johnathan144
johnathan144 None
3/28/13 9:03 p.m.

Hello there I am trying to get ideas for my build. I have a 1988 Mazda 323 4dr 5 speed and I am having a hard time finding parts for it. I want to swap the engine out of it, it has a 1.6L SOHC 4cyl. I want a DOHC 4cyl but I am having difficulty finding an engine that would be best suited for this car. I want to do join an autocross or a track day event someday. If anyone has advice I would appreciate it.

jgrewe
jgrewe New Reader
3/28/13 10:23 p.m.

I don't know what bolts to your trans but my '88 323 GTX has what is basically a 1.6 Miata engine. You should be able to bolt in a complete Capri driveline too, its all Mazda stuff under the hood. Not the Mustang type Capri, the Aussie 2 seat convertible one.

fanfoy
fanfoy Reader
3/29/13 8:40 a.m.

Like it's been said, any BP should fit in there with a bit of fiddling. Pretty much any FWD engine can fit in there, from a KL, to a F2T or a BP. Look at this build thread for inspiration.

RossD
RossD UberDork
3/29/13 9:11 a.m.

Where's Swank to tell you about the F2t? I'd like to see a F2t in 323...

mndsm
mndsm PowerDork
3/29/13 9:15 a.m.

He's probably sleeping. But yeah, an F2T would be interesting, though I don't know exactly what mating surfaces you'd need to make it work.... not to mention I can almost guarantee that the trans in that car isn't meant to take F2T power. I'll let Ben clean up the details.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
3/29/13 9:45 a.m.

You couldn't pay me to attempt an F2T swap on that car. I'm fairly certain it just won't fit.

You're looking at a B6 DOHC (1.6) or a BP (1.8) swap, realistically. Both have been done many times and are well-documented on ClubProtege.

If you want turbo, there were turbo variants of both motors. Or roll your own. (Suggested.)

Any of these swaps will be cake, especially if you go Megasquirt at the same time. (Suggested.)

What sort of racing are you looking to do? Rules set will also dictate what you can and can't do.

mndsm
mndsm PowerDork
3/29/13 9:58 a.m.
Swank Force One wrote: You couldn't pay me to attempt an F2T swap on that car. I'm fairly certain it just won't fit.

The best part is, You're TOTALLY thinking about it now.

crazycanadian
crazycanadian Reader
3/29/13 10:16 a.m.

You guys are all over looking the fact that this is a BF not a BG 323... BP, swaps aren't that common to do in a BF.. Its not quite the same as doing one in a BG.. a BP doesn't quite bolt in like if would when doing the swap in a BG... You have to play little more with mounts and axles to make it work.. wiring is more work..

Its not impossible but its not as easy...

The easiest swap to do in a BF is a B6T swap... You want to get the B6T from either a mercury capri (I think its the xr2 model) or else you get it out of an 88 - 89 4 door 323 GT.... The GTX 4wd B6T works, but the oil pan it a little different and there is an issue with a couple bolts when mounting it to the 2wd transmission...

Anyone upgrading to the B6T also looks for the G series transmission that goes with it.. The little F series transmission that goes with the SOHC B6 is pretty weak...

If you get a motor/transmission/shifter/engine bay wiring harness/computer/mounts and some other random stuff I am forgetting, from the 4 door 323 GT its a plug and play swap...

The capri's have a few little things are different that you would need to figure out but it still works..

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
3/29/13 10:19 a.m.
crazycanadian wrote: You guys are all over looking the fact that this is a BF not a BG 323... BP, swaps aren't that common to do in a BF.. Its not quite the same as doing one in a BG.. a BP doesn't quite bolt in like if would when doing the swap in a BG... You have to play little more with mounts and axles to make it work.. wiring is more work.. Its not impossible but its not as easy... The easiest swap to do in a BF is a B6T swap... You want to get the B6T from either a mercury capri (I think its the xr2 model) or else you get it out of an 88 - 89 4 door 323 GT.... The GTX 4wd B6T works, but the oil pan it a little different and there is an issue with a couple bolts when mounting it to the 2wd transmission... Anyone upgrading to the B6T also looks for the G series transmission that goes with it.. The little F series transmission that goes with the SOHC B6 is pretty weak... If you get a motor/transmission/shifter/engine bay wiring harness/computer/mounts and some other random stuff I am forgetting, from the 4 door 323 GT its a plug and play swap... The capri's have a few little things are different that you would need to figure out but it still works..

BP powered BFs aren't common? Geniunely asking... thought i've seen a few on CP over the years.

Then there's the KL-swapped one... but that swap looks like a whore and a half.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
3/29/13 10:22 a.m.
mndsm wrote:
Swank Force One wrote: You couldn't pay me to attempt an F2T swap on that car. I'm fairly certain it just won't fit.

The best part is, You're TOTALLY thinking about it now.

To be real honest with you, i'm not. Not only would the swap suck horribly to do, but you'd end up with something borderline undriveable (which sounds fun), but would also have a chance of just tearing the car apart.

High power F2Ts break down GD MX6s at a highly accelerated rate compared to stock F2Ts in the first place, let alone the BF chassis, which is pretty much a 2/3rds scale MX6 with arguably lesser build quality.

You'll see what i mean when you come out here to pick up your car. Your car feels fresh and tight. My car will absolutely stomp it in any sort of performance test, and MIGHT look better... but it sure doesn't feel as good. Why? Because F2T is destroying it. It's not a mechanical thing... they just wear out and beat up the cars they're in.

johnathan144
johnathan144 New Reader
3/29/13 2:36 p.m.

I want to do an Atlanta autocross for SCCA one day or one of their track days.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
3/29/13 2:48 p.m.

Honestly in that case, i'd probably start with suspension, wheels, tires, brakes, etc... first.

Then maybe a 1.6 DOHC swap.

Then maybe turbo it when you get bored.

I wouldn't get too crazy right off the bat because you'll get classed into something you can't compete in and that ruins part of the run if you're like me.

crazycanadian
crazycanadian Reader
3/30/13 2:14 a.m.
johnathan144 wrote: I want to do an Atlanta autocross for SCCA one day or one of their track days.

What class do you want to run and what kind of budget do you have??

With any motor swap you are looking at ending up in high dollar, high commitment level classes...

the BF chassis isn't supported well enough suspension/brake wise to really handle ending up in SMF or one of the mod classes...

You will be fighting a very hard up hill battle to be try and be competitive with a BF..

If you want to do if for fun, go for it.. They can be fun cars to drive... I used to run a BF in ST, and then in SMF.. After that I had a BF GTX that I ran in SM...

A proper B6T swap is going to be your easiest motor swap.. I did one in my old BF.. if you have all the right parts its possible to have the swap done in a day or 2.. It really is that much of a bolt in easy swap... Suspension wise its hard to find stuff, but the 2wd GT 323s have bigger brakes, rear disc brakes and larger sway bars for the factory.. it all bolts right in..

Look up a Galant front brake swap, other wise get on club protege and look up some of my suspension information.. I had done a really good comparison between BF 2wd, 4wd and BG 2wd stuff... A worth while upgrade for a BF is swapping over to BG stuff, this opens up what you'll have available...

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
3/30/13 8:22 a.m.

Aren't there ways to get BG suspension stuff on a BF?

I'm looking at a BF as a possible replacement for my twisted and rusty Escort chassis when the time comes.

johnathan144
johnathan144 New Reader
3/30/13 9:13 a.m.

I have a low budget at the moment but I am up for anything. I am having trouble finding a B6T motor. I found a BPT motor but they all come with awd transmissions. I need a 2wd trans.

johnathan144
johnathan144 New Reader
3/30/13 11:00 a.m.

If I can't find a BPT and wiring harness without the AWD transmission so what about a KLZE swap. Would that be hard to do and is there a forum I can go to for more information.

crazycanadian
crazycanadian Reader
3/30/13 11:22 a.m.
Swank Force One wrote: Aren't there ways to get BG suspension stuff on a BF? I'm looking at a BF as a possible replacement for my twisted and rusty Escort chassis when the time comes.

Its not a direct bolt in... You can run BG spindles, and coil overs but you need the upper plates from a BF in the front... I am not to sure if you can interchange BF/BG front control arms though... It might be possible..

In the rear you need to convert all the trailing arms and stuff over to BG, then use BG spindles and coil overs, but once again you need to run upper mounts for a BF...I haven't compared the BG rear suspension links to a BF so I am not sure if it'll be a simple swap or if there is some fab work involved.. From what I have looked at in the junk yards back when I had a BF, it looked like a simple swap.. All though I have seen someone say it wasn't.. 2wd and 4wd BF struts mounts are completely different and do not interchange..

johnathan144 said:

I have a low budget at the moment but I am up for anything. I am having trouble finding a B6T motor. I found a BPT motor but they all come with awd transmissions. I need a 2wd trans.

B6T's are getting hard to come buy...

I have owned and played with an 89 2wd BF, an 88 4wd BF GTX and now I have a 92 2wd BG car... My best advice after modifying all of them is this... If budget is tight, buy your self a complete running donor car..

If you want to go with a BP swap, get a complete car with a BP and 5 speed in it... This way you'll have all the little parts to try and mix and match things to get it to work and you'll save money..

If you want to go with a B6T, find your self a complete running 323 GT turbo car... You could also go with the mercury (xr2 I think it is) that comes with a B6T.. The mercury wont be as straight forward when it comes to wiring though... have a 323 GT turbo car as a donor makes the B6T swap a plug and play set up..

johnathan144
johnathan144 New Reader
11/30/13 11:52 a.m.

Thanks for the help

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