SkinnyG's V8 Pontiac Firefly

School is back in session, so progress is much slower.

Finally got the carpet, seats, and seat belts sorted out. Found the interior panels, except I'm missing the bottom door trim pieces.  Should be good for a clandestine voyage tomorrow.

See you got the console kinda sorted out .  Are the seats ok on your back? What project have you lined out for the minions at schuul? 

I took the V8 Firefly out for a short drive around the neigbourhood. Good news: it's not awful!

Wheelspin is very manageable (that is, both fun -and- avoidable) as long as you're very sedate with the throttle.  It doesn't help that the tires are ten years old Kumho 711's. Tire smoke sure smells nice, though.

I'm going to need to roll the rear fenders for sure.  I could have made the axle narrower, but who does that?! It looks -meaty- just the way I built it.

Speedometer works.  Strangely, it is damn near BANG ON; I never changed the speedo gears.  Calculated RPM at 40km/h should be 1050rpm, I'm seeing about 1100. RPM at 80km/h should be 2100 I'm seeing about 2200.  Clearly, the V8 was supposed to go in this chassis all along.

Springs don't feel as horrible at speed as they feel dead slow. Steering is heavy, but not awful.

Brakes need the master bench-bled. Still air in the lines.

Bought the wrong pipe reducer to run the Firefly temp sender to the gauge, and I don't entirely trust that the cooling fan -will-turn on, but it's much more confidence-inspiring driving it now that it was that first time.

Woo! Woo! Woo! 

Congrats. The interior looks like it's shaping up nicely too- I thought you mentioned not being able to use the center console earlier in the thread, but it looks like it's in there now? Maybe my reading comprehension is lacking. 

I didn't think I could fit the console, but I just trimmed the back bit by bit until it fit the shifter and butted against the dash.  It's actually -covering- the ashtray, radio, and half the heater control openings.

---

The minions have a whole slew of projects that give them experience in everything in the shop.  Metal Level 1's (usually grade 9's, but not always) use the lathe, mill, forge, foundry, stick weld, MIG weld, gas weld, sheet metal, drill press, and plasma cutter.

Drafting Level 1's go through a variety of skill-builders and application projects to make them proficient with AutoCAD, then we design a house.

Mechanics Level 1's (usually grade 11) are working through how the engine works, how to test and rebuild an engine, plus all the engine support systems.

I washed the Firefly today.

Changed the oil pressure gauge sender to an idiot light sender because I don't have a gauge; I have an idiot light.  Nicer to see the light off, rather than varying degrees of brightness.

Changed the temperature gauge sender to the Firefly sender so the Ohmage will be correct.

Bench bled the master cylinder because the brake pedal is still very mushy. I'm out of brake fluid, so I'm going to have to get more.

Pulling it back into the shop I see the check engine light is on.  Code 24 - VSS issue.  Either I forgot to connect the VSS output off the speedo, or the ECU just isn't getting a signal. I don't know if I need the VSS Buffer or not - I didn't wire it in.

CODE 24 
Trouble Code 24 indicates that the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) is not sending the expected (based on other system parameters like LV8, TPS, RPM etc.) signal to the ECM. 
Code 24 will be set if vehicle speed equals zero 0 mph when: 
?   VSS indicates less than 2mph.
?   MAP is less than 30 kPa.
?   Engine speed is between 2200 and 4400 RPM
?   TPS is less than 2%.
?   Not in Park or Neutral
?   No Code 21, 22, 33, or 34.
?   All conditions met for 3 seconds

If the code was logged when the vehicle was in motion, the following should be checked: 
1.   VSS circuit open, shorted to ground, shorted together
2.   Faulty Connections
3.   Defective VSS
4.   Defective ECM
5.   A faulty or misadjusted Park/Neutral (P/N) switch can result in false Code 24.

It could very well be the second scenario - I have the neutral safety switch jumpered.  This would make the ECU think the transmission is in park - and moving at the same time.

I confess I have not tested to see if the VSS built into the Firefly speedometer -actually- works or not, but changing the neutral safety switch is certainly easy.

Nope.  I have to test for a VSS signal.

The Neutral Safety Switch only allows voltage to the starter - has nothing to do with the ECU.

Transmission Gear Selector tells the ECU if you are in Park or Neutral - this is not currently hooked up, so the ECU should never "see" Park or Neutral. This leads me to think it's a VSS issue of some sort.

Some research indicates the VSS Buffer -needs- to be there.  I may be wiring it in soon....

Wired in:

Also connected a cooling fan manual over-ride switch just to be sure it will be cooled.

Also wired up a defrost fan switch.

Also painted the undercarriage in Tremclad Red with a little help of Fiberglass Resin Hardener.

So what is this sub yellow brain you have so neatly wired up? I skipped class that day .

Didn't work.

The yellow box allegedly turns the analog VSS signal into a digital signal and amplifies it so the ECU and speedo and cruise control can use it.

Still getting a code.  I'll have to check and see if the VSS even works next.

Drove it around some more.  It doesn't feel all that fast.  It'll spin the tires with reckless impunity though.

Drove it to work today.

This car is stupid on almost every level.

The 3-cyl tach maxes out at 7000rpm - which is really 2625rpm for me.

Starting my list of things to complete on the car over winter.

Wondering if there's something that can be done with the rear suspension to make it plant the tires a bit better and still turn.  Still seems like an amazing project.

"The 3-cyl tach maxes out at 7000rpm - which is really 2625rpm for me."

I suppose you don't have to tell your passengers that - they can just look over at the dash in amazement.  :)

It does bring up an interesting question, how do you convert a tach signal from a V8 to work with a tachometer set up for a 3 cylinder engine?  Going from an 8 to a 4 isn't a big deal as you can just cut the signal in half, but going from 8 to 3 will require some digital gymnastics.  It's kind of like buying an 8 pack of hot dogs and a 6 pack of hot dog buns, the numbers don't work out.

pres589: The 4-link is reasonably adjustable out back; I'm going to add some anti-squat tonight and see what difference it makes.

stuart in mn: THIS GUY is making me an adapter to run the 8cyl into the 3cyl tach.  I can't really do a good-looking aftermarket tach to suit the cluster without it looking like poo for less money.

Also going to crank the front up a touch - need to find a balance between "cool stance" and "not rubbing on everything."

When i built the tach for the elky, i used the guts from an aftermarket one stuffed into the gauge i wanted to use.

I seriously debated about going that route.  I didn't have an aftermarket tach kicking around, so if I'm spending money anyways....

Raised the front ride height a touch so the tires don't rub crossing every paint stripe.

Also corrected the camber: it was -1.5° on one the right, and -0.5° on the left. Now we're -1.5° both. The tires really tramline, so I'm not worrying about road crown just yet.  The extra camber on the left should rub less.

Caster is close, maybe 0.25° difference.

Also moved the lower links in the 4-link to be horizontal - they were angled down at the front.  It ~seems~ (in the brief drive this evening) to hook up a bit better.  The next step is to drop the front of the upper links down a hole and see what effect it has.

Yesterday I had also noticed what I thought was a touch of detonation.

The VSS isn't working, so it likely isn't turning EGR on.  But I don't know if the ECU is smart enough to NOT advance the timing if the EGR isn't on.  I also (foolishly?) set base timing to 5° instead of 0°. Turned that back down today. Pleasantly, I can leave the wiper motor attached, and only have to remove the air filter to get in there.

The altered 4-link geometry seems better, but it's only slightly so if at all. I may angle the upper links another hole to get still more anti-squat.

Passenger side header collector needs more clearancing from the frame.

Oh, and I bought a rubber trans mount because the "already-had-on-a-shelf-in-the-shop" poly mount is a bit too harsh.

Well today was interesting.

I had bought a new '88 'Bird master cylinder, because I couldn't get a decent pedal with the one in the car and I couldn't find any issue anywhere else in the system. I had bench-bled it like a boss, to no avail.

I spent f-o-r-e-v-e-r bench bleeding it, put it in the car, and found the pedal pushrod would fall out of the back of the piston if I quickly let off the brake, so I reshaped the pushrod so it would stay.

Then I noticed the snap ring in the back had come out, and was now bent.  That was when I noticed that it was in external snap ring used in an internal bore.  So I carefully took the snap ring from my old master and swapped it in.

And then I noticed the bore was leaking.

Grrrr!

So back went the original master, bench bled AGAIN, and strangely - the brake pedal feels much better.

Also noticed my tires are 2005. They also smoke really blue, which isn't as cool as I would like.

Excellent! Are you planning on driving it right until snow falls?

Plates expire mid Oct.  Snow usually flies here around mid Nov.

I think driving this in winter would be an excessive challenge.

Mind you, I did daily a V8 Pinto wagon through winter, way back in the day.  White-knuckles and all.

Annoying driveline vibration hopefully removed by swapping the trans mount back to rubber. It worked in The Crusty Chevy, so it should work here.

Also skinned a bit more of the collector since the exhaust was slapping the frame rails.  Glad I had a 7" angle grinder, the SawZall wasn't enough.

Also spent quite a bit of time trying to persuade the fuel level sender to move - it got stuck at 1/4 tank, so it never read "full".  I changed the lever length so it didn't hit the baffles in the tank, and I'll see if it gets stuck on the top side of 1/4" I ~think~ it's going to work...

Will check fuel economy at the next tank of gas.

My spreadsheet is sitting at $1940US, and I am ~sure~ there are some things unaccounted for (the odd fastener, zap trap, cable clamp, etc.)

Except I sold the Firefly drivetrain for twice what I paid for the car, so I need to put that back ($200CDN).

That makes $2100US.

If I had not broken the dipstick tube, and then bought the pricey one-piece gasket as well as timing cover gasket, front seal, and all that (if you're doing it, might as well do it right, eh?!), I could actually be brought back under budget at $1950!  I could just keep my mouth shut about the whole pan gasket debacle....

And you all gotta know, parts here is pricey in Canadian dollar.  It's often (but not always) cheaper to get parts from the states, but add shipping/exchange/duty/brokerage you often end up paying 50 to 100% more by the time the smoke clears.  If I can get the local jobbers to ~approach~ Rock Auto prices plus shipping, I figure that's pretty good.

I spent a tick over $250 in brake components, which are free. Rotors a HUGE pricey vs Rock Auto (even including shipping), but I was getting into a time-crunch.

Nope, nope. I forgot I officially need a battery.

In other news, a Detroit TrueTrac has been ordered.