My Old Van: 1987 Econoline E-150, or "Scope creep is my friend"

well, the wife wanted to tear more van apart tonight, so that's what we did!  I'm starting to think we need a weekend away at a junkyard just so she can satisfy her desire to rip stuff apart... but I digress.  We got a huge bit of the interior out:

The top of that is one single long piece of solid oak, and it's not light.  On the left is a cabinet that held a VCR, toward the right is a small cabinet with a light, a cigarette lighter, and an ash tray.  As a bonus, there were some headphone jacks built in.  Those were wired into the massive 4" television that is still in the van, so the passengers could watch the movie without annoying the berk out of the driver, whos right ear in inches from the speaker on the television.

Underneath that was quite an assortment of stuff, including 1 mouse nest and this sweet pontiac fiero hotwheels car:

We then started ripping up the carpet, looking for more rust holes in the floor.  Turns out the low spots in the floor caused by the stamped shape were filled with plywood, then foam put over that, then carpet over that.

All in all, lots more room for activities inside:

A few things I learned: First, some idiot drilled 4 giant holes in the floor to mound that middle seat pedestal, then drilled 4 more 3 inches away to actually bolt the seat in.  They did not fill in the first holes.  The holes aren't rusty, shockingly, but I can clearly see the garage floor.  Second thing I learned, that side panel with the pin striped fabric is one giant piece of fabric, front to back, put over foam on top of a giant sheet of plywood.  It's also held in place by the front seat belt and rear closet thing which I couldn't remove.  There's always tomorrow.  I also don't have the right tools to remove that seat belt mount.  I think.  It hit midnight and we went inside. Third thing I learned, the floor is very solid, except right around the rear wheel well.  There, again, I can see the garage floor.

One day i'll start patching those holes in the front... The weld through primer showed up today.  I think it's 3M weldable primer II or something like that.  Supposedly designed for the areas between welded panels.  Lets hope I have enough MIG gas...

In reply to Crackers :

When I was a kid my uncle and his friends worked at Grumman and a couple of them did some futuristic spaceship looking fiberglass interior panels instead of the usual wood and shag carpet.

So with some more help of my wife, we made it all the way to the back of the van:

She's poking at something on the floor.  The reason is a bit depressing.  To back track a bit, we wanted to get to the inside of the outer wall of the van to assess rust around the windows.  That required getting the interior wall out.  To get the interior wall out, we needed to get the rear closet out.  To get that out, we needed some leverage.  She was inside the van, I was leaning in the back door with my elbow braced against the floor for leverage.  While wiggling and yanking the wood closet out, my elbow felt a very distinct "crunch" through the carpet.  Berk.

Here's the ugly carpet, ugly as always:

The carpet pulled out with a reasonably amount of force:

BERK.  At least the top of the gas tank still looks good.  Fortunately i'm starting the patching at the front (pics to come, floor patch currently in progress), so i will have plenty of time to emotionally cope with this.  To be honest, for a 30+ year old rust belt truck, that's basically not rusty.  See? rationalization has already begun.  I'll be fine.

On the scope creep front, here's a shot of one of the side windows after the window was removed but before the interior was removed:

You can see the outer skin, a brace that was cut away for the window, and the plywood that made the structure of the interior wall.  Between them, almost 6" of dead space that was filled with fiberglass insulation.  My two ideas are: 

1: utilize all this wasted space as storage or something once I get to redesigning the interior (probably LONG time from now)

2: Crash bars and various roll cage type stuff tied into the outer skin/bracing, but hidden behind the interior, increasing the side impact protection beyond a single sheet of 20 gauge steel while being totally covered by the future interior.  

Thoughts?  Is that crazy enough?  I have potentially years before I get to the interior anyway, so plenty of time for scope-creep based ideas to fully mature.

More teardown!  It's almost like this van is FULL of junk or something...  Wife wanted to take the wood off the dash

Tadaa!  The dash is worn from the wood vibrating against it, and there are holes in it from the wood.  Not pretty.  My wife likes the old school dash more than the wood, but this is all damaged.  No idea what i'm going to do about this.  Fortunately I don't have to worry about that for a long time.

One night I climbed underneath to see what I could see.

Gross.  The outside of the door sill looks pretty good, but this inner panel doesn't.  

Some banging away at it, and it appears to be more porous than I expected

Chopping away:

Removing cut part...

Well that's all rusty in there...  Fortunately the inner panel appears to be the culprit, most of the outer panel looks fine.

So anyways, back to the hole in the floor.  Yes, I jump around topics while typing, and while working.  If i get an hour, i poke around for an hour.  If i get another hour later, I poke around somewhere else for another hour.  It might not be great for project work flow, but it keeps me occupied and happy.  So that floor...

Here's where we left off (but with a larger hole off to the side) along with the doubler panel i made:

Cleaned, etched, and with a coat of 3M weld through II:

Top left the shiny spot there was where I filled in (and ground smooth) some gouges I made when I was being a bit too aggressive with a cutting disk.

Rosette welded (i suck at that still) and ground smooth:

I probably wouldn't have bothered with the grinding but ther is going to be another panel, the floor, on top of that doubler panel.  

The 3M weld through dealy worked pretty well.  The welds weren't any worse than my usual ones, solid but ugly.  The only difference I noticed was increased spatter.  

The reason the other hole has grown so much is because of more rust discovery.  See rust, cut it out, reveal more rust, repeat.  I'm about to the end of the rust in that particular section, then i'll weld in patches.  

I've been thinking more and more and i'm coming up with a direction I want this to take.  Fortunately that direction is spurring on a quicker approach to tear down and cutting out rust.  Possibly some photoshopping to come.  Having some end goals in mind is very motivating.

I'm no photoshop expert, or even a noob, i'm not good enough to qualify for noob, but i did a thing.  I took this:

and made a few changes:

All minor, but i'm not going for anything crazy.  I changed the front to a late-80's style hood/grill, poorly, added the 8 grill lights I had on mine to begin with, made the wheels 17" instead of 15", lowered it a bit, and added a side exhaust. 

My van sits lower than the normal club wagon already, probably due to all the furniture and huge swing trailer hitch on the back.  It'll be lighter now without all the furniture in it, but i'm putting some kind of furniture back in so it'll be low again.  Possibly even more weight when i'm done.  The front on mine sits a bit higher, but all the crap i want to add to the engine and front end in general will probably add plenty of weight and bring it down to where it is in that photochop without suspension modifications.  I don't really want to mess with the suspension anyway.  I like the idea of 17" wheels, i'd like beefier brakes at some point and trucks don't seem to come with 15s anymore... slightly worried about tire availability in the distant future.  Most "custom" old trucks seem to rock much bigger wheels, but i think huge wheels are dumb, even if they wouldn't look as huge on this huge van.  My original wheels are pretty 80's-tastic, but they are way too damaged for me to consider saving, not when I can melt them for that sweet, sweet high quality cast aluminum.  It appears most of the decent quality pics have white strip tires, and going to 17's just brings the wheels to about the diameter of the white stripe.  It's barely noticeable, which I like.  I also widened the rear tires.  This thing has space in there for really wide tires, and i might go for that if i get all the extra power(!!!) i would like.

The side exhaust through the body was just a weird idea I had.  My exhaust (before rusting off) exited below the body in front of the rear wheel by necessity.  The hitch is so huge it doesn't allow the exhaust to go to the back, so it was shortened to exit out the side.  It was sweet, too, a 3" gibson exhaust out the side rocks.  The problem was the huge running boards meant the pipe just stuck out right along the ground, easy to snag on curbs or, as I found out, dead raccoons.  Said raccoon was VERY solid and pulled the pipe back into the tire, so i ran it over.  At 75mph.  The raccoon then exploded and its guts went everywhere, including all over the hot pipe which cooked it to death.  Running boards might be going away as I don't like them (also they rusted clean off the van),  and through-the-side exit means it won't hang down in the dead-raccoon-zone.

This photo also has no roof rack, i might be removing mine and not replacing it or just adding some different roof rails.  Way in the future, not worried about those details.  This was just a photo I grabbed from google and isn't very accurate to mine.  What I do like about this one is the factory rear windows. Mine are much larger, but I like the look of the club wagon windows better.  If I could, I would cut the sides out of a club wagon and weld them to mine, but that's probably not going to happen. 

Also, i like the less insane color scheme.  I count 3 colors on that blue van, not 5 like on mine.  I'm going for much less insane paint.  I was thinking one color, my wife would like 2 or 3.  Don't know why... she likes blue and silver, which I think are 2 of that van's colors.  Who knows, paint is so far ahead.  Maybe i'll get my 1 color wish.  

Basically i'm taking off a lot of stuff tacked on this van, and simplifying the paint job.  Not much else, but it's nice to have some kind of idea to shoot for while i'm digging through the rust.  The 8 grill lights that i pulled off mine fit great, but they are REALLY rusty and im' not sure I can find that kind of light anymore.  Everything seems to be those dumb blue LED's that I don't care for... Then again, I haven't tried looking very hard. 

Future visual ideas possibly to change, open to suggestions.  But no, i'm not doing murals or shag carpeting.  and no version of "Free Candy" fits on a 7 digit license plate in WI.  Trust me, a bunch of us tried to figure that puzzle out but nothing was convincing enough.  Closest we came up with was FR3 CNDY

Nice work on the rendering. It's always motivational to have that goal in mind, even if it changes from time to time. Keep up the good work. I enjoy watching you work through this.

How about a variation on the theme? CNDY VAN

ShawneeCreek said:

How about a variation on the theme? CNDY VAN

!!!! That fits!!!!

I kinda want to go absolutely bonkers with the drivetrain, wanted to keep the outside relatively tame, hence the simple photochop.  Maybe a few additional things to the front like a black air dam, maybe something to divert more air through the grill and not underneath. The front opening is pretty huge, im guessing it should be plenty big enough for all the airflow i need.

Tonight I didn't have time to do any work, but I did poke around a bit underneath.  The camera here is about where the front tire is, looking back:

That appears to be a body support that extends down to support the step inside the drivers door.  The bottom of that is nasty.  The outside of the door sill looks kinda gross there, too, though the only holes are visible from underneath.  Looks like a few layers of sheet meeting all under that support, all directly behind the front tire.  The big support feels good on the inside, but the sheet that it's welded to is basically all toast.  

I've been spending more time lately chopping out rust and less time patching, though I do have a floor patch panel made up for the hole in the floor.  Just haven't had 220v available because of the "unique" way it's wired into the garage...

Haven't gotten much done lately, had some people visiting and we had a great time.  Had a chance to play with a harbor freight metal lathe, learned some stick welding, generally got burned and cut and smiled a lot.

awesome stuff, I like it.  The possibilities in my mind...

Anyways, back to the van, while cutting rust away i've been dreaming about engine work.  I'm going to try rebuilding the 302 with megasquirt and a bunch of other changes for fun, but would it be better to skip the 302 and just get a 351?  My dad keeps saying they are so cheap just buy one a get a jump start on the power.  He's as bad of an enabler as you people.  Actually he said "buy that and put it in the van" when he saw the new Engine Masters with the 598ci BBC engine.   I said "Can I have 10 thousand dollars then?" and he said "Sure, but the grandkids (my kids) have to live with us from now on".  

Speaking of the van, i made a video on the tearing it apart: 

And from a while back, doing the fender patch:

If you have any welding tips on that fender repair, I'm all ears.  Still new to welding, always like learning new things.

Remember the switches, radio, and fuses on the ceiling? no? well here's a picture:

well, my wife the destructor helped me turn it into this:

Lots of wiring in there.  5 switches on one side for various lights/entertainment things (like VCR), the other side had 5 fuses for those switches.  The zip tie game was on point:

My wood pile is growing, too

Then, the ceiling: 

Looks like the fabric has a foam backer, which is glued lightly onto plywood sheets going widthwise across the ceiling.  Those sheets are screwed into smaller pine boards that go lenghtwise along the underside of the roof, with more fiberglass insulation between them.  I THINK the roof is the next layer after that.  Unfortunately the widthwise plywood sheets couldn't be removed since the trim and stuff on the other side is holding it up.  Gonna get to that tomorrow probably.  My wife wants to rip everything out this weekend.

Unfortunately, she doesn't have the same enthusiasm when it comes to using a grinder...

As you dismantle the van, I can't help but be amazed by the amount of work that went into doing the custom interior in the first place. All work that is going to have to be re-done to suit your vision. 

Pete

In reply to NOHOME :

Agreed.  I still don't have a vision for the interior just yet, but I realize now why the interior work and paint job cost nearly as much as the panel van itself.  4 additional paint colors and layer after layer of interior parts.  

I'm starting to think when I get this back on the road it will spend some of it's time as an empty van again.  I used to buy 12' boards without thinking twice, cant do that in my wife's subaru... I'll probably simplify the rear end, no more big closets bolted in permanently. Those really get in the way of removing the seats, and I want this to be more usable 

Oh and I'm saving large pieces of fabric and probably large pieces of wood for future other projects.  The ceiling fabric isn't sun faded, though it's still a bit fragile.  I got some rolls probably 2' by 10' in good shape from there.  The biggest chunks of wood will still be 2' x 4' solid oak by the time I cut the rotten parts off.  Talk about raw material recovery, its like a gold mine!  But of wood and 80's brown fabric. All the Shag carpeting is dying a long dark death in the landfill, however. 

Saturday means more work time.  I spent some time under the drivers step with some cutting discs:

Why cut that out? well here it is inside:

Not pretty.  I think i'll just cut that stuff all out.  I don't want any rust hidden in the sill.  "hidden" isn't much of a word for it, though, as the thing turns to swiss cheese back by the rear wheel.  Grinding is in my future.

Time to weld some stuff back on I think.  Remember the floor hole? well its time to fix that.

I got some butt weld clamps, wanted to test them out.  After I took that photo i took the panel out and cleaned everything up.  it's been a while since I cut that hole and made that panel.  underneath was a bit harder to clean up, so i did as good as i could and started tacking.

Occasional adjustments with a hammer and dolly and i kept going.  Seems like the railroad track dolly worked VERY well as a hammer.

The panel didn't fit the hole perfectly, but hammer, tack, hammer, tack, et. cetera 

I learned a lot welding that in.  For one, check the gas is on before you start.  Also i got some practice welding poor gaps (1/8" max I think).  Got into a rhythm, and got it done eventually.  The bottom left was where I started and I had some major rust to shake free off my mig skills, so I had poor penetration.  This comes back to haunt me.

Cleaned it up:

Eastwood drum sander dealy did this:

Looks pretty good.  I didn't grind on and on until the evidence of the welds was totally gone as I was worried i would thin the metal, so i just kinda cut down the top of the weld to close to surface level.  Remember the lack of penetration I talked about?

Those first few inches only had the weld metal on top, so when i ground it off i lost the weld.  Fixed that, took 2 passes but no more pin holes.

Floor patch looks great, man.

In reply to wheelsmithy :

Thanks!  it's a real confidence boost when something like this goes right.  next up is that hole to the left, through which you can see the brake calliper from the drivers seat.  Not that foot-ventilation isn't handy and all, but i'd rather not have rocks hit me in the face while driving...

Nice to see some steel going in. Was getting concerned with all the cutting out of metal and no welding stuff back in.

Pete

I know what you mean!  unfortunately i'm limited by who/what is also in the garage, and whether i have access to 220v or not.  kid playing in the driveway? wife wants to tear things apart? RX8 parked inside right next to the van? wife doing laundry? no welding :(  all the 110 i want for grinding, though.  unless kiddos around, then it's cleanup time.

OK back on track, remember this hole:

I don't how I decided i'm going to tackle this, but this happened:

I knew it was a good idea to save that long strip of scrap...

Got a tipping die for my bead roller, that plus the stretcher/shrinker got me this:

Holding it in with butt clamps, this was before lots of trimming and fitting, etc...  The flange was full length on the patch, but near the bottom there isn't a need for it.  Lots of trimming etc... I made the patch extra large and trimmed the hole and patch until it fit pretty well.  

I'm still new to this but i'm getting much more comfortable butt welding patches in place

Still lots of welding to do on it, but not until i go get some more gas. the next two pictures are top and bottom of the same part of the patch:

It looks like i'm getting penetration MOST of the time, but not ALL of the time.  Is it a good idea to go back over the bottom of the seam too?  That christopher runge guy who build the awesome small porsche-esk aluminum cars says he goes over butt welds top and bottom, then grinds/finishes them.  of course he's tig welding sheet aluminum to a high level of quality, not mig welding invisible patches in a rusty old van...

I've established a new strategy.  As in, i barely had one before, but now I do.  Basically now that the tear down is mostly done and my wife's lust for destruction seems satiated, i'm taking on the rust patches one at a time.  I made a list of known rust holes in the order i plan to address them.  do one patch start to finish before starting the next one.  check them off the giant cardboard list i now have duct taped to the side of the van, one at a time.  

That sounds like a great strategy to me. Small milestones can be really rewarding and motivating. Good luck :)

In reply to Rufledt :

and my wife's lust for destruction seems satiated

Yeah...was kinda noting that.

I think your welding is at the point where trigger time is going to be your best way to improve.  There is a concentration factor in there somewhere, but since I still cant master it, cant speak as to how to achieve it.

The list of patches is a VERY good idea. Just think of the sense of satisfaction you get each time you finished one. Don't taint the victory by feeling like you have to do all of them  at once.

This is an ambitious project. Keep it fun.

Pete

back on it after some summer vacations.  That floor patch i was working on up there, I finished it.  I also got a new tool: 

Used it lightly on the weld:

Then hit it with the drum sander deal with a scotch brite drum:

I skipped a bunch of grits, went from 80 to scotch brite, but i can't tell where the weld was anymore.  It's pretty awesome.  The HF belts kinda suck, but I got some more in that I ordered.  Next up is the drivers door sill, once i finish this thing:

That's a pretty dang good tool budget ya got right there.  

Hurray! The Jeep is back. Was wondering where that got to and surprised to see it painted. Been following your skills growth since you started the fist cut on the Jeep and have to say you have come a long way.

Pete

Looking good!  

When I had my 1990 E150 5.0, I also had dreams of engine improvements.  The "easy-ish" button is a 348 crate motor.  Rather than MegaSquirt, I was looking at one of the Ford Motorsport EFI kits. Generally better power than a 351W and fits into the engine hole (hard to call the space in a van an "engine bay") better than the taller 351W.  Were I to go with a 341W base, I'd just go stupid and go for one of the 408 or 427 stroker versions.  Bearing in mind that a larger engine will almost certainly require a transmission upgrade. 

One of the issues I found with a van is headers.  From what I read way back when (I sold my van back in early 2007) was that none of the truck headers would fit, although I never was able to find out why.  Of course, with your new found welding skills, you can probably buy a set of regular headers and then modify them as needed to fit.