Bringing a Skippy Car back to life

I picked up a few things at the Skip Barber auction.  Two of their open wheel parts cars, "the last Ricardo" transmission, and a couple pallets of open wheel parts were going to be donor parts for a MOD class autocross car.  Once I got them home and looked things over it was decided that because the roller chassis was in such good shape it would be so much easier/cheaper to rebuild it.  Here's how things are going so far.

The chassis had a motor, but the chassis was very oily.  A quick glance thru the side of the engine block and out the other side confirmed the source of the oil.

The red tag on the transmission identified it as "the last ricardo" and said it had knocking from differential.  I've cleaned it up and will investigate it's problems after I get engine running.  I've looked online and other than corporate headquarters I have found very little info on Ricardo gearboxes other than they aquired Gemini (who may have been the original manfacturer of this trans). If anybody has some knowledge on this trans please share

I was able to trade some parts for another skippy engine.  I don't know if it runs but it came from a wrecked chassis.  I'm assuming it runs because cars that don't run are much harder to wreck.  I would have just gotten a junkyard neon engine but the rods destroyed the custom low profile oil pan as they made their exit.  As I was cleaning up the new engine I discovered there were no spark plugs.  I swapped in the plugs from the blown engine to fill the holes so I could pressure wash it.    Once clean I removed plugs so I wouldn't forget to  remove them and hydraulic the engine when I cranked it.  I squirted in some wd40 in the plugs holes just in case there was some rust on the rings and figured what didn't get blown out on the initial cranks without plugs would eventually burn off from combustion.  I changed the oil, looked like used oil, no foam, no water, no chunks or shinny bits.

I finally got the engine and trans together  and in the chassis.  Everything is connected for the engine to run.  The chassis didn't have an ECU but one of my parts pallets had a few engine harness, one was attached to an ECU, another was brand new.  I tried to remove the ECU from the older crusty harness but the screw wouldn't back out.  I think the nut inside the ECU is spinning.  I cleaned up the old harness and installed it with the ECU.  One of the chassis even had a battery with it and it held a charge (enough to crank it a few times) so I connected it.   I hear fuel pump whirring, a good sign.  I disconnected fuel pump and pushed starter button.  And something happened.  I wasn't expecting anything to happen.  I was sure it wasn't going to crank but it did.  Remember when I took out the spark plugs?  Good thing I did.  It spewed a bunch of nasty rust water out of the number 2 hole.  I wiped things up and congratulated myself for thinking ahead.  As I was coming back from trash can I looked up an noticed this.

Looks chunky.  That ceiling is 14 ft high and it went splat hard enough for chunks to stick.

So after cranking for a while, it was time for fuel and spark plugs.  First plug in spark plugs and check spark.  All sparking but dimmer than I would like but the cranking speed has slowed down a bit.  Right now I'm just looking to verify if engine has everything it needs to start.  I put my thumb over spark plug holes and all seem to squeeze some air.  Two of three parts are present. 

Let's add some fuel and reconnect pump.  No leaks, that's a good start.  Fuel pressure in rail, even better.  Grab the fire extinguisher it's time to really try to start this thing.  Everything needed is there, it should fire.  Nope.

I pulled the plugs and they didn't smell like fuel.  check spark again and it's still good, better with jump box.  Time to check injectors.  All four had a positive voltage at plug.  Cylinders 1,3 and 4 would only pulse once on cranking and I had to cycle the power to be able to get a successful pulse on the next injector.  C.ylinder 2 was pulsing as it should.   It was same with only one injector unplugged or with all injectors unplugged.

I suspect something is telling the ECU to no send fuel or the ECU is fried.  I tried to plug my cheap OBDII scanner into the plug but it wouldn't even come on.  There are only four wires to the car side of the OBDII connector,  maybe scanner needs its own power source.  If it has a battery in it it might be dead.  I will have to try on suburban later.

If it is an ECU issue my concern is retrieving the custom standalone tune from this ECU and getting it into a new one.  I WILL need help with this

So that's where I am so far.  The parts list is growing.  In addition to the previously gearbox repair I need to find or make these parts:

• body -have hull, and left side pod.  Have a source to mold left side pod.  Need nose
• CV joints- have about 15 axle shafts and no CV joints. source identified, about $60 each plus boots
• rear sway bar and mounts
• gearbox mounts - top and left side
• shifter cable bracket-most/later cars used hewland gearbox with shifter on top, ricardo shifter is on bottom
• wings - can run without for a while and unless I go to spec series (unlikely, who's?) Mostly for track days and I think SCCA BM just limits area so I'm not tied to originals

In GRM I've seen that Bertil Roos is taking over these cars.  If anybody has contacts there, the parts pallets I purchased at the auction contained some boxes of  new production parts for the cars in quantities that I can never use.   I'm interested in trading....

In reply to closer2thecone :

Very cool!

Awesome!! i was wondering what was going to happen to those cars

I'm glad one of those open wheel cars made it into the hands of a forum member. 

However, am I the only one disappointed in the lack of a peanut butter livery? 

My daughter and wife agreed that since we bought two chassis they would be call them ken and barbie, or maybe barbie and skipper.  Was skipper Barbie's little sister or just a younger friend?

All I know is Barbie was high maintenance, and Ken was a Street Fighter character that got beat on a lot. 

I didn't know there was a Skipper, but cars have a way of living up to their nicknames, and those tranny's look expensive. 

I wish i had been closer to buy some of that stuff.  Good luck it looks like you have an excellent start 

I just called Ricardo Corporate in Chicago and Detroit at almost 9am central time.  Got stuck in automated telephone hell during both calls.  Finally left a message in Detroit telling them I bought a racecar with one of their transmissions asking where I could find technical support and parts for it.  I'm not confident that they will respond.  We'll see.

Wow, it's been three months since I've posted.  I've had some family health issues but all of that is past news now and I'm moving forward again .

I did get a response from Ricardo.  Essentially they said, yes they made the gearbox, they don't support it any longer and try Hewland, they have a small office in Charlotte.   So they were no help.

During the auction I bought a couple pallets of open wheel parts.  Included in my lots were some parts to fabricate new cars.  I found boxes of brand new throttle stops, head rests, alternator brackets, engine/trans separator plates.  Not just a couple of each, I think I have 70 throttle stops.   I also have several batches of used parts.  For example, I have 20 axle shafts.  I don't have any CV joints but I do have 20 axle shafts.  I think I have about 5 exhaust headers and associated mufflers and pipes.  I reached out several times to Bertil Roos to see if they had any interest.  I even emailed them an inventory with pictures of the items and their part numbers.  Ny hope was they might want to trade some parts.  I still need some body panels, a rear sway bar and an ecu.  If you know anybody there that might be able to put a deal together please pass this info on to them.

I've been looking at DIY autotune for a new ECU.  It would be a great exercise to build and tune my own ecu but the quote for what I needed was still close to $900.  I'm still fo the opinion that I just need a new MOPAR ECU with the right tune.  I'm assuming that a tune may still reside in the ecu I have.  I think I just need somebody with the expertise to tell me which box I need and to move the tune from the old to the new box.  I will look at the old box and try to find a replacement.  I will try to make a couple calls today to see what I can find out.

As I mentioned earlier, I need some fiberglass body panels so I did what you do when you are looking for something.   I typed "fiberglass race car body" into google and damn if I didn't see a picture of the Formula Barbe car.  A quick l click on Fiberglass Sales .com and I had some good news.  Yes, they still have tooling to make the body.  Yes, they would make me a body.  Now for the not so good news, the tooling was in Costa Rica and I would have to contact Arnoldo for a quote.  I corresponded with him this week and he promised me a quote with shipping early next week after he return home from his travel.

So what engine did these use exactly? I see mention of a Mopar ECU, so is it a Chrysler 2.2L or 2.4L?

So if the ECU is firing one injector properly, it's getting the information it needs. Sounds like three of your cylinders are only getting a prime shot, which is an odd failure mode. I'd crack open the ECU case and look for damaged electronical bits. They're the crispy ones.

Four wires is normal for an OBD-II port IIRC - power, ground, the two CAN wires. That's based on newer stuff, I'm pretty sure there are some variations on older cars such as the single data wire on some GM cars.

Ah, so cool! I did the 3 day schools at Laguna Seca and Sebring in one of these; I've wanted a formula car ever since.

Some day!

The engine is a 2.0 l SOHC Dodge Neon engine, based on the crank sensor location I believe it's a 2002.  It's been slightly modified.  The IAV has been removed and blocked off.  A cone air filter is installed directly on throttle body.  An exhaust header has been added but the Oxygen sensor has been removed.

I have four wires to the OBDII connector but they are not in any of the standard locations, just all grouped together on PINs 4, 5, 6, and 7.  I tried connecting my code reader and it couldn't find power.

I believe I bought one of those engines recently. Let me know if you have a need for any of the lubrication stuff (remote filter setup, sump, etc). I don't think I will be able to use that in my class but I need to check the rule book. 

Very Very cool, can I aks what this lot of parts cost? I would love to have an open wheel car like that!

In reply to enginenerd :

I have enough of the lubrication stuff to build a spare engine except for the pan.  When the engine that was in the car came apart it destroyed the pan/sump so I could use one of those.  I still have the head from the blown engine, the cam wouldn't spin so I suspect it has a few bent valves if you need any other parts from it.  I also have the intake and several headers and exhaust systems (only for open wheel car though) for the engine.

In reply to java230 :

So far it has lured me in with a low entry price but I expect the need to spend much more than I anticipated.  I bought two chassis , one a roller with blown engine the other with wrecked rear (just needs rear  control arms and chassis straightened).  Both pretty much need full fiberglass.  I also bought two pallets of parts.  With auction fees I'm at about $1500.  I also bought the gearbox at auction, with fees it was close to $2k and it needs major servicing.   Even so I'm only in $3500 but before I drive it in anger at a minimum, it will need 4 tires, new seat belts, full fiberglass body, the ECU, new brake pads, new brake lines (all braided stainless, no hard lines), new fuel lines, new coolant hoses,and a new battery.  The big unknown cost is the gearbox, it could be junk.  

In reply to closer2thecone :

Thanks for sharing! Not bad at all IMO, any "project" chassis is going to need all the little stuff anyway. 

I'm still researching the ecu.  I stopped at a local ecu repair/replace shop and although they just copy new programs to blank OBD II ecu's, the owner  was able to identify my box as a 1995 OBD I.  This explains the wrong wire locations in the OBD II connector.  I have found a reman ecu at rock auto for about $140 so I just need the tune that will run my engine extracted from the old box and put in the new.  I thought finding the ecu would be the difficult part.  It seems that nobody supports the OBD I stuff anymore as it is going on 20 years old.  

If you know anybody that can copy and paste a tune from and into a 1995 Dodge OBD I ecu please let me know.

Still no word from Arnoldo about the fiberglass.  Next week I will send him a reminder that he promised me a quote.

Syked ecu tuning if they still exist were the go to for obd1 neon ecu programs

Crackers said:

All I know is Barbie was high maintenance, and Ken was a Street Fighter character that got beat on a lot. 

I didn't know there was a Skipper, but cars have a way of living up to their nicknames, and those tranny's look expensive. 

Skipper had a much maligned teen pregnancy some time in the 80s, but they don't talk about that. 

closer2thecone said:

I'm still researching the ecu.  I stopped at a local ecu repair/replace shop and although they just copy new programs to blank OBD II ecu's, the owner  was able to identify my box as a 1995 OBD I.  This explains the wrong wire locations in the OBD II connector.  I have found a reman ecu at rock auto for about $140 so I just need the tune that will run my engine extracted from the old box and put in the new.  I thought finding the ecu would be the difficult part.  It seems that nobody supports the OBD I stuff anymore as it is going on 20 years old.  

 

If you know anybody that can copy and paste a tune from and into a 1995 Dodge OBD I ecu please let me know.

 

Still no word from Arnoldo about the fiberglass.  Next week I will send him a reminder that he promised me a quote.

There's a group on facebook, Guild of EFI Tuners, I have seen guys on there that could still flash you a new EEPROM chip if you needed it, I'm sure someone there can do what you need. 

Dusterbd13 said:

Syked ecu tuning if they still exist were the go to for obd1 neon ecu programs

I had/have a few Syked ecus, none of the work quite right. 

I would recommend doing a 97+ Harness and a handheld tuner. 

After a couple weeks of failing to find anybody who would attempt to copy the program from the old ecu and flash it into a new one I'm starting to lean towards the mega squirt 3.  It costs a bit more than copying the original but it will provide a bit more control and the ability to actually communicate with it via the OBDII connector.  I will probably learn something in the process but it will take some time.  With a new reflashed ecu it should be plug it in and fire it up but building my own controller and programing it to run the engine will be tedious.  I will consider an of the shelf OEM unit that will control the neon engine and is easily programmable to run stand alone in the race car chassis via HP tuners or similar.  This would take the build part away and just leave me with programming/tuning.

I finally got a quote from the fiberglass folks in Costa Rica.  I had a number in my head that I thought would be more than I wanted to spend yet plenty to buy a couple pieces of fiberglass.  It's basically just panels, no structure at all.  Using numbers for fiberglass front ends for muscle cars and comparing square footage I figured $1800 was expensive, I can't see it costing more than $750 to ship.    The quote came in at $3715 delivered to Cary, NC.

I have a main body, a left side pod and both right and left kick panels.  I have a friend with a right side pod that I can make a mold from.  To make my own, I would need to sculpt my own nose cone and mold it or I would have to borrow one to mold.  Looking at pictures, the shape of the nose looks fairly easy to make.  Probably easier to draw in 3d software than it is to sculpt in space.  Does anybody have a nose cone I can borrow?