Lets see what happens!
Lets see what happens!
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
I really don't prefer Chevy trucks, but yours is Hawt!
Thanks! Its shockingly good at truck stuff despite being slammed with fat rubber.
Theres a whole build thread here.
Pulled the challenge car to my house last night. First experience ever with flat towing. Surprisingly simple process, really. Now i can start chasing electrical gremlins and working on plastidip removal.
Hopefully it's simple to find the o2 issue and breaking up under load. As well as the nasty bog/hesitation.
But, much easier when its 20 feet away vs 20 miles. I can think, test, walk away and think some more much easier.
Like i did with the e39. But hopefully this is far simpler and less expensive.
Ill remove before the challenge, but i need a co-pilot navigator/fatherly ballast.
Ive aldo found the broken wire for the oxygen sensor, and am now working on the hesitation and misfiring.
Here's your seat Dad. I love you. Really.
It was free, along with the other harness. Beggars can't be choosers.
Im a huge fan of the flat tow.
In reply to Robbie :
My only concern is the t5. Im worried extended towing will burn it up. Cant find ANYTHING on them as a flat towed vehicle transmission.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
Disconnect the drive shaft if you tow more than a few miles. All RWD gearboxes spin the mainshaft inside the stationary when engine off gears when the drive shaft is turning. There is no way for oil to get up into the selector hubs.
TurnerX19 said:In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
Disconnect the drive shaft if you tow more than a few miles. All RWD gearboxes spin the mainshaft inside the stationary when engine off gears when the drive shaft is turning. There is no way for oil to get up into the selector hubs.
Agreed. Remove rear of driveshaft and secure it out of the way so you don't lose the trans fluid by totally removing it.
I've also heard of people idling the engine in neutral, but that sounds sketchy.
Hmm.....
What is the definition of "more than a few miles"? 50? 75? 10?
Driveshaft disconnect on this is no simple task....
yeah but there is very little load on anything in the transmission. My question is, if the engine is off and the mainshaft is being rotated by the wheels, and the transmission is in neutral, does the counter shaft spin or not?
If it does, then I would not worry at all about lubrication. If it doesn't then I can maybe entertain lubrication becoming an issue, but if the countershaft doesn't rotate then nothing is spinning inside the trans but the main shaft anyway. and oil does come out of the output shaft hole if you remove the driveshaft so that would lend an argument that oil if filled correctly goes up to at least the bottom of the main shaft - meaning that the mainshaft should be lubricating itself as it spins.
I have not flat towed a t5 long distances. But I have also never heard a solid explanation of what about doing that actually damages it. So what am I missing?
Maybe overfill the trans so theres a better chance that the mainshaft is at least touching the oil level, then drain some when you arrive at the destination?
In reply to Robbie :
Countershaft is stationary. Regardless of PIA take the shaft down if you travel more than 20 miles. Other riskier technique is put car in top gear and trap the clutch fully disengaged. If you could overfill it all the way above the mainshaft it would probably be OK, but that is impossible on many units. Fill plug always far too low.
Can you reach the diff flange and just unbolt it there? You don't need to fully remove the driveshaft. Then you can hang a strap through a hole in the floor and tighten it to the ceiling of the trans tunnel. I just discovered that trick a few days ago for dolly-towing my RWD automatic Challenge car.
If you want to get really clever, they make driveshaft disconnect systems for RV towing, but not sure how they hold up to a drag launch.
I can pull the 4 bolts at the diff flange if i drip the ppf delete setup. Then, reconnect it afterwards for travel.
Its quite a bit of work. And theres no clearance for the disconnect.
In gear with the clutch depressed is interesting idea. Other than potentially engaging a gear if the clutch releases, whats the downside? I could easily fab a bracket and wingnut to bolt the pedal to the floor for transit.
TurnerX19 said:In reply to Robbie :
Countershaft is stationary. Regardless of PIA take the shaft down if you travel more than 20 miles. Other riskier technique is put car in top gear and trap the clutch fully disengaged. If you could overfill it all the way above the mainshaft it would probably be OK, but that is impossible on many units. Fill plug always far too low.
eesh. I'd really prefer not to drive around in 5th with the clutch pressed in. Just seems like a recipe for disaster. I'd much rather let the engine idle while driving. or heck, even setup a remote starter so I could idle the engine for 3 minutes every 20 miles from inside the tow rig.
So if the countershaft is stationary, only the main shaft is rotating right? so yes, not much oil splash, but nothing needs the oil either because it is just like if it were sitting there, parked. what is rotating or moving that would not get oil? again, I'm assuming that oil goes up to the bottom of the main shaft at least because oil does come out of the trans if you remove the yoke.
p.s. I'm really trying to understand this because chances are strong I will also be flat-towing a t5 car to the challenge.
Go to an RV forum and ask, that's the flat towing-est group of folks on the planet.
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And am i the only one to notice the tow bar angles UP from the truck to a MIATA?
In reply to Justjim75 :
You are actually the first to mention it.
Dad and i giggled at it. With a trailer ball, the truck will break your ankle.
Id flat tow it, I aint scared.
According to the video, it looks like we can confirm the synchros are located on the output shaft for a T5, therefore towing in neutral will NOT spin the counterhaft (cluster).
https://youtu.be/d9clD8ZL8xA?t=289
Also this site specifically calls out towing a Tremec transmission, since they like to put synchros on the output shaft instead of the input shaft.
https://tremec-blog.com/flat-towing-tremec-transmission-vehicles/
TurnerX19 said:In reply to Robbie :
If you could overfill it all the way above the mainshaft it would probably be OK, but that is impossible on many units. Fill plug always far too low.
Depending on how the shifter is sometimes you can fill the trans through the top with the shifter removed, or if you can get access to the vent on the top of the trans you could probably pump fluid into it through there. That's a relatively easy way to overfill the trans as far as you please. I filled through the shifter for the zf5 in my f250 mostly due to not being able to break the fill plug loose, but also people suggest a slight overfill is a little better for them.
In reply to Robbie :
The mainshaft is rotating inside of all of the change gears, which are held stationary by the countershaft when the engine is off. this is true for all front engine rear wheel drive gearboxes, Some have bronze bushings within the change gears, some have needle bearings. All need continuous lubrication. Transverse transaxles get the needed lube from the final drive gears spinning in the same oil. A long tow without a disconnect brings in the possibility of a gear siezing onto the mainshaft during or immediately after the tow, which then starts the engine turning if during! This more likely with bronze bush gearbox, needle bearings more likely to disintegrate and make a box of neutrals.
So, we have determined that bad E36 M3 happens after a long flat tow with a t5 all hooked up, right? No ifs, ands, or buts. Right?
If so, what (if any) downsides are there to putting it in 5th and locking the clutch pedal in the floor/released position?
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