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Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
1/17/19 8:04 a.m.

If we get nothing else from this build, let it be inspiration. 

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 8:04 a.m.

Lets see...well that just moved the problem....no winning happening here.....

fusion66
fusion66 New Reader
1/17/19 8:20 a.m.

A whole new level of berkeleying crazy...carry on.

Dammit
Dammit Reader
1/17/19 8:21 a.m.

Much amaze

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 8:22 a.m.

One thing I did notice, I can't find a good pic, with the trans staying put and the gear casing twisting the relationship of a sencond hole in the end of the trans changing meaning the flywheel will want to cut it off....which is not helpful.

 

By dumb luck I had a 360 engine passing through the shop as an acquittance had bought it on ebay and needed someone in the US to accept it them crate it for a trip to Oz....yeah all the parts didn't make it ....he didn't need them all anyway (thanks Dave!)  devil

It turned out the 360 flywheel uses a bolt on ring gear that is about 2" smaller OD that the 308 or 400  gear on the flywheel and just barely small enough to clear the oil tube.  It also turns out the ferrari ring gear teeth are indistignishable from chevy ring gear teeth. 

So, billet flywheel, 360 ring gear, chevy gear reduction starter. Plan!

 

...oh yeah and  t 7.25" tilton 3 disc carbon-carbon clutch becasue why not right?....and I already had it "left over" from the 600hp supercharged engine

 

 

 

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 8:29 a.m.

I did the flywheel from 4130 and phoned a freind to CNC most of it to save me a ton of time.  I had to finish up a bit manually because of the way I designed it.  The flywheel has the crank trigger teeth the ECU will need and weighs about 7.2lbs vs the stock 308 that is more like 17....and it clears the trans oil tube and saves me about 1" in over-all length.

AWSX1686
AWSX1686 GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
1/17/19 8:32 a.m.

This is amazing!

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 8:37 a.m.

Doesn't do any good to shorten the clutch setup and not shorten the bellhousing so...but it needs to fit both the engine and trans and the trans part is currently sawed off....best get that attached I guess.

 

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 8:46 a.m.

With that about right, it needs to bolt to the engine...so its going to need a flange.....and some way to keep oil in....and its not going ot need the manual clutch stuff....

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 8:59 a.m.

This was about test fit time to see if there was anything thing else.  

The flywheel and ring gear miss the frame....I forgot to mention that issue was why I didn't just move the oil tube on the trans, clear the tube means clear the frame. Check!

 The drop gear case clears the gas tank. Check!

The drop gear case clears the wheel with 1/2" to spare. Check!

(this is why I had the shorten the bellhousing as much as possible....because I certainly wasn't taking off the 10.5" wheels and going back to th stock 8" wheels)

Damper clears the fuel tank and wheel...Fail!  that will need attention but not too scary

 

2002maniac
2002maniac Dork
1/17/19 9:15 a.m.

Everyone should take a moment to upvote this thread. It needs to be in the hall of fame!

 

It is amazing what you've been able to accomplish with really very basic tools.  I like the improvised press brake.  I'm also an engineer (former machinist), but my crazy projects look like a crochet hobby compared to yours.

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 9:24 a.m.

This next piece needs a little explaining so it doesn't seem QUITE as stupid...

 

The drop gear case is not about 1 3/4" further from the trans than it was but the trans input shaft isn't any longer and can't really be lengthened, that's a problem.

Also the bell housing is shorter by just over an inch but the clutch input shaft isn't shorter and really can't be shortened, that's problem 2.

The way the conversions were done in the past is the engine was put ore to the left so the clutch shaft problem goes awy but the trans input shaft issue is worse.  They solved the input shaft issue by cutting the hub out of the input gear and welding in an extension and since its supported by a bearing in the gear case it works.

 

i have a 3rd problem too.  The simulator says the engine will make 500+ ftlb torque...that seems like winning not a problem but a little back ground.  I got the car stock  and very tired and about 6 weeks after I got it set itself on fire, not bad but it was down for a bit.  While I was waiting on the insurance stuff I decided to pull the engine which was leaking everywhere and regasket it, but everything I took something off I saw more stuff I didn't like, so it was a rebuild and being an 84 is was stupid low compression at  a claimed 8.6 that measure more like 8.4......so I did the logical thing and added a supercharger.  When the car rolled out at about 10psi and 360ish hp (it made 301rwhp) I noticed that while before I was shifting at 4500-500, now I was shifting at 3500ish...not on purpose but thats where it was for normal or brisk acceleration. 

That was so nice after a couple years I decided a bigger supercharger would be better, ands it was!  This si it was a screw type blower with a water/air intercooler built into the intake and made 24spi and 600-650hp and maybe 400-450ftlb torque.  With this engine I noticed I was now shifting at more like 2500 in normal driving and 1st gear was really only good for idling around a parking lot because I even looked at the accelerator the wheels and best acceleration was 2nd gear.

...and this engine will likely have more torque.

 

hmmmm.......... 

 

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 9:31 a.m.

The drop gears give about a 12% torque increase engine to trans....which is not helpful.  Reversing the gears would that a 12% torque reduction so a 24% change......I need to make a new clutch shaft so I could just put the trans gear sp[line on it.....and I need to extend the trans gear so I could just cut the spline instead of trying to weld like past conversions.....and its not real hard to move the idler gear......

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 9:33 a.m.

I need a clutch shaft that is shorter and mounts the trans gear.

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 9:40 a.m.

The clutch gear is smaller than the trans gear so I don't have quite as much real estate to work with as those who came before...I decide to again phone a friend and wire EDM a large spline inside the gear  and onto the outside of the extender, then use a ring nut to secure the gear.

  

Lof8
Lof8 GRM+ Memberand Dork
1/17/19 9:43 a.m.

This is certainly awesome engineering and fab work, but I'd be afraid to break one of these insanely custom $$ parts when it comes time to drive it!

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 9:54 a.m.

Now you might be asking ,

"Mark, why does the extender stick out so far?"

Well...500+ ftlb of torque applied to a cantilevered gear scares the bajesus out!  SO I decided to add an outer bearing.

 

BrianA
BrianA New Reader
1/17/19 10:02 a.m.

In reply to mke :

It is amazing that you find time to post here never mind actually work on your engine.

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 10:09 a.m.

I'll put this here but it came a little after...the trans oil fill plug ended up on the side after the rotation with about 1/4" clearance to the gas tank so no possible way to add oil to the trans.  I moved it.

ScottyB
ScottyB Reader
1/17/19 10:11 a.m.

i feel....so.....inadequate.

incredible work.  every time you hit an obstacle i just keep thinking, how in the world would anyone solve this in their garage?  when the sound clips roll in someday i'm going to actually pop a bag of popcorn just to properly take it all in.

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 10:21 a.m.

At this point I have something that seems like an engine, its bolts to the trans and fits in the car. so now its mostly more normal engine swap stuff.  I said it needed a dry sump, which means it needs a return pump.  I'm not a fan of belt driven pumps.  The 400 engine has a kind of odd setup with a chain driven oil pump and the water pump driven off the same chain.....and I have no issue with belt driven water pumps so the return pump (another borrowed F360 part) needs to replace the water pump.

 

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 10:27 a.m.

The pump was designed to be INSIDE the engine and has a relief valve that would stray oil on the ground and hit my wheel and I still need a shaft to drive it that fits the oil pump on 1 end and looks like the 400 water pump on the other

NickD
NickD UberDork
1/17/19 10:31 a.m.

What. The. berkeley. 

 

Madness. In a good way. I love the way you just slice and dice on genuine Ferrari metal

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
1/17/19 10:32 a.m.

This is stunning. surprise

Also goes to show what someone with a mill, a welder, time and a whole crap-ton of fabrication skill can do.

This is like Project Binky taken to the next level. 

mke
mke New Reader
1/17/19 10:33 a.m.

This is kind of funney in hindsight I guess but about the time I was installing the engine and making all the final connection I relize the pump was setup to run backwards the way I'd mounted it and was pretty much useless  Oops blush

 

that will need to change......

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