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Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
10/9/19 10:48 p.m.

Oh, you’re that guy! ;) One of these days, I’m gonna use the push bar to move an unattended minivan parked in front of a diesel pump...

My trip today was very different than the one to Denver. All the stops in the Denver trip are ones we were going to make - even the shopping one is a stop we would have made anyhow.  It was a pleasure trip with my wife, and there was no prize in pulling up to the house hangry and tired. On the trip today, about the only “efficiency” improvement you could have made would have been to shave off the time it took me to eat a BLT that I had with me. I had to stop to refuel anyhow, and my refuel/lunch time was the same as if I was running the EV. That was the point, todays trip would not have taken any longer with the Tesla or any less time with the M5. 

Cotton
Cotton PowerDork
10/9/19 10:58 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

How did I know that was coming? I can be in and out by the time my truck is done fueling.  I definitely don't block pumps while I mosey around the station looking for funions.

I think that's great that today's trip was no  worse from a time perspective than it would have been in the M5.  That's one of the reasons I'm following along....to see how the charging is evolving, progressing, etc is interesting even if it isn't something I'm 100% ready for yet.

onemanarmy
onemanarmy Reader
10/10/19 7:14 a.m.

Is there any worry about parts and service from Tesla?  Especially after a wreck.   There are not so nice rumors out there about cars sitting for months on end.

What about the possibility of the car being 'bricked' due to a failed update, any type of hacking of the system,  and/or Tesla choosing not to update your system...you know...to push you into a new car or full software suite?   Like the phone makers do?   Any worry that the car wants/has to be 'connected'?

A regular ICE vehicle may break down, but hardly every becomes bricked and doesn't have to rely on connectivity just to move.

I'm a fan of the electric cars, especially for commuting, but I'd take one that was just a car with an electric motor and accelerator pedal.   I don't need all that data, all the easter eggs, adaptive this and that, and needing to be connected to the internet.  Just let me drive.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
10/10/19 9:10 a.m.

I’m trying to keep this about actual experiences. If I break the car and have to wait for months for parts, then I’ll report it. Until that happens, I won’t worry. There’s so much garbage and rumors out there around Tesla that I’m not paying much attention. I’m really not worried about bricking or software obsolescence - I have a laptop that’s 7 years old and functioning beautifully, and that’s about 100 years old on computer terms :)

The car works without connectivity. I’ve posted my opinions before about cars being over-integrated with phones, and if/when the Tesla app stops working I can use the RFID cards to get in and operate it. If it’s offline, the voice system and nav and streaming music won’t work, but none of these are crucial to the car’s operation. 

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE HalfDork
10/10/19 11:28 a.m.
onemanarmy said:

Is there any worry about parts and service from Tesla?  Especially after a wreck.   There are not so nice rumors out there about cars sitting for months on end.

What about the possibility of the car being 'bricked' due to a failed update, any type of hacking of the system,  and/or Tesla choosing not to update your system...you know...to push you into a new car or full software suite?   Like the phone makers do?   Any worry that the car wants/has to be 'connected'?

Apple lost that case, so if Tesla did attempt that and it was proven you already have precedence.

There's a lot of stories about people not getting their parts and it's hard to get a good baseline 'feel' for how good or bad it is. Right now, I think owning a Model 3 is similar to owning a Porsche and being near a dealership in terms of availability, in that many things can be easily repaired and fixed but there's a gulf of specific engine and suspension parts that have to be shipped from Stuttgart.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
10/10/19 4:26 p.m.

Another thing to consider about replacement parts - if there is a sale to be made, the aftermarket will likely fill it.  It will just take time to reach a certain number of cars on the road for the endeavor to be profitable.

dj06482
dj06482 UltraDork
10/10/19 7:07 p.m.

I’m enjoying this thread - I’d love to buy an EV, but am at least a few years out from being able to afford one. So I’m happy to live vicariously through your experience. I appreciate the real-world scenarios and your balanced reporting. Keep the updates coming!

Agent98
Agent98 Reader
10/10/19 9:32 p.m.

Again kudos to Keith we all have pent up questions....I wonder who will hot rod the first gen1 Leaf....seems the 24 kwh oem battery pack is not easily upgradeable. Looking at the scrounger end of the EV market....

759NRNG
759NRNG UltraDork
10/11/19 7:49 a.m.

KT sorry i've not read any of this but............just read a jalopnik article on a Jonathon Ward (ICON) 49 merc EV using  tesla guts .....SWEET.....so my apologies I'm off to the first page

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE HalfDork
10/11/19 10:49 a.m.

Hey Kieth, I got a question on the heat in the Model 3 for you- specifically, how good is it? I know for efficiency the car combines heated seats and steering wheel with SOME radiant heat from cooling the battery/motor/controller in an internal heater core, but how much? Do the vents get as warm as a normal car?

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
10/11/19 11:02 a.m.

I have not had the opportunity to really test that yet because it hasn't been all that cold. The heated seats work very well - Janel has helped herself to those a few times - and when we were on the way back from Denver the outside temp was in the 40s and we never noticed inside the car. The ability to pre-warm both the seats and the interior does mean that the ability to rapidly warm up the interior isn't as important as it might otherwise be, and the seats come online a lot faster than a cold ICE starts to blow warm air. 

In order to find out what maximum heating ability feels like, I'll have to treat the car more like an ICE. Don't pre-warm the interior, park it outside so it fully cold soaks and then turn the heater on full blast when I get in to see how hot the air coming out of the vents get. But that's a little artificial. If I can pre-warm it, why wouldn't I?

The car does have five heated seats because it's a lot more efficient to warm meat than air. Seems a little excessive to have one in the middle in the back but nobody wants to hear that poor sucker whining I guess :)

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy UltimaDork
10/11/19 3:02 p.m.
Ian F said:

Another thing to consider about replacement parts - if there is a sale to be made, the aftermarket will likely fill it.  It will just take time to reach a certain number of cars on the road for the endeavor to be profitable.

I cant help but think a Tesla might be like a printer and want to scoff at and reject anything you put in it that isn't manufacturer approved. I'd also be a lot more concerned trying to put an aftermarket Flux Capacitor into an electric car than I would be about using the non-OEM ignition coil in a regular car. 

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy UltimaDork
10/11/19 3:06 p.m.

Thanks for posting this, Keith.

My wife and I were talking about EVs and for her style of driving (lots and lots of short trips followed by a return to the house) it really makes sense for us to go electric in the future. The longest trip she makes with any regularity is about 220 miles round trip, and we've got an ICE vehicle she can use for that if she gets worried.

Reading about how one is treating you in real life is making the argument even more persuasive. 

One thing I wonder about, though- we've got no rway to get a car into the garage, so charging would have to be done while the car is outside in whatever weather happens to be going on at the time. That's still a concern with me- high voltage and water just don't ever go together in my mind, and we'd need 30 feet or so of cabling to go from an outlet to the parking area.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
10/11/19 3:10 p.m.

The charger that comes with the car has a 25’ cable, I believe. It’s also rated for outdoor use. It must be a solved problem, all those Superchargers are outside. The terminals on the car-side plug are well insulated and recessed. 

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
10/11/19 3:12 p.m.
Brett_Murphy said:
Ian F said:

Another thing to consider about replacement parts - if there is a sale to be made, the aftermarket will likely fill it.  It will just take time to reach a certain number of cars on the road for the endeavor to be profitable.

I cant help but think a Tesla might be like a printer and want to scoff at and reject anything you put in it that isn't manufacturer approved. I'd also be a lot more concerned trying to put an aftermarket Flux Capacitor into an electric car than I would be about using the non-OEM ignition coil in a regular car. 

Much like the current aftermarket parts supply, it'll depend on the specific part, how expensive it is to make, how often it needs to be replaced, and the potential profit margin.  So far, it seems the actual drivetrain parts in a Tesla are fairly robust with a low failure rate.  But things like fenders and doors and chassis parts subject to accident damage and generally able to be slotted into existing production facilities may be fair game.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
10/11/19 3:21 p.m.
Brett_Murphy said:

Thanks for posting this, Keith.

My wife and I were talking about EVs and for her style of driving (lots and lots of short trips followed by a return to the house) it really makes sense for us to go electric in the future. The longest trip she makes with any regularity is about 220 miles round trip, and we've got an ICE vehicle she can use for that if she gets worried.

Reading about how one is treating you in real life is making the argument even more persuasive. 

One thing I wonder about, though- we've got no rway to get a car into the garage, so charging would have to be done while the car is outside in whatever weather happens to be going on at the time. That's still a concern with me- high voltage and water just don't ever go together in my mind, and we'd need 30 feet or so of cabling to go from an outlet to the parking area.

I charged my 1st gen Leaf outside for two years. It never saw the inside of the garage.

dps214
dps214 Reader
10/11/19 4:05 p.m.
Brett_Murphy said:
Ian F said:

Another thing to consider about replacement parts - if there is a sale to be made, the aftermarket will likely fill it.  It will just take time to reach a certain number of cars on the road for the endeavor to be profitable.

I cant help but think a Tesla might be like a printer and want to scoff at and reject anything you put in it that isn't manufacturer approved. I'd also be a lot more concerned trying to put an aftermarket Flux Capacitor into an electric car than I would be about using the non-OEM ignition coil in a regular car. 

That capability exists in any electronic/CANBUS connected parts in any modern vehicle. Granted if there's any manufacturer I'd expect to play that game to try to keep you from touching anything it'd be tesla. But it's not a concept unique to EVs. And there really aren't any more parts that could apply to in one either. I doubt anyone is going to be replacing individual high voltage components themselves in their home garage, and once you remove those parts from the equation it's basically all the same parts an ICE car has.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
10/15/19 7:11 p.m.

I'll bet you guys thought I was done with this! I was just away. Tesla density increases dramatically and immediately when you pass Las Vegas heading west, FYI.

Today, Janel called and reported that the car had lost all ability to make noise. Like turn indicator clicks, or streaming radio, or bluetoothed phone calls. This was on her way home for lunch. While she was there, the car requested a software update and it's been happy ever since. I'll get more of the story out of her if I can, like how long that update took. The full V10 upgrade took about 45 minutes to install. I wonder just what was going on?

I also have started accessorizing! But not in an exciting way. The carpet in the trunk does not give the impression of robustness, so I ordered a rubber mat for the trunk and frunk. I also picked up some sun shades for that glass roof because there was a package deal and it's pretty obvious that the car is going to have some real solar gain in the summer.

Also, I like to buy models of my cars. Not only did I find a Matchbox Model 3, I also found a model of the Roadster with Starman in it. I'm a big SpaceX fan, so I'm pretty jazzed about that. You can buy a "presentation model" of the 3 that was given to all the people who pre-ordered. It's a lot nicer than the Matchbox but street value is about $250 and I don't want a model THAT badly.

What kind of noise do you make when you're driving a toy EV around on the table, anyhow? 

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 Dork
10/15/19 8:55 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Tire squeels is the obvious answer given how many 3s show up at autocross.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
10/15/19 9:13 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

TIE fighter engine noise and hair metal, duh. 

secretariata
secretariata SuperDork
10/15/19 9:22 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Jetson's transport noises... ;)

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
10/15/19 9:41 p.m.

I'm on board with the Jetsons. Maybe I need to learn how to imitate the pedestrian warning system back-up alarm.

More on the odd behavior today. Janel got in at work and the car informed her it wanted a software update. It then didn't make any noises as she drove home. When she got home and the car logged into Teslanet (its own private wifi network in the garage), it took 25 minutes to do the update. As I mentioned before, the full update to V10 took 45 minutes. Was the mute mode on purpose to make sure she did the update? Was it some sort of problem that the update was intended to fix? The car still shows that it's on V10.0 and the release notes are for the major version, not a minor update. The Tesla support page about software updates recommends rebooting the touchscreen to solve media problems. We'll see if it comes back.

Forgot to mention the other accessories - I picked up a Slime fix-a-flat kit with a compressor. Same basic concept as the Tesla one but $25 instead of $80. It fits nicely in the mobile charging bag that lives in the trunk basement so it won't roll around.

Also, the USB drive for the dash cam/sentry has filled up again. When this happens, you lose the ability to save the dashcam and Sentry footage. The car is fairly paranoid, so it'll save 10 minutes of footage from 4 cameras every time someone pulls in to park beside you. The solution to a full card is to pull the USB drive and delete the files with a computer. That's a bit annoying - even your most basic point-and-shoot camera has "format card" as an option. I may pick up a bigger drive to put in there. I know I've seen a question on the Tesla forums about using a huge external SSD, but that seems excessive. Still, it opens up the possibility of formatting two partitions on to the drive so you have one for video and one for music.

mattm
mattm Reader
10/15/19 10:49 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

I'm on board with the Jetsons. Maybe I need to learn how to imitate the pedestrian warning system back-up alarm.

More on the odd behavior today. Janel got in at work and the car informed her it wanted a software update. It then didn't make any noises as she drove home. When she got home and the car logged into Teslanet (its own private wifi network in the garage), it took 25 minutes to do the update. As I mentioned before, the full update to V10 took 45 minutes. Was the mute mode on purpose to make sure she did the update? Was it some sort of problem that the update was intended to fix? The car still shows that it's on V10.0 and the release notes are for the major version, not a minor update. The Tesla support page about software updates recommends rebooting the touchscreen to solve media problems. We'll see if it comes back.

Forgot to mention the other accessories - I picked up a Slime fix-a-flat kit with a compressor. Same basic concept as the Tesla one but $25 instead of $80. It fits nicely in the mobile charging bag that lives in the trunk basement so it won't roll around.

Also, the USB drive for the dash cam/sentry has filled up again. When this happens, you lose the ability to save the dashcam and Sentry footage. The car is fairly paranoid, so it'll save 10 minutes of footage from 4 cameras every time someone pulls in to park beside you. The solution to a full card is to pull the USB drive and delete the files with a computer. That's a bit annoying - even your most basic point-and-shoot camera has "format card" as an option. I may pick up a bigger drive to put in there. I know I've seen a question on the Tesla forums about using a huge external SSD, but that seems excessive. Still, it opens up the possibility of formatting two partitions on to the drive so you have one for video and one for music.

So, good news!  With V10 Sentry mode will clean up after itself and delete older recordings.  Check the release notes for V10 which you can get by hitting the T at the top of the screen.  As to the lack of noises it is probably a bug.  Your can reboot the MCU by holding both click wheels on the steering wheel for 10 seconds.  It reboots the infotainment and UI.  You can do it while driving but you will loose the screen while the reboot occurs.  I haven’t experienced the missing noises but I have experienced audio glitches while streaming and using Sirius/XM which sometimes require the reboot.

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
10/16/19 8:52 a.m.

I know V10 Sentry is supposed to clean up after itself but it does not.  Twice it has filled the drive and stopped all recording. Has that not been your experience?

mattm
mattm Reader
10/16/19 12:39 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I haven’t seen that on V10 yet, but my sentry mode is a 512GB microSD card so maybe I haven’t run out of space yet. My suggestion is to format the drive and start over and see it starts to clean up after itself then.  I will tell you that V10 is more finicky about write performance of the USB card.  With my old card it would fail write performance tests on every drive. The car will tell you that the card cannot keep up. They added the backup camera to sentry mode as well so more simultaneous write streams could have pushed my old card over the performance cliff. I will check on how full my card is and watch for Sentry mode to fail on cleanup.

 

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