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mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
12/18/17 10:13 a.m.

Cars fall into three basic categories for me.
1. Cars I want. 
2. Cars I don't want. 
3. Cars I want to drive and spend time in but I don't want to actually own for various reasons. 
At the top of #3 is the Miata. I LOVE driving them on course. Rallycross is perferred to Autocross, but I'll take a co-drive in any Miata anywhere. The problem is that I don't like them as street cars. The seating and visibility feels weird on the street. I hate convertibles. I despise the fact that the chassis feels like a noodly floppy 60's car over bumps. Mostly it's just one of the cars that doesn't feel like "me". I always say that cars are more than transportation, we wear cars like a suit of clothes. We want to feel comfortable in the car. Sitting in a Miata feels like I'm wearing someone else's pants. They may be great pants, but it just feels weird. 

So for years and years I've driven other people's Miatas, loved the hell out of the drive, and then sent them home. Fantastic day, not my problem. Until last night. 

This is a 1999 Miata owned by forum member Spacecadet. You might remember him from adventures like "buying Mazdeuce's STS Civic and driving it to nationals and ending up on the cover of SportsCar" or "I'm going to video these parade laps in the R63 the day before it explodes". We have fun. He lets me drive his car. Good guy. 

Unfortunately he's caught up in a tornado of things happening all at once. He just accepted a GREAT new job which requires a move, he gets to fly home to have Christmas with his parents for the first time in five years, and his Miata broke. It was acting like it had a fuel issue, then it stopped running. Then when it restarted it turned the exhaust manifold a nice cherry color, and finally it backfired through the intake hard enough to pop the airbox apart. He's got no time to fix the car, no extra car to drive while it's being fixed, nothing to move his stuff in, he's hosed. The easy solution was to move his new car purchase up a year and sell the Miata as is for a loss. That's unacceptable. I told him that as a giant karmic rebalancing act for all of the times Miatas haven't been my problem, he should drop this one off at my house and I'd let it be my problem. 

Normal Miata engine, except it's broken. 

Battery is dead, went to charge it and the undertray is in the trunk. At least I don't have to take that off. I do have to clean it though. The front of the motor is covered with oil. 

And in the armrest are the bolts for the undertray, and the crank sensor. That's probably important. 

The suspicion right now is that the timing jumped. Maybe a couple of times. It looks like taking of the valve cover to check is about 8 bolts? Is that right? What does the TDC mark on the crank look like? I've got VERY limited hours to look at things before Christmas, so I'm just going to poke around, see what I can see, and get back to it after the first of the year. 

It really is a nice car. The interior is much better than usual for it's age and it's been repainted a sparkly white that is much better than an autocross Miata deserves. It's got a few go-fast suspension bits on it and it's a fun car to drive. The plan is to fix it, and Spacecadet is either going to sell it or keep it depending on how life works out between now and then. There is a part of me that wants the motor to have fragged itself so I can do a K swap and a Paco lift kit and just be dumb, but it's not my car, so we're crossing our fingers for cheap an easy. 

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 MegaDork
12/18/17 10:26 a.m.

I like watching you fix broken cars. Muchbetter than e fixing my own.

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
12/18/17 12:09 p.m.

Man I didn't know you offered a drop of service. I have several that I could leave with you for a while. You want to start with ginormous American truck or petite German race car?

RedGT
RedGT Dork
12/18/17 1:33 p.m.

Rather than trying to figure out what timing marks are what on a possibly-borked engine, put the crank with the keyway and pin (first pic to show pin is aligned with keyway) straight up, and see if the 'I' and 'E' marks on the cams align with the marks on the plate behind them, which is visible when you pop the valve cover off.  If hard to see down there to the plate, note how the 'E' on the exhaust cam is straight up and the 'I' on the intake cam is straight up.  If they're not aligned, rotate the crank 360* and look again.  If they're still not right, something jumped.

 

 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
12/18/17 1:50 p.m.

Popped the valve cover off. Does this motor really still have provisions for a distributor on the back of the engine? 
Anyway, turned it over until the marks were shown as above. Cams were timed to each other correctly, which was nice. Took a look down at the balancer and.......no marks. 
The internet says that the second mark should line up like so, is this correct? 

So I set the balancer as shown above, and now the cams look like this. 8 teeth off? 

That's where we'll start after the new year. I'll order parts to strategically show up by the time I get back so I can dig in. What all do I need? What do I do while I'm in there? If I'm going to do this I'd like to to the "I want to keep it for 10 more years" job. Assuming the owner is on board with that level of fixing of course. 

Oh, and I scrubbed the undertray. Once it's dry I'll give a a good soaking with 303. I hate handling dirty plastic. 

In reply to Stampie :

I'm trying to imagine a situation where driving something all the way to Texas would make sense for you. I'm intrigued by the possibilities. laugh

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
12/18/17 3:12 p.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Did I mention the British shooting brake that was more expensive than the Ferraris of the time?  Also so ugly that my ideas involve a rebody?

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
12/18/17 3:17 p.m.

In reply to Stampie :

I don't know what  you're talking about, but I want to come get it before you break it. 

Kylini
Kylini Dork
12/18/17 3:34 p.m.

Not sure if the cams are aligned, but the number of teeth between them on the belt looks fine (19). Oil on the front of the engine sometimes means bad front crank seal.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
12/18/17 4:54 p.m.

I think we're looking at timing belt, tensioner, idler?, water pump, main seal, valve cover gasket, probably the coolant re-route and........whate else should we do?

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 MegaDork
12/18/17 5:23 p.m.

Cam seals.

Accessory belts

Radiator hoses

Pcv

Plugs and wires

NOHOME
NOHOME UltimaDork
12/18/17 5:59 p.m.
Stampie said:

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Did I mention the British shooting brake that was more expensive than the Ferraris of the time?  Also so ugly that my ideas involve a rebody?

karplus2
karplus2 GRM+ Memberand New Reader
12/18/17 6:09 p.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Popped the valve cover off. Does this motor really still have provisions for a distributor on the back of the engine?

Kind of. There is a cam position sensor on the back of the cam closer to the exhaust manifold that is adjustable to adjust timing. I only know this because I did a 99 head swap onto a 96 1.8L Miata. That sensor is on the other cam on the earlier cars and had to be moved.

paranoid_android
paranoid_android UltraDork
12/18/17 6:11 p.m.

In reply to Stampie :

I’m guessing it starts with an L and ends with an S.  A project car that was finished by no one ever?

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 MegaDork
12/18/17 6:28 p.m.
karplus2 said:
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Popped the valve cover off. Does this motor really still have provisions for a distributor on the back of the engine?

Kind of. There is a cam position sensor on the back of the cam closer to the exhaust manifold that is adjustable to adjust timing. I only know this because I did a 99 head swap onto a 96 1.8L Miata. That sensor is on the other cam on the earlier cars and had to be moved.

Got a link on how to adjust the timing with this? Have a 99 that feels a little off....

 

Everything ive seen says 99-2000 is non adjustable 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
12/18/17 7:15 p.m.

In reply to paranoid_android :

Now you've got me wondering, is it a real Shooting Brake, or just a car with exuberant buttressing. 

dropstep
dropstep SuperDork
12/18/17 7:20 p.m.

Im normally an old american car guy but for some reason i follow all your build threads. So ill follow this too!

karplus2
karplus2 GRM+ Memberand New Reader
12/18/17 7:30 p.m.
Dusterbd13 said:
karplus2 said:
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Popped the valve cover off. Does this motor really still have provisions for a distributor on the back of the engine?

Kind of. There is a cam position sensor on the back of the cam closer to the exhaust manifold that is adjustable to adjust timing. I only know this because I did a 99 head swap onto a 96 1.8L Miata. That sensor is on the other cam on the earlier cars and had to be moved.

Got a link on how to adjust the timing with this? Have a 99 that feels a little off....

 

Everything ive seen says 99-2000 is non adjustable 

Ah yes, you are correct. I had to pull the plug out of the back of the head to move the cam sensor onto the 99 head. It has been a long time since I had that car. I tend to forget important little things like that.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
12/18/17 7:48 p.m.
dropstep said:

Im normally an old american car guy but for some reason i follow all your build threads. So ill follow this too!

Thanks, my impression of Miatas is that they're akin to a Corvette turned down to 5 or 6. Bit of a technologically old engine, nothing geounbreaking as far as the chassis, rather attractive wrapper, but all put together in a way that just works. We'll see if that opinion changes as I mess around with this one. 

codrus
codrus GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
12/18/17 7:55 p.m.
karplus2 said:
Dusterbd13 said:
karplus2 said:
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Popped the valve cover off. Does this motor really still have provisions for a distributor on the back of the engine?

Kind of. There is a cam position sensor on the back of the cam closer to the exhaust manifold that is adjustable to adjust timing. I only know this because I did a 99 head swap onto a 96 1.8L Miata. That sensor is on the other cam on the earlier cars and had to be moved.

Got a link on how to adjust the timing with this? Have a 99 that feels a little off....

 

Everything ive seen says 99-2000 is non adjustable 

Ah yes, you are correct. I had to pull the plug out of the back of the head to move the cam sensor onto the 99 head. It has been a long time since I had that car. I tend to forget important little things like that.

 

The cam sensor on the back of the head is for the 94-97 motor.  96-97 OBD2 cars got a crank sensor for misfire detection, then in '99 they started using the crank sensor for primary control, deleted the big sensor on the back of the head, and added a low resolution cam sensor to the front of the intake cam just so the ECU could tell which phase the cam was on.  The 94-97 cam sensors have significant error because of timing belt stretch at higher RPMs, the 99+ crank sensors are much more accurate.  But yes, NBs are not timing adjustable without an aftermarket ECU.

You could put a distributor on there, but you'd need to cut a big hole in the firewall.

I can never remember which way the marks are supposed to go, so I always just pop the spark plug out of #1, stick a long screwdriver down there, and watch it while I turn the crank.  It's pretty easy to find TDC that way.  The other advantage to this is that it will let you figure out if the crank keyway is screwed up, or if the rubber in the harmonic damper has failed and let the marks move.

And yeah, those cams look WAY off.

 

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
12/18/17 9:08 p.m.
NOHOME said:
Stampie said:

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Did I mention the British shooting brake that was more expensive than the Ferraris of the time?  Also so ugly that my ideas involve a rebody?

I wish mine looked that cool. 

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
12/18/17 9:11 p.m.
paranoid_android said:

In reply to Stampie :

I’m guessing it starts with an L and ends with an S.  A project car that was finished by no one ever?

You win. Lotus Elite Type 75.  Not mine but what it looked like at one point in time. 

Pete Gossett
Pete Gossett GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/18/17 9:22 p.m.

In reply to Stampie :

I want one of those badly. 

bluej
bluej GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
12/18/17 9:42 p.m.

I think you should fix it, put your vinyl machine to work making pheonix graphics (rising from the engine backfire), and come do battle against the teal prancing unicorn at the 2018 east coast rx national challenge (or whatever they're calling it this year).

 

You respond well to goals.. devil

 

 

Edit: wow. That's the first time I tried to link an image since the new board layout. That was horrible.

Edit2: so now vbb code tags work but html doesn't ? Oye.

paranoid_android
paranoid_android UltraDork
12/19/17 11:38 a.m.

In reply to Stampie :

Lol- I was hoping that was it!

I don’t remember where I read you owned it- but I sure didn’t forget you have it!

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/14/18 7:04 p.m.

A note to anyone who's thinking "I'll just have Mazdeuce fix it!", I'm just now getting to this car. Hurrying isn't really my thing. cheeky

After a successful water pump change on Mrs. Deuce's FJ Cruiser yesterday I was all pumped up to knock this project out. Kids are off school tomorrow which means I can spread the work over two days, this should be easy, right? Radiator and all that jazz out. So much room for activities. 

The whole front of the motor was covered in oil so I decided to start at the top by replacing the cam seals. There seems to be two ways to approach this. The first is to pry the seal out either with some janky tool or by drilling a small hole in the seal and putting in a screw. The second is to pull the cam caps and just slide the seal out. Since I have a proper inch/pound torque wrench for re-torquing the caps, I elected to pull them. That and I wanted to see what sort of shape things were in because of all the leaking. I found this on the exhaust cam. It looks like someone tried the drill trick and got a little trigger happy. This explains the leak. Pretty sure that's never going to seal right. 

Used the FM tool to push the new seal in. I could have probably found the right size socket or piece of pipe, but these are pretty slick. 

I did the intake side too, but no dramatic cam injuries, so no pictures. On to the main seal. Did I mention that oil was ALL OVER this motor. It's gross. Off with the pulley!

Except that didn't work. At all. The pulley holder didn't actually hold anything, it just sort of spun, which isn't good. I immediately hopped on GRM and asked how to deal with it. I ended up with the spectacular advice of bracing the breaker bar and backing the bolt out with the starter. It felt very wrong, but worked very well. And this is what we found. Sorry for the blurry. 

This is bad. The key is broken and the outer piece of the pulley is worse than the crank. The inner piece is pretty stuck. I'll work on gently taking it off tomorrow. We knew the car was broken when it was delivered, the question was "how broken is it". Turns out it's pretty broken. 

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