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mke
mke HalfDork
9/12/19 9:12 p.m.

Thanks!

Here's one 1 the car.  The ce ther caps fit nice which is great.  There is no rear on the car because they used the front bore so it doesn't fit, I'll need to correct that.

I'm a little nervous about the stem hole, the spot face is smaller than I spec'd....it might be fine though

 

mke
mke HalfDork
9/12/19 9:14 p.m.

It was a big parts day.  The new gapless ring set arrived as did the trans shaft adapter for the dyno . .it a bit tight but it seems to fit

 

Syscrush
Syscrush New Reader
9/13/19 10:02 a.m.
java230 said:

Oh my, those are perfect... 

Perfect for someone who doesn't need a street-legal wheel. I don't mean this as naysaying, but IMO it definitely bears repeating. The price difference between these sick custom wheels and what you'd buy elsewhere would be largely driven by the lack of the costs for testing, registering, and marking the wheels for DOT, CE, TUV, or whatever other street-legal compliance.

The design looks amazing and I'm glad to see the result - but the choice of how and when to use such a wheel carries with it some nontrivial safety and liability consequences.

Syscrush
Syscrush New Reader
9/13/19 11:55 a.m.
mke said:

Thanks!

There is no rear on the car because they used the front bore so it doesn't fit, I'll need to correct that.

[snip...]

I'm a little nervous about the stem hole, the spot face is smaller than I spec'd....it might be fine though

They look amazing, but there were 2 deviations from the drawings you sent? Hopefully they got the most important stuff correct.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
9/13/19 1:40 p.m.
Syscrush said:
java230 said:

Oh my, those are perfect... 

Perfect for someone who doesn't need a street-legal wheel. I don't mean this as naysaying, but IMO it definitely bears repeating. The price difference between these sick custom wheels and what you'd buy elsewhere would be largely driven by the lack of the costs for testing, registering, and marking the wheels for DOT, CE, TUV, or whatever other street-legal compliance.

The design looks amazing and I'm glad to see the result - but the choice of how and when to use such a wheel carries with it some nontrivial safety and liability consequences.

Wheel testing rig build time?


But seriously, the design looks quite beefy, and since they were CNC'd from a billet they should be close to a forged wheel in strength, right?

unevolved
unevolved SuperDork
9/13/19 2:30 p.m.

Guess it depends on the material and the process.  Any idea what material was used for the wheels besides "aluminum"?

mke
mke HalfDork
9/13/19 3:42 p.m.

The wheels are 6061-T6 forgings.    They forge and heat treat the blank in a diameter and width but with a solid center so that portion of the design can be changed as desired so 1 forging can make many different looking wheels, but the rim profile needs can't really change, there is only finish cut metal in that area.  

The fear many had with my composite plan was the wheels could explode....cause that is what composites do.  A forged wheel will flex or bend.  So the design might not have all the camber control it could have resulting in lower skidpad numbers or could get bent over a pot hole sooner than it should, but its not going to explode....pretty low risk I think.

The biggest concern is they bugger the bead dimensions so the tire could unseat, I'll check that tonight or tomorrow before I mount the tires....so far I'm really happy though....the silver color is too bright silver, ferrari uses a greyer color, that's my biggest complaint so far.

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 Dork
9/13/19 9:42 p.m.

In reply to mke :

A little pad dust will fix the color, but that means you have to drive itcheeky

mke
mke HalfDork
9/14/19 6:31 a.m.
TurnerX19 said:

In reply to mke :

A little pad dust will fix the color, but that means you have to drive itcheeky

That's just crazy talk! 

If I start driving it and racing it and such there won't be any money left to buy cool racing stuff for it....its AMAZING how much cool racing stuff you can afford when you don't break any of it actually racing.  25 years ago when I was racing motorcycles and making about $12/hr as a machinist I figured it was $800 anytime the bike left the shop,.  Today I figure skipping just 1 race weekend paid for my dyno.....I'm still angry a with myself for ever starting the engine, now I have to fix  crying

 

Seriously though, I'm hoping driving will finally happen in the spring.  Its fall now so I have plenty of time to get things sorted and back together for spring.   want to do some work on the suspension but I'm not sure I'll have time or budget for that.....but it works as is so that's a want not a need.  Engine sorted is a need so I'll keep at that.

 

 

Jack2052
Jack2052 New Reader
9/14/19 8:48 a.m.

In reply to mke :

What a beautiful engine bay.  Wish you all the luck with this build.  I remember someone doing this decades ago when the cars were still new.

 

mke
mke HalfDork
9/14/19 5:06 p.m.
Jack2052 said:

In reply to mke :

What a beautiful engine bay.  Wish you all the luck with this build.  I remember someone doing this decades ago when the cars were still new.

 

Yes, there was an article in one of the car magazines...I have a copy somewhere.  I remember reading in my air force barracks room and thinking it was pretty cool but seemed nuts.  The guy, goldsmith iirc, was also an engineer and put together and instruction book and 3 or 4 other basically followed that path to running v12 308s. 

 

I have a copy of those instructions.....and for a few things very similarly, and some not so similar like I did a dry sump conversion which let me set to engine 3in forward and 2in down compared to that setup....my engine is more centered right to left also.  The big difference of course is he used a 365 that was basically stock and maybe 400hp after he did new cams which has basically the only engine mod.

mke
mke HalfDork
9/14/19 5:11 p.m.

Fixed the rear wheel hub bore and they fit nicely now.  Took about 45 minutes,  a bout 15-20 was the extra care not to scratch anything.

 

mke
mke HalfDork
9/14/19 5:20 p.m.

I also measured to conform that I put the bolt holes at a depth that works with an available bolt length...they seem right so I ordered the bolts...which I could only find from a place in the UK for 11GBP each....$351 with shipping...:(

But they are high quality and look like the factory bolts so......had to spend about 20 minutes on the phone with the CC companies, car parts overseas sets off all their alarms but they are ordered.

mke
mke HalfDork
9/14/19 5:32 p.m.

Last up for the day was to install valve stems and mount tires....I failed here.  The vendor made a couple design changes the added up to a valve stem issue.  I had spec'd 24mm counter bore inside and out and the inner lip between the spokes was drawn smooth.  They did the C'bore 19mm inside the tire side which is ok, and 15mm on the spoke side which is 9k for a rubber stem but the metal stems all want 18mm or more.  Then they added a step to hide any machining misalignment front to back when they flip it, fine idea but it runs across the c'bore so it can't really be done with a simple die grinding, I need to but a $100 tool and recut, neatly so I can fix the paint.  Tool ordered and wheels sitting....hard to see in the pic but...I thought maybe I could just cut the stem seat to 15mm, but the gasket is in a 15 pocket so thats out.

docwyte
docwyte UltraDork
9/14/19 5:34 p.m.

I'm surprised you didn't machine out your own lug bolts.

mke
mke HalfDork
9/14/19 5:50 p.m.
docwyte said:

I'm surprised you didn't machine out your own lug bolts.

Last wheels I did make spacers and studs...kind of a pain in the butt and I want to get it looking more stock than the lug nuts the go on the studs

MechWrench
MechWrench New Reader
9/16/19 9:06 a.m.

In reply to mke :

Wheels are incredible!

mke
mke HalfDork
9/17/19 2:23 p.m.
Syscrush said:

Perfect for someone who doesn't need a street-legal wheel. I don't mean this as naysaying, but IMO it definitely bears repeating. The price difference between these sick custom wheels and what you'd buy elsewhere would be largely driven by the lack of the costs for testing, registering, and marking the wheels for DOT, CE, TUV, or whatever other street-legal compliance.

The design looks amazing and I'm glad to see the result - but the choice of how and when to use such a wheel carries with it some nontrivial safety and liability consequences.

I did a little digging over the past few days and found an awful lot of  wheels including so pretty expensive and seemingly higher end stuff that say things like "For OFF road use only" , "by fitting to your vehicle you assume all liability" or my favorite "Show wheels for display use" and then go on to say "as seen on overhaulin, gas monkey, ....."  

I'd honestly never really paid much attention but there are clearly a whole lot of non-DOT wheels out in the world.....and its not like my car actually drives frown

Syscrush
Syscrush New Reader
9/17/19 3:01 p.m.
mke said:

I did a little digging over the past few days and found an awful lot of  wheels including so pretty expensive and seemingly higher end stuff that say things like "For OFF road use only" , "by fitting to your vehicle you assume all liability" or my favorite "Show wheels for display use" and then go on to say "as seen on overhaulin, gas monkey, ....."  

I'd honestly never really paid much attention but there are clearly a whole lot of non-DOT wheels out in the world.....and its not like my car actually drives frown

That is really interesting, and more than a little bit surprising.

To be clear, I'm not accusing you of making an uninformed decision, but I like to point this out because this thread is wildly popular and I think that my fellow fans are well-advised to consider all of the implications of going with a wheel that's not certified for road use. IMO the likelihood of failure is probably vanishingly small. However, in the event of an at-fault collision, any insurance adjuster who's paying attention is going to see those wheels and tear up your policy. I'm not a lawyer, but I would expect this even if there was no evidence that the wheels had anything to do with the cause of the collision. The legal risk is a way bigger concern for me personally than the physical risk of a failure as there can be so much at stake.

The wheels look sick and I hope that they do what you need them to do!

mke
mke HalfDork
9/17/19 3:50 p.m.

In reply to Syscrush :

Yeah...where the line is exactly on modified and road use.  I think I found the right PA rules....no mention of DOT certification, mostly just "use good tries you dumbass" stuff.  Wheel spacers over 1/4" are a problem here in it looks like (my front spacers to make the 550 wheels work were an inch),  but the wording is odd and says "to increase wheel track" kind of opens the door to to reading it as if the track remains stock then spacers are ok?  

There is a general catch-all I remember seeing that talks about things like suspension or chassis or brake mod or engine swaps requiring the issue of a custom built VIN and special enhanced inspection.....not sure how many people follow that but to you're point it is a liability risk anytime there is any equipment violation.

 

§ 175.65. Tires and wheels.

(a) Condition of tires and wheels. Tires and wheels shall be in safe operating condition as described in § 175.80 (relating to inspection procedure).

(b) Tire standards. A vehicle specified under this subchapter shall have tires manufactured in conformance with standards in Chapter 159 (relating to new pneumatic tires). See 75 Pa.C.S. § 4525 (relating to tire equipment and traction surfaces). Tires with equivalent metric size designations may be used.

(c) Radial ply tires. A radial ply tire may not be used on the same axle with a bias or belted tire.

(d) Different types of tires. Tires of different types, such as one snow tire and one regular tire or bias, belted or radial tire, may not be used on the same axle except in an emergency.

(e) Nonpneumatic tires. A passenger car or light truck operated on highway may not be equipped with nonpneumatic tires except an antique vehicle with nonpneumatic tires if originally equipped by the manufacturer.

(f) Ice grips or studs. A tire may not be equipped with ice grips or tire studs or wear-resisting material which have projections exceeding 2/32 inch beyond the tread of the traction surface of the tire.

(g) Tires and rims. The axles of a vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with the number and type of tires and rims with a load rating equal to or higher than those offered by the manufacturer.

(h) Spacers. Spacers or similar devices thicker than 1/4 inch may not be installed to increase wheel track.

mke
mke HalfDork
9/17/19 7:28 p.m.

The bellhousing for the dyno came and fits. Yay.

mke
mke HalfDork
9/17/19 7:37 p.m.

The cutter for the valve stems also came.  It's a reverse counter bore and kind of cool if you haven't seen one, it's designed so the shaft goes through the hole then the cutter installs on the back side.

So first get the wheel and right angle head to both fit and indicated in...head aligned with table travel and centered in the existing hole, and wheel indicated so the existing c'bore face is square....the cut and check... perfect.  3 more to cut and touch up the paint.

ShawnG
ShawnG PowerDork
9/17/19 7:39 p.m.

Posts like this should be on every forum so that when someone hears that I have a lathe and a mill, they will see the setup involved and understand why we charge accordingly for one-off parts.

mke
mke HalfDork
9/18/19 9:01 a.m.

In reply to ShawnG :

Yeah, stupid little things can take quite a lot of time to do well and you need the right tools.  That cutter was $100 but it cuts a 19mm c'bore with a 0.5mm corner radius leaving a neat 18mm flat, exactly what the stems require and does it on the side of the wheel I can't reach with any normal tooling so there is little choice.  

Setup and cut the 1st hole as just under an hour with finding everything after the move.  Then younger son wanted me to play soccer goalie for him and older son wanted me to show him how to design a skateboard park in CAD...night gone. Hopefully finish up tonight, I expect the other wheels to be about 15 minutes each.  Tomorrow I need to find paint that's close and just got notice the bolts will arrive.   Friday I'm off work so tires hop and hopefully on the car and car on the ground  for a proper look!

Syscrush
Syscrush New Reader
9/18/19 9:35 a.m.

I'd love to build a car like mke's, but I'm not qualified to fit the valve stems. laugh

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