Project Loki - 1988 classic SAAB turbo

May I introduce to you the one and only project Loki…tadadadaaaaaaa

A 1988 SAAB 900 Turbo

So for those who have seen and suffered through my various threads on what car, or asking questions about E30’s, Rx7’s Probes, SAAB’s etc. You’ll know that I’ve been looking for a cheap, sub $1k car that I can spend another $1k on over the next year as a project to build a toy car. It’s intended purpose is to NOT be my daily driver and so NOT have to be relied upon for any essential purpose so I can make compromises in its build that I wouldn’t want to have in a street car. I want to use it for the occasional track day, TSD’s, Rallycross and possibly even some traditional parking lot cone dodging, although my interest there has been waning of late. I’ve done the Detroit region TSD school a couple of times and really want to try that, plus threads like Irish44j’s (Josh Hicky) amazing E30 rallycross build that’s on just about every forum out there, have convinced me I have to give it a try. If that’s not my bag baby I can go back to pavement pounding.

I really wanted a car that hits my emotional buttons, which means mainly 80’s cars as that’s when I was coming of age, and they must have a real top line motorsports heritage, believe it or not, that’s where the Miata falls down. For all the gazillion events they’ve entered and won, nothing has been at an international level. I didn’t grow up seeing Miata’s enter the British tour car championship, or national rally championship let alone European or world touring cars or WRC. Car’s like the XR4ti, E30, SAAB turbo, FB/FC Rx7’s are close enough to their older or European cousins (Sierra Cosworth, E30M3, factory SAAB 99’s Group B FB Rx7 ) etc. to still hit my emotional button. So too to a lesser extranet did the Fiat Spider and a few others. Anyway here’s the end result of the questions, research, selling stuff and wasted trips to view rusty cars.

Loki, the SAAB Loki in Snow from PO

After asking lots of questions about different cars and viewing various cars over the summer that were either too far gone or just didn’t hit my emotional WANT button, I was asking on the Saabrally forums about rust on a car I was considering in Grand Rapids. The general consensus was no, but Matt (dabird on GRM and SAABrally) popped up and said he had a rust free ex Colorado car for sale in Indiana. Great, Indiana’s one state down from MI, I can be there soon. Not so fast, he’s in New Albany Indiana, that’s not exactly next door to Michigan, instead it’s about 5 blocks in from the Ohio River or ¼ of a mile from Louisville Kentucky. Gulp; let’s look at some more pics first. Matt was great, totally honest about the condition and what was needed so after much hemming and hawing it was off South to have a look with money in hand just in case. Well, to be honest after looking at pics, exchanging about 20 e-mails etc. I was 99% certain I was going to be bringing it back. So after explaining the attraction to a tatty looking 25 year old Saab to my massively understanding wife (boy am I in for a long honey do list now :o ) I cajoled good friend and enabler Tom Spangler into making the trip in his Ecoboost F150 with trailer in tow. Now it’s one thing for me to persuade my wife that I’m off on a fool’s errand to get a junker car, but it’s quite another for a friend to bid his whole family good bye to leave before they’re awake and not return until the kids are asleep, but he’s a hero and did it willingly. Having left his place about 6:15 Tom arrived at my pad at a more civilized 7:00am. Unfortunately the promised perfect weather was running late and we set off in thick fog so you couldn’t see more than a 100feet ahead at first. We were well into enemy territory (Ohio) before the fog burned off and we could see the dangers of the flying donut patrol (Ohio State Police). Now as anyone forced to drive through Ohio will know, the flying donut patrol are some of the strictest revenue collectors in the great lakes area. Forget the Michigan’s de facto 85mph speed limit, 5 over is jail bate and 2 over with Michigan plates (and Worse a UofM sticker in the back window) means you’re lucky to escape with a life sentence. But towing a trailer, prudent driving and one eye on the gas gauge meant that our speeds was always within legal bounds and so we were fine the whole trip. Many, and I mean many others weren’t as lucky as we saw literally 25-30 cops with people pulled over as we drove the full length of Ohio and back. They were out in full force all day, the Ohio state coffers must in flush by now. Anyway, 6 ½ hours after leaving home and into our 4th state of the day, we drive up the road to find Matt waiving to us from the side walk. Introductions over with it’s on to the car which turns out to be exactly as described by Matt in his e-mails. I’ll cover the condition of the car in the next post.
So, I pay the man, get the title signed over and it’s time to load up and head home.

PO Matt (dabird on SAABrally and GRM Forums) removing his plate as we load Loki up and haul her away. That's Tom Spangler in the background strapping him down to the trailer. Big thanks to Tom for spending 14 hours in the car and using his truck and trailer for the nearly 800 mile round trip so missing the Lions (loose) and the US Grand Prix in the process.

Last shot before the off. Matt saying good bye to 'his' now MY car

Again, no issue with the trip, we did have to stop and tighten the straps a couple of times, and at lunch we slightly re-positioned the car, after that it never moved an inch. The biggest excitement all the way home was stopping for gas. I start abusing my credit card (although an overall trip average around 15mpg was very good for a 10,000lb. all up weight of truck, trailer and car) while Tom heads into the station for a bio break. ‘Holy E36 M3, its pissing gas out over here’ Sure enough I go round the other side of the pump and gas is coming out from the nozzle/hose onto the ground. Tom runs in to tell the attendant who is remarkably unconcerned and I finish up. Thinking about it later we shouldn’t have told him, I should have just stuck a bucket under the stream of gas and filled up for free, oh well next time. So the best part of 800 miles and a little over 14 hours after leaving, we’re back at my place to unload. My wife comes out to survey the damage along with my next door neighbor who I always attend the Sno*Drift rally with who had no Idea I was bringing home a toy until I started sending cryptic text’s to rouse his interest on the drive back. Many many thanks to Tom and he’s off another 40mins home with my sunglasses, iPod and the title (I hope!!) still in his truck. Yup, I’m a dumb ass when excited, I have a brain like a sieve.

On the road home

Tom the driver looking as happy as me

There's a SAAB back there!

Quick, it's gaining!!

Look out, the berkeleyers trying to pass now!!!!

Lunch, quick reposition of the car and tighten the straps.

A quick polish and she'll be mint sir!

So, what do I have? More in the next post.

Surveying the patient. As I said last time, the car was as described. Here’s a rundown and some pics that Matt had sent during our e-mail negotiations.

Nose rash where Matt opened the hood and caught a chain link fence scratching it.

Fundamentally a rust free ex Colorado car where the roads aren’t made of solid salt for 4 months out of the year. There is some rust at the typical RH lower frame rail near the control arm mount, but not yet an issue and easily savable. All the usual SAAB places, door bottoms, rockers, wheel arches corners of boot (sorry hatch/trunk) corner of rear seat pan, front and rear wheel arch inners, all good. There is some surface rust on the A pillar which I’ll pop the screen out and fix, plus a little bubble on the driver’s rocker that’s protected that might need a little patch. But truly, for a 25 year old car it’s as close as you’ll see to rust free in this part of the world, especially with its paltry 230k+ miles on the clock.

That thing looks to be in most excellent shape!!! Jealous!

Underside of Right Front lower control arm mount. This is the most serious rust on the car and the area that normally kills 99's and 900's. This isn't bad and very saveable. Initialy I will get rid of the rust, treat and cover with POR 15. This will be cut out and re-welded inthe future, but really isn't as bad as it looks. Another shot of RF LCA rust. This is good, I've seen many pics were there is nothing here. Worst case there is a panel available for approx. $200

Look, rust free rockers and underbody!!!!!

Previously the driver’s door has been hit and filled in the center (not rust) it looks worse in the pictures than in real life, I was hoping to get some spare doors from Tim but they weren’t available as his aunt had tossed them out!!!! aaggghhhhh!!!

Back seat doesn't look too bad, carpet's dirty and needs cleaning and dying black.

While the rear seats are good, the fronts are rough. I do have a set of mint blue/purpl​e velour ones to replace them with

Trashed seats!!! I have some mint velour purple seats to go in.

Dash, dirty but there. lot's of cracks will need refinishin​g.

said it was cracked. Nothing some filling paint or flocking can't cure. I have a new glove box lid too.

Ain't that mint!!! Headliner panel is coming out for re-coverin​g. I knew all this in advance.

There are various electrical and boost woes that I’ll get into later. along with dead engine mounts, no 2nd gear syncro etc.

So, what does is need?

So, what needs to be done, when and how? Here's the start of my to do list. Not finished, but it's a starting point.

Engine / Transmission

1. Replace front engine mount - Front mount is completely shot, this needs to be replaced to really make the car drivable.
2. Replace and rebuild shifter bushings - Linkage is sloppy, will do while interior is out.
3. Fix Boost issue - Base boost into yellow zone, get's full boost if APC is capped. Not sure how to trouble shoot this yet.
4. Replace side engine mounts - These felt OK
5. 2nd gear Syncro - Long term, double clutch for now!
6. Add boost - Audi cold start injector HOBBS switch and APC mods

Body work

1. Fix surface rust on RHS A pillar - Windshield out, does not look serious yet.
2. Sunroof mechanism and drains - Worked to open, could hear it trying to close but had to manually crank, don't know if the issue is all electrical or mechanical as well.
3. Fix RHS front LCA mount - Need to catch before it becomes an issue. To start with clean, de-rust and protect with POR15. Cut and weld later.
4. Rear hatch shocks.
5. Door glass slow to raise lower - Remove, clean and re-build mechanism while door cards are out.
6. Refinish bumper.

Interior
1. Replace seats - Mint purple velour seats on hand. Can you re-dye velour?
2. Remove carpet, clean and re-dye - Spray or soak dye?
3. clean, repair and re-dye door, re-quarter etc. trim.
4. Remove, recover headliner and pillar trim
5. Make sunroof interior panel/cover - Cover is missing, bare metal right now.
6. Recover hatch cover.
7. Replace seat belts - Get rid of the icky mouse trap passive and fit real three point belts. Investigate junk yard availability.
8. Clean and re-fit center console.
9. Remove dash, fix cracks, re-finish Either flock or textured paint?
10. Add radio

Suspension, wheels and tires
1. Check flex lines, replace with braided if needed - Brakes feel solid but wooden, new master cyl and recent booster gives me a good feeling these are OK.
2. New pads - Check what the pads are, do they need replacing, worked but little feel, maybe just need surface cleaning and warming up.
3. Get snow/rally tires for Rallycross and TSD's - Used rally of cheap snows??
4. Replace shocks - Bilsteins - Need to drive it to be sure, but current shocks are at least serviceable.
5. New springs - Have some softer and taller 900S springs, measure wire diameter and see of cutting 1 or 2 coils would get a reasonable rate and ride height, out with the calculator!
6. Camber -check, make shims to add
7. Get larger wheels and tires for autocross track days - Fox body 15x7 turbines? With 225 ST tires?
8. Replace bushings - As needed down the road. Wiggle test while driving shows nothing major wrong here.

Electrical
1. Fix fuel pump relay block and replace solenoid - Solenoid works, but car would stop after about an hour. Could be worn female (body side) connectors coming loose when warm. Currently has an on/off switch in it's place. I need to sort this out, either replace whole block which also includes another solenoid or find another one. Is this a konwn issue???
2. Rebuild window and sunroof switches - I think this is contacts, switches worked after fiddling and un-plugging/plugging in a few times.
3. Check operation of sunroof motor and gears, not sure if this is electrical, mechanical or both?? BTW who the hell fits the sun roof motor under the trunk floor at the very very back of the car!!!!!! At least it's easy to get at to wind closed, but man those are some long ass cables!!!
4. Fit a radio - Must have an aux in, beyond that, it has to be cheap. Way down the list.

Other potential prep down the road

Make skid plate/underbody protection for rallycross TSD
Lights for TSD
Remove front sway bar for better traction with no LSD and balance with springs?

It was great meeting you and Tom yesterday. Like I said then, I'm very glad the car went to someone who will mess with it. It has a laundry list of issues, but with a little time and money, they're all surmountable and the body is solid enough to justify some investment.

I like that glamour shot with my Suburban in the background.

Sneaky bastard, I didn't know I was being photographed while driving!

So, how do you feel about hillbilly pickem-up-trucks now, Mr. Euro-weenie?

Tom_Spangler wrote: So, how do you feel about hillbilly pickem-up-trucks now, Mr. Euro-weenie?

The truce is off, I've had the use of it, no need to be polite anymore!!!

Anyway, who needs a hillbilly pick-em-up truck when you have hill billy friends

Powar wrote: It was great meeting you and Tom yesterday. Like I said then, I'm very glad the car went to someone who will mess with it. It has a laundry list of issues, but with a little time and money, they're all surmountable and the body is solid enough to justify some investment. I like that glamour shot with my Suburban in the background.

Great meeting you too. The questions will start soon

Congratulations on your "new" car.

Add this to your Favorites:

http://townsendimports.com/Web/entry/dir_of_services.htm

Read there about how to make the front mount last by fitting a piece of hose to the safety bracket. Should be APC troubleshooting there, too. Bentley manual is helpful, an abridged version of the original Saab manual.

I don't know how common it is, but I have seen one car with the fuel and system relay block thrashed.

Note that those springs have "dead" coils on them, so cutting them off will lower the ride height without raising the rate. Also, a stock c900 will easily ride the bump stop "cones" in the front springs. If you lower the car, consider cutting off the bottom "bubble" of each cone.

This site has info on window regulators: http://fixmysaab.com/. Generally, the info there is sound, but not written by a professional like the Townsend site.

I know it's kind of a polarizing site for some, but I think that Saabnet's c900 forum has some very knowledgeable posters on it, and it's very civil. There are at least two techs on there now, and there have been others over the years.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: So, what needs to be done, when and how? Here's the start of my to do list. Not finished, but it's a starting point. Engine / Transmission 1. Replace front engine mount - Front mount is completely shot, this needs to be replaced to really make the car drivable. 2. Replace and rebuild shifter bushings - Linkage is sloppy, will do while interior is out. 3. Fix Boost issue - Base boost into yellow zone, get's full boost if APC is capped. Not sure how to trouble shoot this yet. 4. Replace side engine mounts - These felt OK 5. 2nd gear Syncro - Long term, double clutch for now! 6. Add boost - Audi cold start injector HOBBS switch and APC mods Body work 1. Fix surface rust on RHS A pillar - Windshield out, does not look serious yet. 2. Sunroof mechanism and drains - Worked to open, could hear it trying to close but had to manually crank, don't know if the issue is all electrical or mechanical as well. 3. Fix RHS front LCA mount - Need to catch before it becomes an issue. To start with clean, de-rust and protect with POR15. Cut and weld later. 4. Rear hatch shocks. 5. Door glass slow to raise lower - Remove, clean and re-build mechanism while door cards are out. 6. Refinish bumper. Interior 1. Replace seats - Mint purple velour seats on hand. Can you re-dye velour? 2. Remove carpet, clean and re-dye - Spray or soak dye? 3. clean, repair and re-dye door, re-quarter etc. trim. 4. Remove, recover headliner and pillar trim 5. Make sunroof interior panel/cover - Cover is missing, bare metal right now. 6. Recover hatch cover. 7. Replace seat belts - Get rid of the icky mouse trap passive and fit real three point belts. Investigate junk yard availability. 8. Clean and re-fit center console. 9. Remove dash, fix cracks, re-finish Either flock or textured paint? 10. Add radio Suspension, wheels and tires 1. Check flex lines, replace with braided if needed - Brakes feel solid but wooden, new master cyl and recent booster gives me a good feeling these are OK. 2. New pads - Check what the pads are, do they need replacing, worked but little feel, maybe just need surface cleaning and warming up. 3. Get snow/rally tires for Rallycross and TSD's - Used rally of cheap snows?? 4. Replace shocks - Bilsteins - Need to drive it to be sure, but current shocks are at least serviceable. 5. New springs - Have some softer and taller 900S springs, measure wire diameter and see of cutting 1 or 2 coils would get a reasonable rate and ride height, out with the calculator! 6. Camber -check, make shims to add 7. Get larger wheels and tires for autocross track days - Fox body 15x7 turbines? With 225 ST tires? 8. Replace bushings - As needed down the road. Wiggle test while driving shows nothing major wrong here. Electrical 1. Fix fuel pump relay block and replace solenoid - Solenoid works, but car would stop after about an hour. Could be worn female (body side) connectors coming loose when warm. Currently has an on/off switch in it's place. I need to sort this out, either replace whole block which also includes another solenoid or find another one. Is this a konwn issue??? 2. Rebuild window and sunroof switches - I think this is contacts, switches worked after fiddling and un-plugging/plugging in a few times. 3. Check operation of sunroof motor and gears, not sure if this is electrical, mechanical or both?? BTW who the hell fits the sun roof motor under the trunk floor at the very very back of the car!!!!!! At least it's easy to get at to wind closed, but man those are some long ass cables!!! 4. Fit a radio - Must have an aux in, beyond that, it has to be cheap. Way down the list. Other potential prep down the road Make skid plate/underbody protection for rallycross TSD Lights for TSD Remove front sway bar for better traction with no LSD and balance with springs?

procainestart wrote: Congratulations on your "new" car. Add this to your Favorites: http://townsendimports.com/Web/entry/dir_of_services.htm Read there about how to make the front mount last by fitting a piece of hose to the safety bracket. Should be APC troubleshooting there, too. Bentley manual is helpful, an abridged version of the original Saab manual.

Thanks, I'll be heading over there in a couple of mins

procainestart wrote: I don't know how common it is, but I have seen one car with the fuel and system relay block thrashed.

Yeah, I'll post on that later.

procainestart wrote: Note that those springs have "dead" coils on them, so cutting them off will lower the ride height without raising the rate. Also, a stock c900 will easily ride the bump stop "cones" in the front springs. If you lower the car, consider cutting off the bottom "bubble" of each cone.

Bummer, I'll look into it more. For now I don't really want to lower the car much if any. Initialy I'm thinking rallycross and TSD's, I was looking to slightly increase the the rate though.

procainestart wrote:

This site has info on window regulators: http://fixmysaab.com/. Generally, the info there is sound, but not written by a professional like the Townsend site.

procainestart wrote:

I know it's kind of a polarizing site for some, but I think that Saabnet's c900 forum has some very knowledgeable posters on it, and it's very civil. There are at least two techs on there now, and there have been others over the years.

OK, let’s talk fule pump relay issue. The following is what Matt told me in e-mails and when I went to see the car.

fuel pump is run off switch instead of relay. the pins were loose in relay socket and the car would just die randomly after warming up for the first few months i owned it. once i figured this out, I jumped the realay socket with slightly larger connectors wired to a switch and it's never had the problem since.

OK, brain moving fast today. Went to look up getting a new front mount and read procainestart's link to beefing up the engine mount. Looking at a pic of the engine mount on Rock auto I thought there has to be a better way than replacing it and adding some packing between the mount and the safety strap. So I figure why not make one? If this part is so failure prone and so crucial to shifter feel and transmission durability make it stiff, but not truly solid. Solid mounts scare me as they have no give and so no shock adsorption which to me means you would end up cracking the case, mounting flange or body structure. So I figure a flat beefy metal plate (say 1/4" steel) with a high density rubber or poly donut for some give with a big ass bolt through the middle. A clearance hole in the steel plate so the bolt can move while supported by the rubber/poly disc.

This is a quick and dirty sketch done in Excel of all things. Not to scale, don't use it or little kittens will explode in hell, build at your grandchildren’s own risk etc. In other words this is for discussion purposes only at this point.

Yet another Q. What's the difference between the front and side engine mounts? They have different part #'s and different prices, but they look very similar. Are they the same dimensions with different durometer or are they different sizes? If they are the same, would my super ghetto sketch above work for all three?

I know some RX7 guys use ACTUAL hockey pucks in the same manner you are talking about.

They seem to work pretty well.

Rubber hose under the bracket has kept my mount ntact 100k on my car. There are people who make solid mounts similar to what you'vecome up with. Imho the hose trick is easier, faster, cheaper, and with less NVH.

So, front engine mount investigation. First I found this, that's the main positive cable trapped between the mount and the clutch/engine cover!!! Can we say thermal event in the making with a side serving of fireworks!!

Also I find that the battery isn't restrained at all and is just sitting there. Once I got the undertray off (spinning cap head bolts from above!!!) and the one of the fan's out I can finally pull the mount. Yup, that berkeleying berkeleyer is berkeleying berkeleyed

Time to build a new one.

I have a very similar front mount that I bought from an ebay seller in Canada about five years ago. It looks just like your drawing. It has a thick piece of aluminum with dense rubber sheets and a big bolt going up through the center. It eorks pretty good, but does transmit a lot of vibration to the body. It feels very motorcycle-like when running it hard, it doesn't bother me though, I kind of like it.

My car had the same fuel relay problem, what I found was a bad crimp on one of the wire terminals inside the relay socket. I extracted a good terminal from a donner socket and installed it in my socket, and soldered the wire connection. It hasn't given me any trouble since.

Can you give a better description of the APC problem? I've had a few problems with mine that I think I've finally sorted out.

.

OK, rather than my drawing, I’m actually thinking of using these mounts from Energy suspension. They are about $25 for a pair plus about $10 shipping. The are available in either 88A or 70A durometer. I was thinking of the stiffer. I'll be ordering those today so if you think I need the softer let me know ASAP. thx.

That’s good to know on the relay, I’ll be working on that once I’ve got the engine mounts sorted out.

I’ll have to give you the details once I’ve got it up and running. From the few miles I’ve driven so far it’s hard to be sure as the engine mount was so bad (See pic above) From what I see the car starts to come on boost, but plateaus in the middle of the yellow zone (I have a real boost gauge to fit at a later date) but doesn’t build beyond that. Here is a cut and paste from ‘dabird’ the previous owner.
the turbo has never fully boosted since i've owned it. it boosts about halfway into the yellow. I have never checked the base boost and clamping off the apc line makes it boost into the red so the turbo appears to be fine.