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Ransom (Forum Supporter)
Ransom (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
4/21/20 8:34 p.m.
dherr (Forum Supporter) said:

The Brits used to sell Waxoil to pour into the frames to keep out moisture and  rust.

I want to say, and I could be mis-remembering, that Retropower (who tend to do really thorough stuff like zinc spraying the floor pans of their builds) still Waxoyl the inaccessible cavities. Good excuse to watch their builds on YouTube, anyhow. Can you imagine building a Cortina for Gordon Murray?

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/21/20 9:12 p.m.
dherr (Forum Supporter) said:

Nice work, so is there a spot where water enters the frame on the TVR chassis? Your 3rd picture shows where the top of the frame on both sides was rusted out in the back mounts the suspension, like water got in the frame and migrated to these two spots? Might not be bad idea to find the holes or fill the frame with foam or something to prevent water and rust? The Brits used to sell Waxoil to pour into the frames to keep out moisture and  rust.

If you remember from way back, the PO had installed a roll-bar at some point that went thru holes in the luggage area floor.  You can see the back mounting holes are still in the back tubes.

I believe that at some point the sunroof was leaking a lot of water, it dripped on the roll-bar and ran down onto the frame.  The areas that got the worst soaking are the ones I've cut out.  So in my build this should not be a point of intrusion.

That said, I very well may do an internal rust treatment like you're suggesting.

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 Dork
4/21/20 9:12 p.m.

In reply to dherr (Forum Supporter) :

I think the moisture in a TVR frame was installed when they built it. They were in Blackpool afterall. 

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/22/20 10:20 a.m.

Anyone have a good reason I shouldn't bolt this frame to a pair of cheap engine stands to make a rotisserie?  I have one stand already, and could get another for not much.

The frame itself isn't very wide or very heavy.  I really would like to be able to roll it around a little.  It's pretty impossible to do much in my garage right now.

dherr (Forum Supporter)
dherr (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/22/20 10:37 a.m.

That is an excellent idea. You will need to modify the engine stand if it does not allow you to be parallel, but I did that with my Spitfire body, made it a one man job to flip over at will.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
4/22/20 10:46 a.m.

Other than possible flexing throwing off accuracy, i cant think of any reason not to

CAinCA
CAinCA Reader
4/22/20 10:47 a.m.
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to CAinCA :

It is indeed an Evo.  The new S380.

I like that fence a lot.  I'll have to think about doing something like that too.

Here's a pic either the floor installed. I drilled a pair of holes in the side of the saw base and installed a pair of 1/4-20 PEM nuts. All of the fasteners are 1/4-20 so I can use one Allen wrench to install and adjust it. 

 

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/22/20 10:58 a.m.
dherr (Forum Supporter) said:

That is an excellent idea. You will need to modify the engine stand if it does not allow you to be parallel, but I did that with my Spitfire body, made it a one man job to flip over at will.

Yes, I'd have to figure out some leveling.

Did you convert yours to swivel casters on all points?  I could theoretically pick up each end to side-shift, but I really shouldn't TRY to blow out my back.

dherr (Forum Supporter)
dherr (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/22/20 2:38 p.m.

I did not convert the casters. It really was not an issue as the body was pretty light. 

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/22/20 4:24 p.m.

"Operation: Clean this E36 M3 Up" has begun.  New shelf from HD today:

Nice to have all of that off the floor and tucked away.  When I sold my bandsaw, it freed up enough room to add this one.

In other news, I bought a second engine stand from a dude in a parking lot.  "Operation: Spinny Rolley Space-Frame" is in the works.

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/23/20 6:06 p.m.

BAM!

ROTISSERIE!!

A bit more complicated than that, but that really did come together quickly.

A little on the engine stands - these are both the 1/2 Ton $60-ish model from Harbor Fright.  One I bought two years ago when I was doing the engine work, one I bought yesterday.  The actual construction is a bit different between the two, but both of them tilted back 3 to 5 deg and both had non-rotating back wheels.  The rotational centerline of the two was about 2" different.

Turns out the magic method for leveling and evening involves swapping in a 5" caster.

Blurry pic here:

These are the casters you can buy for the wire rack like I just bought.  They're about $20 for a pack of four, have locks, lots of weight capacity, and they seem to roll well and hold up well.  I've bought them for random projects before and I've yet to find as good for the money.

I replaced the bottom outside tube with a longer equivalent and bolted in the casters: 

The new tube is about 40" long and give zero inclination toward tipping over.  Very stable.

Level ended up just about perfect:

It was quite a dead-lift getting each end socketed into the respective stand, but I did it without dropping anything or without shooting a vertebral disc thru the wall.

Another pic of the finished product:

There are a few details to clean up, but this one is mostly done.  It spins painlessly.  It rolls around the shop without any resistance at all.  I'm very happy!

bluej (Forum Supporter)
bluej (Forum Supporter) UberDork
4/23/20 6:23 p.m.

*startsaslowclap*

 

Love it. And thanks for the caster tip yes

JoeTR6 (Forum Supporter)
JoeTR6 (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/23/20 6:25 p.m.

That's super cool.  Imagine how much better your welds will be when you can put the frame in a comfortable position to weld on it.

As for storage, I bought four of the ceiling mounted storage racks for lighter plastic tubs full of stuff.  This got lots of crap off of the floor and made it possible to move around in the garage.

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L)
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) UltraDork
4/24/20 7:57 a.m.

Fantastic solution to leveling. Simple, clean and effective.

 

dherr (Forum Supporter)
dherr (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/24/20 8:21 a.m.

That folks is how it is done! Nice work and this will save you time and make welding much easier. That chassis will be better than new when you are done with it!

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/24/20 10:01 a.m.

Thanks, guys!

On the leveling, I was honestly a little surprised that all it took was swapping in the casters.  I did measurements on the used one, and took a guess that it would work on my original (that was still sitting disassembled in the attic).

Also - for reference - the tubes I added are 2" square x 1/8" wall - 40" long.  You might be able to add the casters to the existing tubes.  Would just require grinding off the old wheel mounts.  And the stability may or may not be an issue.

Meanwhile I've been blowing off paying work all week.  I really need to get some stuff done!

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/26/20 8:46 p.m.

Not a big weekend in the shop - mostly a lot of clean-up.

I did get one good thing done.  I wanted to know how well the sandblasted frame was going to TIG weld, so this afternoon I took a cut off piece and test welded it to a new chunk of tubing.

Results:

Pretty good.  It really didn't behave much differently from the new piece to the old pitted piece.  I worried it would spit a lot of rust and impurities, but it was totally fine.

Another view:

Penetration on the inside wall looked good.  Overall I'm very happy with the test part.  This gives me confidence to move right ahead with welding in the repairs.

Crackers
Crackers Dork
4/26/20 9:54 p.m.

That looks great for old crap. Spent all afternoon welding on garbage, with somewhat less agreeable results.

Eastwood sells a cavity wax kit for frame rails/sills etc. I have no idea how well it works on already rusty metal, but it seems like all the cool kids are doing it these days. 

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/27/20 8:35 a.m.

In reply to Crackers :

I was really happy how it turned out.  That little section was one of the worst rusted sports.  The media blasting really cleaned it out.

I tried to TIG the motor mounts on last year - before the sandblasting.  Even after a thorough wiring brushing, the old metal basically exploded with impurities.   I had to hit those with the wirefeed.

This test definitely opens up all options.

noddaz
noddaz UltraDork
4/27/20 8:44 a.m.
Crackers said:

That looks great for old crap. Spent all afternoon welding on garbage, with somewhat less agreeable results.

Eastwood sells a cavity wax kit for frame rails/sills etc. I have no idea how well it works on already rusty metal, but it seems like all the cool kids are doing it these days. 

Instead of cavity wax could you use the kit to shoot Por-15 into the cavities?

BTW, cavity wax makes me want to get a Q-Tip for my ears.

Scott

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
4/27/20 9:07 a.m.

The caveat with cavity waxes is if you should ever have to weld on the piece again. The E36 M3 burns and is hard to clean out.

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/27/20 10:11 a.m.
NOHOME said:

The caveat with cavity waxes is if you should ever have to weld on the piece again. The E36 M3 burns and is hard to clean out.

Yeah, I don't know.  That does give me a bit of concern. I would like to be able to make modifications and spot-paint in the future.

I live in a high-plains desert.  And this car is going to live indoors.  Internal tube treatment may not be necessary.

Crackers
Crackers Dork
4/28/20 12:30 a.m.

In reply to noddaz :

I'm pretty sure they also have a POR-15 version, (or a house brand version of the same) but I'm suspicious of using any product that doesn't reccomend a rust remediation process prior to approval.

I was just mentioning they had the kit since the topic came up. 

In reply to NOHOME :

I use beeswax on ornamental ironwork and i end up getting it all over the place, so I can confirm it does spit back when you try to weld it lol.

It does however come off pretty well with acetone. 

I actually just bought myself a TIG earlier today. I'm anxious to see how bad it really is about contamination. My table usually has wax on it, so I suppose I'll find out soon enough. LOL 

twentyover
twentyover Dork
4/28/20 3:48 a.m.

Think old dope and fabric airframes used to use linseed oil in the tubes to keep down internal corrosion. But I doubt you will be looping the TVR (on purpose), so maybe something like waxyoil or Eastwood has an internal frame treatment.

 

Th tube joint looks almost like acetylene welding- Using oxy-gas, mig, or tig?

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L)
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) UltraDork
4/28/20 7:34 a.m.

Should internal rust treatment be wanted/needed (I agree, in the high desert, it's likely fine), I used and liked this:

I can't speak to longevity, as the car has been indoors since treated, but the hose was clever, and made application easy. Same problems with future welding, though. The Tig test looks great. 

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