I just bought parts, albeit really boring ones, for this truck. Excited? Not exactly...
I just bought parts, albeit really boring ones, for this truck. Excited? Not exactly...
Well I'M excited. Progress is progress.
I am also excited
Hey, I have a need. Is there someone nearby who can loan me an accurate bumpsteer measuring system? I have all of the ideas I need now to get the bumpsteer right, but it would be far better to have a better measuring system than "lay the phone on the tire and jack the wheel up and down" when I weld it in.
Two pieces of plywood hinged with each other work fine.
One board lays on the ground, one board lays flat against the wheel.
As you move the wheel up and down, you will see that it toes in or out. Doesn't matter how much it ~is~, you want ~none~.
I was going to make a suggestion, then realized most people don't have caster/camber gauges.
tuna55 wrote: but it would be far better to have a better measuring system than "lay the phone on the tire and jack the wheel up and down" when I weld it in.
The entire suspension and steering system in the Wartburg was set up via iPhone....go for it ;)
In reply to JThw8:
Yeah, for bump steer all you really need is a Lazer pointer and a known vertical reference to point it at.
Tape/clamp etc the pointer to the wheel/hub.
Cool, I'll order the sleeves and get to work then.
I wish to flip my tie rod to the bottom of the spindle.
I see several kids out there which are a weld-in sleeve. All of these are listed by application, and none match ours as most are for Jeep guys.
I see listings like "Dana 30 knuckle" or "fits TJ"
I measured my outer tie rod at a .788" long taper, starting at .620" and ending at .500". I see nothing matching that on the only chart of dimensions I found.
http://www.partsmike.com/index.php/content/4x4-support
Am I missing something? Does someone offer such a sleeve which will fit? I do not want to run studs and/or heim joints here.
Wouldn't it be prudent to consider relocating the steering box/idler arm in the interest of not modifying potential crash repair items?
Also, I'm pretty sure those spindles are cast iron and don't respond well to welding.
In reply to Crackers:
So you have a couple of points here worth discussion.
The spindles are indeed cast ductile iron. My understanding is that the weld is merely to hold the sleeve in the hole drilled in the spindle, so the low quality and reduced ductility of the weld will not be critical. However, some styles are knurled and intended to be press fit into the spindle. That would also work fine, although they would not give me any adjustment. Really since the sleeves have a flange and the tie rod is bolted in, there is no credible scenario of the tie rod coming out, just causing a loose fit if things start moving, so the failure mode is gentle and can be remedied.
That said, one other approach is to upsize the tie rod, many of the bigger trucks use a taper where the minor diameter is larger than my major diameter, so it can be done by only removing material, not adding it. The big issues with this are: 1, the 11/16-18 thread of my current tie rod end (most others seem to be 7/8 or 1), and 2, the fact that the result will be non adjustable. It is unlikely that the tie rod flip will be exactly where I want it, while the weld-in sleeve gives me a few hundredths of potential adjustment before welding.
The steering box and idler arm are mounted directly to the frame. To move them, I would need to create a doubler plate with the mounting pattern and shuffle them around. This would also require that the mounting patterns would move the same amount for the box and for the arm. I deemed this to be impractically difficult to set up, additionally, a significant portion of both bolt patterns would hang below the frame and be awkward and not very strong.
I believe that welding a sleeve is going to work better overall than setting up a heim joint, simply because of the longevity of those in something as dirty and hot as an outer tie rod, additionally there is the challenge of attaching said joint to the spindle in a robust way, but that really is the only option. I can't put this back on top and drive it, the bump steer is just too severe.
Thoughts?
If you're welding cast, keep the heat minimal or preheat the part in the oven before welding. Sounds like you should be able to do the former; a sleeve shouldn't need a heck of a lot of weld to keep it where it needs to be.
If it weren't for the thread difference, I think I'd lean toward reaming for a larger tie rod end.
The steering box/idler are all forward of the suspension pickups aren't they?
I'd section the frame, drop it down until stuff lines up, (you should be able to clamp everything in place to test pretty easy) then weld in place and make some gussets/filler plates. It would still be plenty strong and never require fabrication work again.
I'm always concerned about my ability to find custom parts/kits later down the line. If at all possible I try to keep stuff off the shelf OEM. (Although I'm not terribly concerned about which OEM, lol) This way the only situation you would really have to do custom work again is if the frame gets FUBAR in which case the truck would probably be a total loss anyway. Only major snag I can think of is the drag link possibly interfering with the front of the cross member as I know a lot of the GM frames of this vintage had skid plates built into them to protect the steering. But in for a penny, in for a pound, right?! 
The metallurgy behind is cast iron is weird and tricky. I know controlled heating and cooling are paramount to maintaining structural integrity. If it's cycled incorrectly it becomes brittle and cracks, and that scares the crap out of me when thinking about cast spindles.
Perhaps another route altogether. 70-72 Chevelle spindles (and many other GM models that I'm not 100% about ATM) were made with a bolt on link for the steering. Those links are commonly custom made to resolve steering issues. Although that may prove to be overly involved as well as cost prohibitive.
In reply to Crackers:
Meaning I have to re-section the frame to fit the radiator, the bumper, the hood latch, etc? No thanks!
And no, I'm not swapping spindles.
JohnInKansas wrote: If you're welding cast, keep the heat minimal or preheat the part in the oven before welding. Sounds like you should be able to do the former; a sleeve shouldn't need a heck of a lot of weld to keep it where it needs to be. If it weren't for the thread difference, I think I'd lean toward reaming for a larger tie rod end.
Reamers are actually expensive and difficult to get right, but I could be persuaded if there was some readily available double-threaded sleeve. Otherwise I'm reaming everything everywhere to make it all work out, and making a mess.
I wouldn't cut the whole frame horn off, just cut the section with the mounting holes for the aforementioned parts. IOW I'd leave the top flat section of the frame alone so you don't have to mess with the stuff you mentioned above.
Crackers wrote: I wouldn't cut the whole frame horn off, just cut the section with the mounting holes for the aforementioned parts. IOW I'd leave the top flat section of the frame alone so you don't have to mess with the stuff you mentioned above.
I spoke incorrectly before, the idler arm and steering box would need to go up, not down.
No. Just no.
What, exactly is the issue? I'm confused.
Why don't the stock parts work?
wvumtnbkr wrote: What, exactly is the issue? I'm confused. Why don't the stock parts work?
It had lots of bump steer stock.
Cutting springs made it worse near ride height, but really nothing else changed very much which would affect bumpsteer.
I need to mount the tie rod on the bottom of the spindle to be more gooder.
Was this noticeable during driving?
In reply to SkinnyG:
It was a long time ago.
Right now if you set toe during anything other than ride height, it's so bad that you can't push the truck by hand.
This sounds like one of those "If I only had a lathe" moments.
I would think you'd want to braze the sleeve in, or weld it with nickel rod.
But if you don't notice it during ~driving~, you might just be making more work for yourself. Or introducing ~other~ issues with the changes you are making. Is this truck just a driver for you? Or do you cool-plans/ulterior-motive for it?
(I was offered a free black '72 C10 recently. Needs ALL the rust patch panels, but I'm more in love with a '64-66, so I passed on it).
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