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hhaase
hhaase Reader
6/2/17 7:43 a.m.

I'm pretty damn sure it was on right side up, but I won't know until I get a chance to pull the head. But I've got a good feeling it was just damaged when I was installing the head.

I couldn't for the life of me get the exhaust manifold out of the car. Because of the limited access I couldn't get the bolts off between the manifold and downpipe, same with the bracket attaching the manifold to the block. So I had to wedge the head into place. Probably tore one of the viton seals in the process.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce MegaDork
6/2/17 7:47 a.m.

If you need a set of hands to help we could try to slide in another head gasket in a couple weekends.

Crackers
Crackers HalfDork
6/2/17 9:10 a.m.

It's amazing how gaskets can simultaneously handle so much, and yet so little.

hhaase
hhaase Reader
6/2/17 6:31 p.m.

Well, I pulled the valve covers today to start surveying any damage. No sign of oil in the coolant, no sign of coolant in the oil, no white smoke. Other than coolant dripping down the back of the block when hot, and a low coolant level, I'd swear I didn't even have a problem. But I lose about a half cup of coolant over a 20 mile drive, and at the rate it's dripping, it's all leaking out. It's just odd. The spot that it's leaking, in the block and head, has the oil pressure feed and an oil drainback on either side of it. You'd think I'd be seeing some coolant getting somewhere else. Not going to really complain I don't think.

Trying to figure out a method to easily swap gaskets without as much of a teardown as last time, and swapping in a graphite composite gasket instead of the MLS. Basically I just need to drain the coolant down a bit, get the cams out, and get the exhaust manifold off. Then I can undo the head bolts, lift it up an inch, slide out the old and slide in the new. Hmmmmmmmm

Crackers
Crackers HalfDork
6/2/17 8:05 p.m.

LOL, I literally did exactly that with an old 22r in a buddies early 80's Yota pickup. I pulled the head up as far as I could while he wiped everything down with an S.O.S. pad and a rag, then slid a gasket in and torqued it down.

I want to say we didn't even unhook the exhaust, but it's been a couple decades.

For your purposes and end goal I'd absolutely pull it completely so everything can be inspected, just to be sure.

hhaase
hhaase Reader
6/2/17 8:32 p.m.
Crackers wrote: LOL, I literally did exactly that with an old 22r in a buddies early 80's Yota pickup. I pulled the head up as far as I could while he wiped everything down with an S.O.S. pad and a rag, then slid a gasket in and torqued it down. I want to say we didn't even unhook the exhaust, but it's been a couple decades. For your purposes and end goal I'd absolutely pull it completely so everything can be inspected, just to be sure.

When I had the head off last month I did about as much as I can do in that regard. Was nice and flat when I checked it on a surface plate. Cleaned it all up, all new valve seals, cleaned the hell out of the block face. Everything looked spot-on. All by hand, nice and gentle, so I didn't score it or warp it. Just that I've never really worked with MLS gaskets before and I'm learning the hard way how picky they can be.

ErikTheSwede
ErikTheSwede New Reader
6/2/17 10:54 p.m.

Nice build. I had an 86 NA car and a 89 supercharged car. 86 got sold to an scca autocrosser and the 89 got destroyed. I still have the engine cover for the supercharged car that nobody has ever wanted. I saved it because I am a bit of a parts hoarder. You can have it if you want it but you will need to pay for shipping. Let me know if you want it

hhaase
hhaase Reader
6/3/17 7:59 a.m.

Where you located? Would be a good thing to have if I ever get that turbo build going with the other engine

ErikTheSwede
ErikTheSwede New Reader
6/3/17 1:49 p.m.

Sarasota, Fl.

hhaase
hhaase Reader
6/3/17 2:31 p.m.

Can't turn down that deal. Particularly if I'm eventually planning on adding a turbo and intercooler. Shoot me an email so we can work out details. Hans -at- siegecraft.us

pinchvalve
pinchvalve MegaDork
6/3/17 6:07 p.m.

I swapped out my head gasket without a complete teardown. I will see if I can find photos to recall how I did it.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve MegaDork
6/3/17 6:28 p.m.

Not much helpful, but I did have this in the archive.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve MegaDork
6/3/17 6:28 p.m.

Awww, memories.

hhaase
hhaase Reader
6/3/17 9:02 p.m.

Actually, hugely helpful photo. Seeing how a backward gasket sits also confirms I have mine on correctly. If you have it on RIGHT, the gasket is visible a bit between the distributor and the cam gears. Backwards it won't be visible. Since that's exactly the spot my leak is I've had a real close look at that area.

Out of curiosity, which gasket is that you used, and how well did it hold up? I'm really guessing that using an MLS gasket on these motors is a crapshoot without resurfacing both the head and block. Since mine's leaking from the block side of the gasket there's nothing else I could have done here, since I can't resurface the block without a full teardown and rebuild of the whole damn engine.

hhaase
hhaase Reader
6/4/17 5:00 p.m.

Meanwhile, back at the hall of doom.....

I still have a trailer to sort out. I have a plan for doing a new deck, which will be pretty simple, but I'd also like to get the wheels to match what's on the MR2 for logistical simplification (I.E. hauling only 1 spare instead of 2). The trailer was home-built by Grandpa sometime between 1970 and 1990, maybe earlier, things are a bit ... vague ... on the history here. Not too important really either since it's just a knock around homebuilt trailer.

Anyway. Axle is basically some 2x2 tube, with flat plates on the end, and bolt-on spindles of an unknown type. I'm hoping maybe somebody could suggest some rear spindles or unitized bearings from an FWD car that'll bolt onto a flat plate and take 4x100 wheels. There's a significant reinforcing piece on the back, so whatever it is, it has to bolt onto a flat plate. I can't cut a big clearance hole.

Here's a photo of the existing spindle of unknown vintage. Nothing wrong with it, just want a 4x100 pattern there. Looks like they were from a '49 to '54 Chevy, modified to fit the flat plate. Not that it gives much help to the problem but makes interesting conversation.

sleepyhead
sleepyhead Reader
6/4/17 9:25 p.m.

.

hhaase wrote:

I'm hoping maybe somebody could suggest some rear spindles or unitized bearings from an FWD car that'll bolt onto a flat plate and take 4x100 wheels. There's a significant reinforcing piece on the back, so whatever it is, it has to bolt onto a flat plate. I can't cut a big clearance hole.

maybe the rear's off a first gen Honda Fit (07-08)? The spindles bolt up to the flat flange of a torsion beam end, and the hubs are 4x100. (iirc, gen 1 insights are similar)

hhaase
hhaase Reader
6/4/17 9:32 p.m.

Hmmmm. My internet is being a douche, so having trouble doing many searches, but maybe. Trying to get a clear photo and/or part number.

sleepyhead
sleepyhead Reader
6/4/17 9:38 p.m.

bernardi auto parts, check out "rear axle" and "rear brake drum"

hhaase
hhaase Reader
6/5/17 5:08 p.m.

Definitely going to take a close look at those FIT spindles. From what I can see, the bore is too big to take factory MR2 wheels, but any of the aftermarket 4x100's should fit just fine with some hubcentric rings.

Also, WTF, is everybody selling the same head gasket these days? Only Mahle was advertising a graphite composite head gasket for the 4AGE, so I ordered one, and guess what.... same exact MLS gasket as the FelPro, even sub-stamped with the same part number (9661PT). Made in Japan, which is good, but I really don't want an MLS.

-Hans

sleepyhead
sleepyhead Reader
6/5/17 8:17 p.m.

I went looking around last night for more options, thinking about 4x100, FWD, and 'twist beam' or 'torsion beam' cars. Unfortunately Versa's are 4x114; and as far as I could tell Mitsubishi Colts have the spindle welded onto the torsion beam.

I'll see if I can dig up the Mazda 2. It should be 4x100. Another option might be the old Ford Aspires?

sleepyhead
sleepyhead Reader
6/5/17 8:23 p.m.

Looks like Mazda2's are 54.1mm PCD.

Might be a workable setup too? I don't see a spindle in that image... but it looks to be about the same price for the hub and spindle on the Fit.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce MegaDork
6/5/17 8:30 p.m.

The Mazda2 spindle does just bolt to the beam. You might have to take a peek at them with and without the drum to see if you need to run empty drums to make it all stay together. It doesn't look like you do. The cheaper ones are $72 each on Rock Auto.

sleepyhead
sleepyhead Reader
6/5/17 9:20 p.m.

That Mazda2 looks like it's a Spindle/Hub/Bearing all in one; especially since RockAuto doesn't have a "spindle nut" listing.
Where as the Fit the Spindle is separate from the Hub/Bearing (and as far as my searches show, the spindle is only available from Honda).

mazdeuce
mazdeuce MegaDork
6/6/17 12:17 a.m.

Yes, on the 2 it's a unitized bearing.

hhaase
hhaase Reader
6/6/17 7:40 a.m.

Wow, the Mazda2 bearing is even better, same bore size as the MR2. So I only need to worry about one size of hubcentric rings.

Bad news on the engine front, or at least more information on the same old bad news, definitely going to need a head gasket. It's leaking both oil and coolant, though at least both are external leaks, so not contaminating the insides of the engine.

Kinda helps things make a bit more sense though to be honest. The spot where I was seeing coolant seeping out also has oil passages, and I was confused I wasn't seeing any intermixing anywhere. I figured that if one was leaking I should see evidence of both. Initially I also wasn't sure if I was leaking oil or coolant, but figured that maybe the coolant was washing oil grime off the block. I was also surprised at how little coolant I was having to add compared to the drip rate I was seeing when I pulled back into the driveway. Well that's because I'm loosing a good amount of oil too in the same vicinity.

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