Junior_Jose
Junior_Jose New Reader
2/23/15 9:04 p.m.

Someone please help!!!! I have a 1991 CRX si that I am building into a weekend track car. I have a complete set of Yellow Koni Struts and Eibach Sportline springs but the Koni shocks are leaking. I am sure that they will need replacing soon. Think I will replace them while I am finishing up the front suspension installation. I have a budget of 300 bucks to spend on whatever shock/strut/spring combo for the CRX. I think that maybe the Eibach sportline springs are stiff enough to keep, that would mean that I would only need to buy the shock. Anyone have any suggestions?? I am not looking for street or daily driving comfort when deciding on which suspension set up to use.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim UltimaDork
2/23/15 10:22 p.m.

For $300 you're best off saving a little more money and get the Konis rebuilt. Anything else used (and in the $300 range, anything decent will be used) will have a very limited life span and no guarantee that it won't blow up on you sooner rather than later.

In fact the only new option that Tire Rack lists for shocks in your price range are KYB GR-2s, and you really don't want those on a track car.

Oh, and you only want the suspension as stiff as necessary, not stiff for stiff's sake. You need the right balance for your driving style between compliant and too soft.

Junior_Jose
Junior_Jose New Reader
2/23/15 11:59 p.m.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

Cool, thanks for the tips. Guess I'll spend my time researching my options. I spoke to a couple of Honda guys who have tried eibach 900 lbs coil over springs on Lakewood Shocks. Never heard of those shocks to be honest. Where do racers rebuild koni shocks??? I like the idea of rebuilding my shocks.

wbjones
wbjones MegaDork
2/24/15 6:32 a.m.

contact Koni (via e-mail is fine) I've only run into a couple of companies whose customer service / response equals theirs …

they can help you decide how much spring / sway bars with what shocks

(900 # is way more than stock Koni yellows can support ) you can get them re-valved to support pretty much whatever spring combination you want to use

my CRX is a combination track (Time Trials and track days) and autocross (Street Touring) plus it sees some highway miles

I'm running on 450# front and 400# rear on "stock" Koni yellows (with a 7/8" Suspension Techniques rear bar, with a CRX HF front bar)

for me to increase the spring rate much (if any) I'll probably need to have them re-valved to support the higher rate springs

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
2/24/15 7:22 a.m.

+1 for what BoxHeadTim said. Save up and get the Konis rebuilt.

As soon as I saw this thread title I was thinking of something in the 500lb/in ballpark, 900lb/in is insanely hard unless you're running big downforce.

Sonic
Sonic SuperDork
2/24/15 7:45 a.m.

What they all said. Konis are a great shock, and even old konis are better than anything you would get for $300. For springs, Walter is spot on, the CRX is a light car, 900# springs might as well be a block of wood

bravenrace
bravenrace MegaDork
2/24/15 8:30 a.m.

Most competitive CRX autocross cars will run 500/600 lb-in coil overs on Koni's, but that requires re-valving of the Koni's. I run 300/400lb-in springs in mine, because originally it was to be a dual purpose street-autocross car. This combo is barely tolerable on our rough streets. I have since taken the car off the road and will be upgrading to 400/500 lb-in springs for this coming season. IIRC, the Koni's are good for 500 lb-n before needing re-valved.
I've never heard of using 900 lb-in springs, but my buddy used to run 800 lb-in springs on the rear of his ITA CRX, and he was a front runner.

clutchsmoke
clutchsmoke Dork
2/24/15 8:52 a.m.
wbjones wrote: contact Koni (via e-mail is fine) I've only run into a couple of companies whose customer service / response equals theirs … they can help you decide how much spring / sway bars with what shocks (900 # is way more than stock Koni yellows can support ) you can get them re-valved to support pretty much whatever spring combination you want to use my CRX is a combination track (Time Trials and track days) and autocross (Street Touring) plus it sees some highway miles I'm running on 450# front and 400# rear on "stock" Koni yellows (with a 7/8" Suspension Techniques rear bar, with a CRX HF front bar) for me to increase the spring rate much (if any) I'll probably need to have them re-valved to support the higher rate springs

+1 on rebuilding the Konis you already have.

NOHOME
NOHOME UltraDork
2/24/15 9:46 a.m.
Junior_Jose wrote: In reply to BoxheadTim: Cool, thanks for the tips. Guess I'll spend my time researching my options. I spoke to a couple of Honda guys who have tried eibach 900 lbs coil over springs on Lakewood Shocks. Never heard of those shocks to be honest. Where do racers rebuild koni shocks??? I like the idea of rebuilding my shocks.

900# springs will solve all your shock needs because the shocks wont come into play since there will be no movement! In essence you will have built a go-kart.

As Chapman or Yunik said..."Any suspension will work if you don't let it"

I believe that the game is played on the frequency field and there is an optimum frequency for track cars that run on smooth surfaces versus cars that run on less predictable roads. Google up suspension frequency calculator.

wbjones
wbjones MegaDork
2/24/15 10:08 a.m.
bravenrace wrote: Most competitive CRX autocross cars will run 500/600 lb-in coil overs on Koni's, but that requires re-valving of the Koni's. I run 300/400lb-in springs in mine, because originally it was to be a dual purpose street-autocross car. This combo is barely tolerable on our rough streets. I have since taken the car off the road and will be upgrading to 400/500 lb-in springs for this coming season. IIRC, the Koni's are good for 500 lb-n before needing re-valved. I've never heard of using 900 lb-in springs, but my buddy used to run 800 lb-in springs on the rear of his ITA CRX, and he was a front runner.

putting those huge springs in the rear is to help make the car rotate more easily …. but for my purposes I figured the short wheelbase did that for me … I came from an Integra and a Civic … they needed a bit of help rotating … the first event I went to with the CRX I spun 6 or 7 times ( an a-x TnT) … finally learned that I needed to anticipate the rear end stepping out as opposed to waiting for it to start stepping out ... LOL

if you really want stiffer springs, then either get the yellows re-valved or save and get some Koni Reds or 3011's or 3012's

bravenrace
bravenrace MegaDork
2/24/15 10:30 a.m.

In reply to wbjones:

Hey, I'm right there with you on that, as my experience is the same as yours. Just passing on what I know. I do think it has a lot to do with driving style as well.

Junior_Jose
Junior_Jose New Reader
2/24/15 11:12 p.m.

I have sent Koni an email, hopefully I get that settled soon. Now that the discussion of shocks is out the way, what type of spring set up offers a more track friendly ride? Coil overs or eibach sportline springs? What would be better when using the Koni yellow shocks, the coil overs or eibach springs?

wbjones
wbjones MegaDork
2/25/15 6:16 a.m.

coil overs … period … there is a basic formula for building older Honda's

typical build is stiffer rear springs, softer front springs … duh .. LOL

tiny front sway bar, huge 20 - 30 mm rear bar (helps if it's adjustable) with rear sub-frame bracing (so it doesn't get torn out)

you can go other ways, but formula says Ground Control with your choice of springs (Eibach work fine …. just not their package deals … like the sport line) pick your spring rates …. suggestions will range … talk to lots of folk and settle on how much street drivability you want (if any) 400 - 700 range with about 100 lbs between front and rear

that should get you a pretty decently handling Civic … then you can start in on tires and wheels

good luck, your headed down a rabbit hole from which there's no escape … but it's so much fun you won't care

gamby
gamby UltimaDork
3/2/15 12:22 p.m.

I had ~500lb Ground Controls coilover sleeves and stock Koni Yellows on an old EG Civic hatch beater and let's just say my wife wasn't a fan. It was a really stiff setup for a daily driver.

Ground Controls on Koni yellows has been the de-facto setup for "golden age" Hondas for a solid 15+ years.

solfly
solfly Reader
3/3/15 9:22 a.m.

konis and ground controls are always the answer for ef/eg civics. 400-500 pounds, add a big rear bar and be done. i have the spss3s on mine but the off the shelf yellows should work at that rate

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
3/3/15 9:37 a.m.
Junior_Jose wrote: I have sent Koni an email, hopefully I get that settled soon. Now that the discussion of shocks is out the way, what type of spring set up offers a more track friendly ride? Coil overs or eibach sportline springs? What would be better when using the Koni yellow shocks, the coil overs or eibach springs?

Much like my underwear....

Depends.

solfly
solfly Reader
3/4/15 2:24 p.m.

http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/

Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

Subscribe Today

Also get your instant access to the digital edition of Grassroots Motorsports Magazine!

Learn More
NJLPVzcpA9KOec41xg3yYE4d2jJTGn2n