd runs. On the fourth and final run of the morning I put down the fastest time in the class and jumped into 3rd place, with Nonack (who had been leading the class) getting a couple cones and dropping to 4th – leaving Stephen in the lead....again.
Off to lunch we went. Someone mentioned possible rain in the PM so after lunch I hauled my Maxsports out to grid to do a quick change if needed, and our group went out to work the course. As luck would have it, 2 runs in to the other run group, the skies opened up and the temps plummeted form mid-80s to mid-60 and we all got soaked to the bone, and the wind was cold. Not fun.
Event was put on hold to see how fast it would blow over and we trudged back to the paddock area. After about 20 minutes (with three Stock FWD cars stuck at the now-flooded start area), one of the Mod AWD subies did a course test and was all over the place – so it was decided to call the event. Which kind of sucks, since I'm pretty good in mud and had brand-new Maxsports sitting there, but it is what it is. So I finished 3rd, Stephen 1st, and Neil (in my old shell took 2nd).
After the course was picked up, we got do to some “fun runs” in the mud and giant puddles. About a dozen cars stuck around, only two of us RWD – me and Thomas Helgesen's Volvo. Needless to say, we had a good time:
After I took a couple, I let Brian Battocchi (fellow stage rally driver and the day's MA class winner) take a run in my car since he'd never driven an e30 before, and I ran out to take photos....he seemed to enjoy it
Adam Kimmet in Mike Julian's car chased him down on course and did a bit of tandem drift action before passing him lol...
Packed up and headed home, really muddy, overlooking the track where the Porsches were probably not muddy, lol.
So....as expected, the class is fast AF this year once again, but even deeper in fast cars/drivers. Which is awesome, but is going to be tough to win events. Stephen is already driving great this year.....Nick having a hard time so far, but that won't last. And another half-dozen guys who can win any time.
Takeaways: switching back to the IX rear springs from the e36 M3 springs was probably a good idea. Car felt balanced with nothing in the trunk (but one spare tire in the back seat on the passenger side), so I'm happy with that choice.
The big trunk spoiler, not sure. I mean, I was pretty fast today but hard to say if I was getting any real downforce back there. However, several people said the spoiler was putting up a pretty big “dust vortex” when I was on course, so it's definitely getting some air to it at least. Obviously it's mostly intended to be used in stage rally, whenever we get to do one again.
Speaking of which, there were quite a few stage cars there this weekend besides mine and Brian's Impreza (both regulars). Roberto Moreton (who you may remember from about 7-8 years ago in this thread as the RX-7 driver who beat me my first couple seasons) returned, but with an old SCCA Pro Rally VW Golf, and promptly won a large MF class on Saturday. Anthony Burden, from up in New England (I think) showed up in his old Turbo Jetta (which is an ARA/current rally car) and won MF on Sunday with the more open course. Our buddies Alan Edwards and Baker (who you've seen many times in my recaps at WMWR and STPR, also showed up to test out their new motor in their stage rally Neon. And some old B13 Sentra with CARS markings (Canadian Rally Series) was there too, but not sure what the story with it is (its skidplate fell off on course, so it may need some love lol).
All in all, happy with the car's performance other than the coolant temp a bit higher than I like (it was a hot day, with long runs) and I think if I had the PM session today I might have been able to reel Stevie in. Oh well.
Today I got out the powerwasher......and remembered how sticky Summit's red clay is....
Nice pics
my track night here getting cancelled as 2nd shutdown coming
"gunfire hit a Porsche," was said way too casually by you
As far as I know, it was a ricochet from a nearby property where we had been hearing targets go plink all morning- definitely added an extra element of danger to standing in a field with no cover!
mr2s2000elise said:Nice pics
my track night here getting cancelled as 2nd shutdown coming
"gunfire hit a Porsche," was said way too casually by you
like I'm supposed to feel bad for a bunch of guys who can afford to take $100k cars to the track.... ;)
Rally/rallycross drivers are oddly used to hearing gunfire, since we're usually running either in rural areas (hunters) or, oddly, at tactical training areas (Summit, Panthera). I didn't even think anything of the gunfire we were hearing, frankly. There is (or was) a State Department training facility right next to where we run, so figured it was from there.
Cayman tagged with a ricochet:
Oh, this was the issue getting back:
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