The Alfa moved under its own power today! Not far, mind you, I was just shuffling it around the driveway. It's still not running 100%. The 1233 CEL persists and the engine sounds rather rough at idle. When cold, the idle dips quite a bit when putting the car into gear.
The ATF and coolant have been topped off. I still think I'm leaking something, though not coolant. I parked the front of the car over a small patch of slush. I will move it again tomorrow and have a look-see.
I also have to get the small end of the upper dog-bone engine mount aligned properly so I can put the bolt in.
Have you rechecked ALL of your grounds? Maybe even add a few with 0 gauge wire.
Ok, it's actually been running for a couple of days now, and I still don't have the idle fixed, but for the first time in months I drove the Alfa around town! A few things I noticed from today's shakedown cruise:
-There is a coolant leak when the engine is hot. This is priority 1 as it's a fairly big leak. It's coming from vicinity of the passenger side of the engine, but beyond that I can't tell. It's probably just something that needs to be tightened down, but I have to get the Alfa on ramps to see where the leak might be coming from, as I can't tell from above or with the car on the ground.
-The idle still isn't fixed and I'm still getting a CEL for the IAC valve (although it is brand new). There's an extensive checklist I've been following on AlfaBB (and yes, I did check the grounds, they are all in place). The engine runs nice otherwise, though it still needs to reseat the #5 piston rings. The rough sound turned out to be a loose exhaust header heat shield.
-The exhaust is knocking about when I hit any bumps. It needs new hangers. The downpipe from the front exhaust manifold is also leaking. Since it has been patched up multiple times already I'm going to have an exhaust shop fix it instead. The downpipe is double-walled, which will make it more of a challenge.
There are a few other little things I need to get to, but the above + an alignment are the biggies. The fact that I could drive the Alfa at all, for the first time in months, gives me a happy!
So is the 1223 code gone? I recall having that code, and also having lots of problems with the air flow meter. The one Alfa bought from Bosch does not appear to be all that robust- my wife complained of the car stalling every once in a while. Maybe someone tried to 'fix' it, which has thrown everything out of wack far enough to cause an idle problem.
It never had a 1223 code. It has a 1233 code (IAC valve - closing winding). The most likely culprits I've seen from reading are a bad IACV, a bad TPS, corroded ECU pins, or a vacuum leak.
My wifes Mazda 6 had something similar. It ended up being the 02 sensor. Can you unplug the O2 sensor and see if it goes away?
Rob R.
RexSeven wrote:
It never had a 1223 code. It has a 1233 code (IAC valve - closing winding). The most likely culprits I've seen from reading are a bad IACV, a bad TPS, corroded ECU pins, or a vacuum leak.
my wife keeps telling me I have ydlexia..... I mess numbers up like that pretty often- or I was reading the number I wanted to read...
No steps forward, two steps back.
Yesterday I installed new rubber exhaust hangers on the muffler and silencer to try and stop the muffler from banging up against the body over large bumps. The muffler hangers don't quite work, as the muffler still bangs against the heat shield over big bumps. I used Autozone ring hangers like this on the rear, which is probably my problem.
I used more robust hangers on the silencer, so I just bought another pair of those. They look sort of like this, but the outer edge is round instead of square.
More importantly, I still can't find a smoking gun for the coolant leak. The coolant appears to be leaking from the front of the engine (passenger's side of the car) as the bottom of the passenger's side subframe was dripping pretty good. The subframe under the radiator was bone-dry, however. I took off the serpentine belt and engine covers, and I could see a couple drips on the front of the water pump, but I still don't know exactly where the leaking is coming from. All the bolts are torqued down correctly, except one on the bottom of the water pump which appears to be stripped. It is not leaking from there but I may need to Helicoil that one. The bolts holding the thermostat in place are secure. I will check the hoses going to the cylinder heads later this week. It got too cold out too quickly for me to continue.
Does the water pump have a weep hole near the impeller shaft? I know alot of waterpumps have a little hole behind the bearing. This hole will leak when the bearing or seal is going bad. Sometimes it can be a pain to track down because the water pump pulley is in the way OR it flings teh coolant everywhere.
I woud get that hole helicoiled and check to see fi there is a weep hole.
Rob R.
There hasn't been much work on the Alfa recently because I wanted to work on the Mustang now that the snow has passed. I tried installing new headers on the Mustang before I was stalled by my old nemesis, frozen nuts (both mechanical and biological). I was also very sick last week. That's about to change this weekend.
Last Friday, the second of my family's cars in as many months had a catastrophic engine problem - my other sister's 2006 Aerio AWD started spewing steam and the shop she took it to says the engine is hosed. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did, because it's been beat up and neglected from day one. Now I have to thrash the Alfa Romeo back together so she can borrow it, because she is too young to rent and no one else has a car they can lend her.
I need to fix the coolant leak and exhaust leak (I'll get to the bad cold idle if I get a chance), but tracking down the coolant leak has been a massive PITA because it's on the front of the engine. The serpentine belt and timing belt cover had to be removed to get access to the approximate area of the leak. I rented a coolant pump from AutoZone that looks like Austin Power's Swedish, errmm, "mojo" pump, but obviously it doesn't attach to the coolant bottle. I hope some tape will hold enough air to pressurize the system so I can find the leak.
In reply to wvumtnbkr: I hope it's not the coolant pump, it's brand frickin' new.
NOHOME
SuperDork
3/27/14 6:30 a.m.
RexSeven wrote:
I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did, because it's been beat up and neglected from day one. Now I have to thrash the Alfa Romeo back together so she can borrow it, because she is too young to rent and no one else has a car they can lend her.
This makes no sense?! You are about to give the automotive equivalent of lead glass crystal so someone who could not keep a coffee mug intact.
After all you have suffered to get this far?
In reply to RexSeven:
You definitely need to check that water pump. Sadly new doesn't mean much these days.
Also, how trustworthy is the shop that condemned the engine in your sister's Suzuki? A couple of years ago a local shop condemned the engine in one of my relatives civic. It had lowish compression in 2 cyls and barfed all its coolant a couple times. A new HG and set of head bolts later, and it still runs like new to this day. FWIW, some of the head bolts seemed like they were barely hand tight, and not a single drop of coolant made it into the oil.
Basically I'm saying it can't hurt to pull the head to see what you can see.
NOHOME wrote:
RexSeven wrote:
I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did, because it's been beat up and neglected from day one. Now I have to thrash the Alfa Romeo back together so she can borrow it, because she is too young to rent and no one else has a car they can lend her.
This makes no sense?! You are about to give the automotive equivalent of lead glass crystal so someone who could not keep a coffee mug intact.
After all you have suffered to get this far?
This, don't hand over the car. Even if it survives mechanically how many dents, tears etc. will it get in her custody. I love that you are rehabilitating a supermodel with anorexia and a crack problem, don't go and her to a two bit pimp!
HappyAndy wrote:
In reply to RexSeven:
You definitely need to check that water pump. Sadly new doesn't mean much these days.
Also, how trustworthy is the shop that condemned the engine in your sister's Suzuki? A couple of years ago a local shop condemned the engine in one of my relatives civic. It had lowish compression in 2 cyls and barfed all its coolant a couple times. A new HG and set of head bolts later, and it still runs like new to this day. FWIW, some of the head bolts seemed like they were barely hand tight, and not a single drop of coolant made it into the oil.
Basically I'm saying it can't hurt to pull the head to see what you can see.
This. The best car deal I ever managed was a 92 Civic that was overheated by a a guy I worked with. Bought the car for $200, swapped out the HG and was done. I was short on cash at the time and did not even get the head checked. Put everything back together, drove the car for a year and then sold it for $800.
Adrian_Thompson wrote:
NOHOME wrote:
RexSeven wrote:
I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did, because it's been beat up and neglected from day one. Now I have to thrash the Alfa Romeo back together so she can borrow it, because she is too young to rent and no one else has a car they can lend her.
This makes no sense?! You are about to give the automotive equivalent of lead glass crystal so someone who could not keep a coffee mug intact.
After all you have suffered to get this far?
This, don't hand over the car. Even if it survives mechanically how many dents, tears etc. will it get in her custody. I love that you are rehabilitating a supermodel with anorexia and a crack problem, don't go and her to a two bit pimp!
+1, its your money to waste, but that makes no sense at all. Unless you plan to just scrap the Alfa when she is done with it, I bet you could find a cheap beater Japanese car for less than fixing the Alfa again will cost.
FINALLY! I found the source of the leak and fixed it!
See the gasket in between the water pump and housing in this picture? It was not there before.
Methinks it got missed during the engine rebuild (d'oh!).
When I put the coolant tester on and pumped it up, it no longer leaked! Tomorrow the timing covers and serpentine belt go back on and the front downpipe comes off so I can have an exhaust shop patch up an exhaust leak.
I was also able to install new hood lift struts and better fitting rubber exhaust hangers for the muffler.
So much for getting the Alfa ready today. While I was reassembling it to make sure it wasn't leaking anymore, the serpentine belt tensioner piston broke.
Keep up the good fight, though I feel your pain. After having sold my past its prime GTV6, I am really wanting another one.
Apparently, I screwed up again. There is a rig pin that is supposed to be installed in the serpentine belt tensioner assembly to keep that piston from overextending when the belt is off. Guess what I forgot to put in?
I'm also staring down another timing belt replacement. Although the timing belt on this car is brand berkeleying new, the coolant leak spilled quite a bit of antifreeze onto it. I can probably hold off for a couple of months, but I don't want to push it the whole 30,000 miles either. Those 24 valves ain't cheap.
Got a hold of (some) of the tools needed to change the timing belt. My Alfista friend in NH is currently in Qatar right now (he's a civilian contractor with the USAF), so I had to make a 5 hour round trip to borrow these from another AlfaBB member (thanks RexCars!). These tools are available from a supplier in the UK called TotallyAlfa but shipping time is a bit of a problem for me since I'd like to do this sooner rather than later. These tools are specific to the Alfa 164 24V only. All newer versions of the Alfa 24V V-6 (156, 166, etc). have a totally different tensioning system and belts.
Counter-clockwise from the top:
-Cam fixing blocks (to hold camshafts in place)
-Belt tensioning tool with weight and serpentine pulley adapter (tension is set by moving the weight to a particular position while the adapter is in the pulley)
-Copy of the TSB with the latest belt replacement procedures
-Timing belt pulley adapter for the tensioning tool
-Cam sprocket wrench (in case I need to remove and retorque them)
I also need a TDC gauge. Alfa uses a dial indicator attached to a holder that screws into the spark plug hole on the #1 cylinder. That's going to be a PITA to get a hold of.
I finally, FINALLY got that stupid timing belt tensioned correctly. The problem was with the hydraulic timing belt tensioner. Normally it's supposed to extend about 1/8" when the timing belt is tensioned properly. The old tensioner, however, kept depressing. Luckily, I had bought a spare tensioner and after playing swapsies a couple of times with the tensioners, I was able to confirm the old one was on its last legs.
(This is not my car, but the tensioning system is the same. The hydraulic tensioner is the rust-colored cylindrical thing underneath the big bearing)
I consider myself lucky to have had that spare on hand. Besides saving me some time, I also saved some money on it. For a while the 24V 164 tensioner was made of unobtainium and had a price to match. Then a fellow on AlfaBB discovered they were still being made... for the Ferrari 360 Modena! The prices on the NOS Alfa parts have come down accordingly but I still saved some money getting it from, of all places, Yahoo! Auctions Japan.
I also was able to get the bolt into the upper dogbone engine mount. That had been vexing me for a long while.
Tomorrow I get the intake bits, timing belt covers, and serpentine belt on, and try it again.
I was just about to start the car today when I realized the battery was dead. D'oh! I won't know if I did this right until at least tomorrow while my Battery Tender recharges the giant 70lb 31-series battery the 164 uses.
Methinks it got missed during the engine rebuild (d'oh!).
When I put the coolant tester on and pumped it up, it no longer leaked! Tomorrow the timing covers and serpentine belt go back on and the front downpipe comes off so I can have an exhaust shop patch up an exhaust leak.
I was also able to install new hood lift struts and better fitting rubber exhaust hangers for the muffler.
