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teamilluminata
teamilluminata HalfDork
11/26/12 5:42 p.m.

Update: We fixed all the pictures on one build thread but it's way too much work to fix them on all threads, including this one. Sorry. Anyway you can now see a thread with ALL the pictures at Pelican Parts

Sorry, picture's links got deleted. They resume later but it is too much work to put them all back.

We finally sourced a donor for our RallyCross project car, a nice 84 911 Carrera with 100K on the clock. Though we haven't receievd the car yet it is supposedly in great mechanical condition with just a few minor cosmetic defects. Sounds perfect.

The plan is to campaign the car in Detroit SCCA Rallycross program while slowly developing it into a dirt monster. The Detroit program runs yea-round so this car is going to see plenty of snow and ice as well as dirt. To help with development we'll also throw the car at some local autocrosses and track days but the main focus is RallyCross. We have been competing with our Subaru Ouback since the program began some six years ago so it's time for a new challenge. As we are fairly new to the marque we will be asking lots of questions on this forum to aid in the development so brace yourself for some pretty dumb ones.

Here's some pictures of the car from the eBay ad:

and what inspires us:

and one of the car it is replacing:

The first event is December 8th so, assuming the thing runs when it gets here we will have a bit of mad prep to do. Because of the specs of the BRAID rally wheels we will but running it is already out of Stock class and into Prepared where, coincidentally, it will be up against a couple of 944s. Top of the list is to get some snow tires mounted to the wheels and slap those on, then some number panels and hopefull try to lift it. Stupid question #1: can one easily lift a 911 by indexing the torsion bars? An inch would be nice but anything would help as we are afarid of ripping the front spoiler off at stock ride height. We may get away with removing the lip spoiler beforehand though that is technically illegal. I dont think the competiton will mind unless we beat them.

We also have to add an AC compressor to be within the Prepared rules. Apparantly one of the previous owners removed the AC from the car so we might be looking for a used broken unit if anyone has one. Of course, if we can prove it was a factory delete then we can run without it.

Bookmark this thread for more stupid questions and a blizzard of updates.

fidelity101
fidelity101 Reader
11/26/12 5:47 p.m.

Hurry up and MR with us already!

teamilluminata
teamilluminata Reader
11/26/12 5:58 p.m.
fidelity101 wrote: Hurry up and MR with us already!

This is why you are not a doctor. No Patients.

fidelity101
fidelity101 Reader
11/26/12 6:13 p.m.

Also, for some reason DETSCCA boards don't load at work and using the phone won't always let me post for some reason, just zooms in more...

PR shall be the Porsche RWD class and MR will be the 'mazdastang' RWD class.

Also, I want a ride in it come December!

irish44j
irish44j UltraDork
11/26/12 6:27 p.m.

Oh, definitely subscribing to this one :)

But I'd just go straight to MR and then do whatever you want, and not even have to think about the rules

What are your courses like up that way? Out here our PR/MR area almost completely e30s and RX7s, with a couple AW12 MR2s. No porsches, no mustangs...

fidelity101
fidelity101 Reader
11/26/12 6:28 p.m.

Horse track, circle track, empty field or some combination of the sort.

Mostly just rx7s, mustangs and miatas. Every now and again you get some oddball stuff or stage rally cars.

EvanB
EvanB PowerDork
11/26/12 6:34 p.m.

Guess I really have to come up to some Michigan events now.

fidelity101
fidelity101 Reader
11/26/12 6:45 p.m.
EvanB wrote: Guess I really have to come up to some Michigan events now.

You can crash at my place if you need to, zip is 48067.

octavious
octavious Reader
11/27/12 7:56 a.m.

First off, that's WICKED FREAKING AWESOME. I would love to have a rally 911.

As far as some of your questions, the torsion bars on the 911 are easily indexted to give you lift or lowering. In your case since you are lifting I think the issue will be how much can you index the rear and still keep the CV axles at the correct angles. I know on VW buggy applications they use longer CV axles from a bus. I'm not sure what the 911 option would be, but that might be something you can look in to. I know when I did the front of my 911, I was trying to go lower, and went the wrong way. I had a Dakar look going on and loved it. The fronts are super easy to do. The rears have a little more math involved but can be done.

Also, there are stiffer torision bar options. I'm not sure if 964 bars are thicker than Carrera bars, but I know I moved from stock mid year bars to thicker bars on mine.

As far as ripping the front spoiler off, are you talking about the black rubberish/plastic one? That was an option and not stock, it can easily be taken off, its only held on with a couple bolts. That would give you an extra couple inches in the front. As a side note, that spoiler could probably be resold for a few extra bucks. If you look it is called a front chin spoiler.

Also, not sure if you are aware or not, but the fuel pump for the 911 is up front underneath the gas tank. It does have a cover plate to keep it protected, but you might want to check the thickness of the metal. It may need to be beefed up due to your rally application.

As far as the a/c compressor, do you need just the compressor or the whole setup, lines, condensor, etc? I might have some stuff in the attic you can have, let me look and get back to you.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/27/12 8:15 a.m.

When do you get the car? I think you need to bring it to the SE Mi get together this Thursday in Royal Oak, 6:30 at BAstone.

I konw I live really close to you as I see your cars around, but I don't know where.

I can't wait to see it. I wont be at the 12/8 rallycross with the SAAB, but I hope to Make January or Feb, I need to find cheap snow tires to use unless you have any super cheap used rally tires still

teamilluminata
teamilluminata Reader
11/27/12 8:38 a.m.
octavious wrote: First off, that's WICKED FREAKING AWESOME. I would love to have a rally 911. As far as some of your questions, the torsion bars on the 911 are easily indexted to give you lift or lowering. In your case since you are lifting I think the issue will be how much can you index the rear and still keep the CV axles at the correct angles. I know on VW buggy applications they use longer CV axles from a bus. I'm not sure what the 911 option would be, but that might be something you can look in to. I know when I did the front of my 911, I was trying to go lower, and went the wrong way. I had a Dakar look going on and loved it. The fronts are super easy to do. The rears have a little more math involved but can be done. Also, there are stiffer torision bar options. I'm not sure if 964 bars are thicker than Carrera bars, but I know I moved from stock mid year bars to thicker bars on mine. As far as ripping the front spoiler off, are you talking about the black rubberish/plastic one? That was an option and not stock, it can easily be taken off, its only held on with a couple bolts. That would give you an extra couple inches in the front. As a side note, that spoiler could probably be resold for a few extra bucks. If you look it is called a front chin spoiler. Also, not sure if you are aware or not, but the fuel pump for the 911 is up front underneath the gas tank. It does have a cover plate to keep it protected, but you might want to check the thickness of the metal. It may need to be beefed up due to your rally application. As far as the a/c compressor, do you need just the compressor or the whole setup, lines, condensor, etc? I might have some stuff in the attic you can have, let me look and get back to you.

The front would be the most important end to raise, at least innitially. To be honest it's mostly to protect the chin spoiler so if that can easily and legally be removed that may be all I need. One of my employees already has his eye on it. He has the whale tail but no chin spolier. Maybe a deal can be struck. I hadn't considered the axle length. Good point. Dakar is not the goal though. An Inch might be nice but if it's a pain in the arse we'll leave it stock especially when autocross season rolls around. My Outback has coilovers so it would be up and down all the time. Really simple to do. If it's that easy we'll play with it. If not, we'll live with it.

I've heard about the fuel pump and some brass oil lines too. I'm planning to take the car to Thompson Racing Fabrication in Milan, Michigan to asses what can be done. Ryan has built many a custom piece for my Outback and does great work. I've seen a few pictures of the SC/RS plates and it looks like they had/have almost a full undertray. I hope we don't have to go that far but untll I get under the car I'm not sure what is vulnerable. Having said that RallyCross is supossed to be fairly benign with regards to damage so I won't need full stage rally armor.

To be totally legal I should reinstall the AC unless I can show that it either never had AC or that AC was an option. However, the people I race with, especially the rallycross crowd, are very easy going and I'm sure they would be happy if I had just the big heavy compressor bolted in place. Untill I start beating that is.

Woody
Woody MegaDork
11/27/12 8:39 a.m.

Very cool plan.

FYI, once you add that a/c compressor, access to the air filter housing will become extremely difficult, and I'd imagine that you'll be changing filters frequently. If the system doesn't actually need to work, you may just want to bolt in a smaller compressor or try to relocate it. Maybe you can use it as ballast somewhere.

teamilluminata
teamilluminata HalfDork
11/27/12 8:43 a.m.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: When do you get the car? I think you need to bring it to the SE Mi get together this Thursday in Royal Oak, 6:30 at BAstone. I konw I live really close to you as I see your cars around, but I don't know where. I can't wait to see it. I wont be at the 12/8 rallycross with the SAAB, but I hope to Make January or Feb, I need to find cheap snow tires to use unless you have any super cheap used rally tires still

Depending on who I talk to either this afternoon or Friday. Big window to hit.

Bastone used to be one of my favourite restaurants. What meeting is it, Porsche? is the meeting inside or in the parking lot?

I live in Birmingham. If you live anywhere close it's hard to miss our cars isn't it. Though, I am amazed how little attention the race car gets in downtown Birmingham. I guess my neighbors have better things to do when they are crossing the street then paying attention to moving vehicles. LOL

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/27/12 8:46 a.m.

It's more of a meet and greet inside to sample the great food, beer and welcome Jeff AKA Protege2886 to SE Michigan.

I think your NE of 14 and Southfield, I'm right next door to Beverly park off Beverly road.

teamilluminata
teamilluminata Reader
11/27/12 9:27 a.m.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: It's more of a meet and greet inside to sample the great food, beer and welcome Jeff AKA Protege2886 to SE Michigan. I think your NE of 14 and Southfield, I'm right next door to Beverly park off Beverly road.

OK, i'll see if I can make it. We are on Washington Blvd. Practically neighbors!

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/27/12 9:52 a.m.
teamilluminata wrote:
Adrian_Thompson wrote: It's more of a meet and greet inside to sample the great food, beer and welcome Jeff AKA Protege2886 to SE Michigan. I think your NE of 14 and Southfield, I'm right next door to Beverly park off Beverly road.

OK, i'll see if I can make it. We are on Washington Blvd. Practically neighbors!

You have a stalker now, I'll be poking around some time

oldtin
oldtin SuperDork
11/27/12 10:03 a.m.

Very cool project. I'm jealous. Those stock york a/c compressors are monsters. If you have to have a/c, would a sanden upgrade pass? About 10lbs lighter and smaller. Oh, since I have no couth, how did you do on the buy-in price?

teamilluminata
teamilluminata Reader
11/27/12 11:06 a.m.
Woody wrote: Very cool plan. FYI, once you add that a/c compressor, access to the air filter housing will become extremely difficult, and I'd imagine that you'll be changing filters frequently. If the system doesn't actually need to work, you may just want to bolt in a smaller compressor or try to relocate it. Maybe you can use it as ballast somewhere.

If i'm to pacify the rule zealots, if there are any, I think full size is the only option. If it is easy to bolt in perhaps it will be easy to remove for filter access. We also have "intake" on the list, hopefully resulting in something easier to change or clean too.

teamilluminata
teamilluminata Reader
11/27/12 11:07 a.m.
Adrian_Thompson wrote:
teamilluminata wrote:
Adrian_Thompson wrote: It's more of a meet and greet inside to sample the great food, beer and welcome Jeff AKA Protege2886 to SE Michigan. I think your NE of 14 and Southfield, I'm right next door to Beverly park off Beverly road.

OK, i'll see if I can make it. We are on Washington Blvd. Practically neighbors!

You have a stalker now, I'll be poking around some time

YAY, I'm popular!

teamilluminata
teamilluminata Reader
11/27/12 11:08 a.m.
oldtin wrote: Very cool project. I'm jealous. Those stock york a/c compressors are monsters. If you have to have a/c, would a sanden upgrade pass? About 10lbs lighter and smaller. Oh, since I have no couth, how did you do on the buy-in price?

No, I think it has to be full size. Buy it now price? Significantly below.

fidelity101
fidelity101 Reader
11/27/12 11:14 a.m.
teamilluminata wrote:
Woody wrote: Very cool plan. FYI, once you add that a/c compressor, access to the air filter housing will become extremely difficult, and I'd imagine that you'll be changing filters frequently. If the system doesn't actually need to work, you may just want to bolt in a smaller compressor or try to relocate it. Maybe you can use it as ballast somewhere.

If i'm to pacify the rule zealots, if there are any, I think full size is the only option. If it is easy to bolt in perhaps it will be easy to remove for filter access. We also have "intake" on the list, hopefully resulting in something easier to change or clean too.

I don't think anyone will care, the RWD guys are more lax and usually have such a small turnout that we all run together in the same class, but we are seeing more competitors... which is nice.

Hell Burke and Jon just slapped those knobbbbbbby on their stock miata and raced in modified class.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/27/12 3:09 p.m.

It might be better to start a new thread, but what's a good snow tire for Detroit rallycross sites?

teamilluminata
teamilluminata Reader
11/27/12 3:42 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: It might be better to start a new thread, but what's a good snow tire for Detroit rallycross sites?

Perhaps but:

I've won on Blizzak WS50 and Winterforce though the Winterforce win was cold mud not snow

mazdeuce
mazdeuce HalfDork
11/27/12 3:53 p.m.

I don't rallycross in Detroit, but the winter force is a fantastic tire. Cheap and grippy. There is a reason that they're sort of the tire of choice.

fidelity101
fidelity101 Reader
11/27/12 4:03 p.m.

Any winter tire would be ideal, you want a wider tire smaller sidewall if you are on hard packed surfaces, if you are in loose surfaces you ideally want a taller narrower snow tire to cut through the muck rather than sit on top of it.

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