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captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/25/18 12:28 p.m.

So I've been wanting to build a challenge car for a few years now. I never really found the deal I felt would be worthy of building. Last week a 320is with some body damage and floor pan rust was listed for $1200 about an hour away. Initially I thought I'd just part it out since the rear 3.91 lsd and the 5 speed alone were worth almost double asking price. After driving it home though, I've decided it's worth saving. I tried to talk him down to $800, but was only able to get it bumped down to $1000. The trans alone is worth about $750-800 to e21 and e10 enthusiasts, so I'm fairly certain I can manage to recoup most of my initial purchase price.

I'll throw up a couple overall pics of the car now, and update some detail pics later:

 

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

 

Okay, here's where I need some fair market value on parts. I have a bunch of stuff laying around that I pulled off my 91 318is that was left in a field for over a decade and some parts left over from a 320is I parted out over a year ago.

 

1. e30 14" basketweaves, not in amazing condition, and I'm pretty sure I only have two centercaps. I don't plan to run the centercaps anyway, but maybe that would effect market value some? I figure a range of $50-75 would be fair as no one really seems to consider these valuable or desirable in any sense as most e30 owners switch to 15" wheels. That may even be too high of an estimate?  See pics:

 

19820387-F0F5-4151-9C1D-F681B6EA624B by hatchethairy, on Flickr

8787537C-9338-449B-94BB-A9D374B69374 by hatchethairy, on Flickr

 

2. full m42/5speed and driveshaft from my field rat 91 318is including radiator, cheap Chinese 14" e-fan, harness, and ecu. It's rough, really rough. All rubber parts are trash, and it has over 200k miles from what the odometer said before the gears broke. I'd be hard pressed to pay $50, see pics of what it looked like before pulling:

 

1AF4AC5B-FA41-401C-8F60-C8227631CA54 by hatchethairy, on Flickr

85BF72F9-098B-4708-AFD2-428E023840E8 by hatchethairy, on Flickr

DF46BCD5-14E4-4791-9F7B-D4F7070B17F5 by hatchethairy, on Flickr

56104432-E447-48B9-B89F-FDC0F007A920 by hatchethairy, on Flickr

CFDA6FBF-6DCB-4444-9D5A-0F10F269DDB2 by hatchethairy, on Flickr

50EE67B5-9CE1-422A-89CD-026AF26A44EA by hatchethairy, on Flickr

 

3. The rear wheel bearing is toast on my driver side trailing arm. I just so happen to have a set of trailing arms, subframe, and cv axles from a previous 320is part out. Brake shoes and wheel cylinder are shot on the one arm I'd use, but the bearing feels good from what I can tell. The 323i trailing arms are the only ones people typically will pay for, so again I don't imagine it's value is too high. I paid $300 for the whole car the parts came from(hopefully I can find the sales ticket). I had them remove the transmission, diff, everything attached to the rear subframe, a pair of black vinyl Recaro seats, and a sport steering wheel. The rest of the car was crushed, really wish I would have kept it for other parts, but oh well. Anyway, I sold the diff and trans for $1087.85 after removing shipping and paypal fees, the steering wheel sold for $105 without subtracting shipping cost, and I kept the seats/subframe/etc. for myself. So what should I value just the diver side trailing arm?

 

4. In October 2016 I bought 6 BMW coils from an ebay auction for $45 shipped to me. Originally they were listed at $10 per coil, but I offered $7.50 each. He accepted the offer, and then contacted me after the BIN transaction. He asked what my plan was for the coils. I told him they were for a coil on plug conversion for my 318is and that I ordered a total of 6 so I had a couple spares. He then asked if I wanted all of his extras for no extra charge. Some weren't as pretty, and some were a different brand with a total of 10 sent to me. I have all the emails he sent saved just in case, but basically I used 4 of them for my 318is and I now have 6 left. I plan to make another coil on plug bracket and use these for the build, but should I value each coil at $4.50 as that's essentially what I paid for all 10? Technically they were free, but weren't really publicly offered.

 

ED4F730F-2223-43E1-B936-8AA941307039 by hatchethairy, on Flickr

 

5. I bought some cheap ebay coil over kit for $39 to use the sleeves for my 318is. I'm only using half the kit for that car, so can I split the cost and budget it for $19.50 for the e21?

 

I think that's it for now, I'm sure some other stuff will pop up, but as of right now I'm hoping to get some values applied so I can budget a plan of attack.

 

 

 

 

 

captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/25/18 12:39 p.m.

Also, I feel it it worth mentioning the e30 was free. Sort of. I bartered some work with a buddy to help fix his tractor and roll back truck. All in all I'd say it was 2-3 hours of labor, and I think that's being generous. I used my tools, and he supplied the parts, that's about it. I'm not a mechanic by trade, and my hourly rate at work is a measly $15 and change per hour. The car itself was rough, all rubber parts trash, interior for the most part trash, etc. Half of the car was close to returning back to earth from the foliage and critters occupying it, and the body/paint is pretty bad. I honestly wouldn't have paid a dollar over $300 for it, but good examples are beginning to get a lot of money on BAT, so it's hard to set a market value for it. When you have to spend $10k to make it a $8k car I don't know what you do for value.

Ovid_and_Flem
Ovid_and_Flem Dork
6/25/18 12:52 p.m.

All your computations sound reasonable. Go for it. Don't forget to subtract from your hooptie any parts that you pull off. For example you remove crappy Wheels to replace with basketweaves. Their worth what $10 a piece? Therefore you can subtract $40 from the purchase price of your challenge car.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn UltimaDork
6/25/18 1:17 p.m.

Looks like a fun project.  The Recaro seats in the 320i are worth some money as well, even with the ratted out upholstery.

captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/25/18 2:13 p.m.
Ovid_and_Flem said:

All your computations sound reasonable. Go for it. Don't forget to subtract from your hooptie any parts that you pull off. For example you remove crappy Wheels to replace with basketweaves. Their worth what $10 a piece? Therefore you can subtract $40 from the purchase price of your challenge car.

I'd like to think these wheels are worth about $150-200 since they are 320is specific for 3 years, but the market will dictate that I suppose. Unfortunately 13" performance tires in this size are zero, but at least with the 14" weaves I can put Nitto NT01 on for a chunk of change.

captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/25/18 2:16 p.m.
stuart in mn said:

Looks like a fun project.  The Recaro seats in the 320i are worth some money as well, even with the ratted out upholstery.

Yeah was thinking the same thing. I figure $100-150 but not sure I want to deal with shipping them anywhere.

captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/25/18 2:40 p.m.

So just to clarify, here's my current budget, feel free to critique as needed. I don't want to screw this up.

Current purchases:

Car - $1000

e30 basketweaves - $50 or $0 as value of stock wheels are probably worth more?

coils - $4.50 each/$18 or free need clarification on that

rear trailing arm - no need to include in budget or just 0$?

m42 motor/trans/radiator/e-fan/driveshaft/ecu/etc. - $50

ebay coilover sleeves and adjusters - $19.50

TOTAL before recoup : $1137.50 or less dependent on wheel and coil prices

Budget recoup estimates:

5 speed/driveshaft - $700

m10 - $50

stock weaves - $75

Recaros - $125

TOTAL after potential recoup : $187.50

 

 

 

 

 

jr02518
jr02518 Reader
6/25/18 4:01 p.m.

FYI on your E21, check on realoem.com for the build date of the car with the Vin#.  BMW made mid-year part changes at random.

The '83 5-speed and drive shaft are a one year combination.  The rim offset on the E21 is ET13, 13X6 and if you can find them 14X6.  The front tie-rods are in the wrong place for most of the easy to find alternatives.

The stock M10 comes alive above 4000 rpm,  adjust the valves and drive it like you're stealing it.  It should pull to 6500 all day long. 

David  

 

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
6/25/18 4:30 p.m.

I think you're doing this wrong. The way I see it is you have your Challenge car $1000, field rat parts car ($15hr x 3 hours = $45), and the 320is parts car $300.  Sounds like you've zeroed out the 320is for max recovery of $300 so anything else of it is free to budget.  Did you sell anything off the field rat car?  If you've recovered the max of $45 from it then anything else is free to budget. I agree with how you're doing the coils.

captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/25/18 4:44 p.m.
Stampie said:

I think you're doing this wrong. The way I see it is you have your Challenge car $1000, field rat parts car ($15hr x 3 hours = $45), and the 320is parts car $300.  Sounds like you've zeroed out the 320is for max recovery of $300 so anything else of it is free to budget.  Did you sell anything off the field rat car?  If you've recovered the max of $45 from it then anything else is free to budget. I agree with how you're doing the coils.

So coils are free or $18?

I recoup my challenge car $1000 in a few parts alone from my quick math, so my total recoup is $1009 for next year right?

So the 318is parts would be a $45 budget hit unless I sold anything from that car for $45, then at that point it would be $0 towards budget?

Same with the other 320is parts car, selling everything off at the max of $300 and anything else that came with it is a $0 budget hit? Technically I'm only using just the trailing arm, which at this point is valued around $27 from the local parts yard. If I can't make the $300 disappear I probably would be better off using the parts yard pricing to reduce the budget hit.

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
6/25/18 4:58 p.m.

Coils price per unit so $18. Be very careful recouping without actually having cash in hand.  Also be careful to do your receipts right at purchase time. I wouldn't claim $27 for the trailing arms when you actually bought a parts car for $300. If you actually sell off $45 from the 318is and sell $1000 from the Challenge car then I'd do your budget as follows:

Cost

Challenge car $1000

318is parts car $45

320is parts car $300

Coils $18

Total cost $1345

Recoup

Challenge car $664

318is $45

320is $300

Total recovery $1009

Current budget $336

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
6/25/18 5:00 p.m.

Oh and I might be interested in those 13 inch wheels for my 2002. 

captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/25/18 5:36 p.m.
Stampie said:

Coils price per unit so $18. Be very careful recouping without actually having cash in hand.  Also be careful to do your receipts right at purchase time. I wouldn't claim $27 for the trailing arms when you actually bought a parts car for $300. If you actually sell off $45 from the 318is and sell $1000 from the Challenge car then I'd do your budget as follows:

Cost

Challenge car $1000

318is parts car $45

320is parts car $300

Coils $18

Total cost $1345

Recoup

Challenge car $664

318is $45

320is $300

Total recovery $1009

Current budget $336

My main concern with even using the $300 parts car is that I will only use the trailing arm specifically because the bearings are bad, and that is a lot of money to budget in only for some bearings. I can spend less than $20 on bearings or buy one from the 78 parts car in the junkyard for $27 and change. I know I can get $700 out of the trans before shipping, and by the time you factor in the Recaros and a modest wheel price through Ebay I've recovered my max of $1009. I love the $45 value for the 318is stuff though as that is budget friendly and realistic about purchase price. If you want the wheels, I'm sure we could work something out. I have 5 of them since there was a spare as well.

From your info, here's my estimation:

Cost

Challenge car $1000

318is parts car $45

Coils $18

Ebay coilover sleeves $19.50

Total cost $1082.50

Recoup

Challenge car $1000 ($700 trans/driveshaft - $100 m10 - $125 Recaros - $75 wheels) These are all realistic figures and at worst I can part out little stuff on the m10 to easily spread that cash out. I will begin officially pulling parts in early September, but I will place the proper prices to items once they are sold.

318is parts car $9 random parts somewhere, I'll find it

Total recovery $1009

Current budget $73.50 before figuring in wheel bearings or a spare trailing arm.

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
6/25/18 6:09 p.m.

In reply to captainawesome :

Yeah I agree about the $300 parts car. I'd do the same and just buy the needed parts and forget about using the trailing arms. 

captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/26/18 2:15 p.m.

Does anyone have experience with the "universal" camber plates on ebay? Cheapest I can find made for the e21 are $150-160 and come from Poland. If I knew dimensions of some similar patterned cars like the s13, ae86, e46, lancer evo, etc. that have a tri-bolt pattern with the adjustment going towards the peak. Just a quick glance on ebay shows quite a few, but I'm not certain I'll be able to either drill new holes in the strut tower or enlarge without some numbers.

Here's a link to some universal ones, if you know of other options I'm open to suggestion.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MK1-Universal-Fit-Camber-Plates-Toyota-MR2-AE86-Corolla-GT-S-Celica-Trueno/380425564965?hash=item5893217325:g:rx0AAOxyTjNSgY7K

 

Edit:

Considering these e46 if I can just redrill the pattern to work.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Green-Upper-Caster-Camber-Plate-for-BMW-E46-3-Series-325-328-320-Front-Top-Hats/153075716224?epid=4020826430&hash=item23a4061080:g:4UMAAOSwatdbDBbD

jr02518
jr02518 Reader
6/26/18 5:28 p.m.

 

Ireland Engineering would be your best bet,  Jeff and his staff know these cars.

www.bmw2002.com

 

The E21 page is a very active source for these cars.

www.bimmerforums.com

 

 

 

 

 

captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/26/18 9:57 p.m.
jr02518 said:

 

Ireland Engineering would be your best bet,  Jeff and his staff know these cars.

www.bmw2002.com

 

The E21 page is a very active source for these cars.

www.bimmerforums.com

 

Thanks for the links. I've ordered parts from IE for a few years now including street camber plates for my e30. I also frequent bimmerforums, unfortunately they typically frown on cheap aftermarket no name brands. Usually there is cause for that, but since this is a budget build for the challenge I need to be as frugal as possible. If I manage to piece together the suspension parts cheap enough, it may leave room for the TURBO I bought a while back. That's right folks, a turbo.

captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/27/18 11:21 a.m.

I pulled the old scuzzlebutt m42 from the corner of my garage to assess it's ability to function properly in the newly acquired e21. Spark plugs are all platinum with 4 electrodes, which from what I gather isn't an upgrade, possibly the opposite. Anyway, cylinder 1 at the front of the car was dry, 2 had a smidge of oil on it, 3 more oil than number two, and 4 was dry. Nothing looks out of the ordinary though. After removing the plug cover there was still a ton of crap sitting in that valley. Shop vac to the rescue.

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

#1
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

#2
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

#3
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

#4
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

I popped the valve cover to inspect the cams and timing gears. Honestly I wanted to put this off as the motor, if original to the chassis, had 225k miles BEFORE the odometer gear broke. Much to my surprise the cams look good as well as the upper gear teeth.

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Upper and lower time case covers were pulled to check plastic guides. Everything looks tip top and normal, even the profile gasket looks okay with a slight bit of squish. I should have powerwashed this before taking it apart though.

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Profile gasket
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

This is how I left things for the evening. I pulled the oil filter and drained the oil as well, nothing special going on there, just old oil and no metal particles. I'm smitten with the condition of everything I see at this point.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

I'm going to order some gaskets and such, but need to get a full list together so I can save on shipping. FCP Euro has been the best source price wise and the warranty can't be beat, so I'll probably go with them for the first round of parts.



 

 

captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/27/18 11:33 a.m.

Almost forgot I took a super early lunch today to go get a hood and fender from the local junkyard. They add more to my budget unfortunately, so I may try to fix the hood a little first before trying to install the new one. $47.48 for the hood and $38.57 for the fender including 10% core charges.

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Lof8
Lof8 Dork
6/27/18 11:45 a.m.

Cool project. I’m here to follow. 

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
6/27/18 10:12 p.m.

NIce. I got a 320i as a project car a few years back, and dropped an M42 into it. In the end I didn't finish the project (I kind of got bored since it was so much like the e30 that I had just done, and wanted something else), but interested to see where yours ends up. 

IDK if it will be of any use to you, but here's my build thread for the e21: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/1977-e21-bmw-320i-ugly-slow-track-car-build/64811/page1/

 

 

captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/27/18 10:56 p.m.
irish44j said:

NIce. I got a 320i as a project car a few years back, and dropped an M42 into it. In the end I didn't finish the project (I kind of got bored since it was so much like the e30 that I had just done, and wanted something else), but interested to see where yours ends up. 

IDK if it will be of any use to you, but here's my build thread for the e21: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/1977-e21-bmw-320i-ugly-slow-track-car-build/64811/page1/

 

 

Your thread has been helpful to me in many ways, but a new read through would probably be helpful. Last year I picked up a couple derelict e21s with the hopes on getting one built from the two, unfortunately rust was just too bad in areas I didn't feel comfortable tackling, so I sold them off. The m42 that's in my field rat 318is was originally purchased to put in the rusty e21. Now it's all come full circle oddly enough. I guess what I'm trying to say is thank you, the thread was super helpful in many ways as well as your other posts involving your e30. My single mass m20 flywheel swap went off without a hitch because of your information and measurements.

captainawesome
captainawesome New Reader
6/29/18 11:48 a.m.

Can anyone confirm that if I move the battery to the trunk I ABSOLUTELY HAVE to wire in a kill switch for the Challenge? From what I can tell I won't have room under the hood and plan to use e36 or e30 battery cables/junction posts set up like a factory car. Is there ANY way around this?

I should specify that I don't want an external kill switch, I think I could manage one in the dash area.

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
6/29/18 6:58 p.m.
captainawesome said:
irish44j said:

NIce. I got a 320i as a project car a few years back, and dropped an M42 into it. In the end I didn't finish the project (I kind of got bored since it was so much like the e30 that I had just done, and wanted something else), but interested to see where yours ends up. 

IDK if it will be of any use to you, but here's my build thread for the e21: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/1977-e21-bmw-320i-ugly-slow-track-car-build/64811/page1/

 

 

Your thread has been helpful to me in many ways, but a new read through would probably be helpful. Last year I picked up a couple derelict e21s with the hopes on getting one built from the two, unfortunately rust was just too bad in areas I didn't feel comfortable tackling, so I sold them off. The m42 that's in my field rat 318is was originally purchased to put in the rusty e21. Now it's all come full circle oddly enough. I guess what I'm trying to say is thank you, the thread was super helpful in many ways as well as your other posts involving your e30. My single mass m20 flywheel swap went off without a hitch because of your information and measurements.

good to hear :)

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
6/29/18 7:21 p.m.
captainawesome said:

Can anyone confirm that if I move the battery to the trunk I ABSOLUTELY HAVE to wire in a kill switch for the Challenge? From what I can tell I won't have room under the hood and plan to use e36 or e30 battery cables/junction posts set up like a factory car. Is there ANY way around this?

I should specify that I don't want an external kill switch, I think I could manage one in the dash area.

Last year we ran a small motorcycle/lawn mower battery at the Challenge. They're much smaller but it tuned over our Infiniti V8 no problem. 

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