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Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa HalfDork
4/14/20 10:31 p.m.

In reply to Greg Smith (Forum Supporter) :

Welded in frame nut things, from what I remember seeing.

Edit:similar to these https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all18552?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAjwvtX0BRAFEiwAGWJyZMzF8BKDQVaRt9t0x3B9XWGpO4P1TaSIzcrdIJomkMB2hrp9EaxsPRoCXTwQAvD_BwE

maschinenbau (I live here)
maschinenbau (I live here) SuperDork
4/16/20 12:27 p.m.

Here's some more details on the 3D printed line clamps if you'd like to make your own. I'm also happy to share CAD files just message me. Mine are all designed to work with 1/4" bolts, since that's the weld nuts I have on the frame.

These are for 2x 5/16 fuel lines, 1x 3/16 rear brake line, and 1x 3/8 wire harness (totally guessing)

 

I also have these 1x 3/16 front brake lines, and a double 3/16 for where they run together under the body.

 

maschinenbau (I live here)
maschinenbau (I live here) SuperDork
4/19/20 4:46 p.m.

New fuel filter, refreshed and de-featured filter bracket, and a new bracket to mount the filter bracket. 

This is what I'm thinking for parking brake cables. Brand new Explorer cables that loop rearward and merge together at the middle suspension link. Right now they're zip-tied to the link, but I think I can 3D print a bracket to mount them more cleanly. You don't ever see the "loops" of cable once the trunk is mounted. 

If you're familiar with 8.8's, you'll notice the caliper/e-brake brackets are upside-down, meaning the calipers are pointing towards the front of the car and the e-brake cables exit to the rear, opposite of normal. Otherwise I have no good strategy for routing the cables.

And I finally finished the rear brake and fuel lines. I love bending lines. It is such satisfying work. But I also understand why braided hose is so popular.

Above you see the other ends of the parking brake cables. I'll need a bracket under the cab inside the trans tunnel to mount them, then it's just a short length to the hand brake.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
4/20/20 8:36 a.m.

is your fuel tank supported underneath, or is all the weight hanging from those 90-deg tabs on top surface?  that's a clean way to do it, but i fear cracking / tearing around the welds in the top surface.

maschinenbau (I live here)
maschinenbau (I live here) SuperDork
4/20/20 11:38 a.m.

In reply to AngryCorvair :

The latter, and I do too. Luckily it's only 60 lbs of gas and 20 lbs of tank. There's a LOT on this car that will need frequent and thorough inspection. 

wawazat
wawazat HalfDork
4/20/20 11:41 a.m.

That line work is BEAUTIFUL sir!  Very well done indeed!  Inspiring for sure.  

What material are you using for the line clamps?   I’m a plastics guy and started my career in fuel injection and brake line clamps and other bits.  Just wondering.  

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
4/20/20 11:45 a.m.

Well done then.  Carry on!

maschinenbau (I live here)
maschinenbau (I live here) SuperDork
4/20/20 12:29 p.m.

In reply to wawazat :

It's just 3D printed ABS. I've already snapped a few trying to man-handle the lines into place, but now that everything is bent they should hold fine. 

maschinenbau (I live here)
maschinenbau (I live here) SuperDork
4/22/20 7:57 a.m.

Started cleaning up the engine for install. At this stage there is a huge potential for scope creep. On one hand, I would love to get it running N/A so I can start driving it soonest. On the other hand, this build is far beyond "half-ass" at this point. Kind of at a fork in the road. 

As you may recall, this is a non-VVTI 2JZ-GE engine with a W58 5-speed manual. Clutch has already been upgraded to a 6-puck. These early non-VVTi -GE engines share the same "bullet-proof" bottom end - block, crank, rods etc -  with the GTE turbo engine. Compression ratio is 10:1 vs the turbo engine's 8.5:1, due to different head gasket and dished pistons. This engine came from the same donor car as the front suspension parts.

Goals:

  • 350-400 honest-to-goodness dead-nuts-reliable wheel HP
  • Broad power curve, especially in low-end
  • Responsive throttle, minimal lag
  • Something unconventional for a such a unique build

How will I get there?

  • Triple CT12a (1JZ-GTE) turbos
  • ITB's from a BMW M3 S54
  • Standalone ECU, probably MS2 or Microsquirt

Now I know what you're thinking. That sounds crazy. But you made it this far into the build thread, so you're probably into that sort of thing. Some history: I bought 2 sets of 1JZ turbos for $100 a few years ago. The 1JZ-GTE made 280 hp stock with two of them and only 2.5L of displacement. I have 3.0L and 3 of them (1 as backup), so my stupid naive math says 1.5 x 280hp = 420hp which would be more than plenty for me. I scored the BMW ITB's for $43 at my local pull-a-part, a Black Friday junkyard miracle. Folks seem to turbo the S54 all the time, which means these ITB's should work with boost, so it's kinda like having a turbo S54 with a 2JZ bottom end. Right? Right. The S54 ITB's have a very slick-looking vacuum manifold and fuel rail, both made from stainless, so that helps the style points of this build. And style is very important to this build.

Oh and the best part - the port spacing appears to be very similar once you remove the lower intake runners. 

This is truly as far as I have thought this out. I don't really know what I'm doing, so I am open to input, advice, referrals to psych's, etc. Some big questions I have:

How much power are S54 injectors good to? Specs say 260cc/min. That's probably not enough. What will fit in their place?

Will MS2 or Microsquirt support turbo + ITBs aka "blend mode"? I'm ready to buy and I'd love to support DIYautotune since they're local to me. I do have some MS tuning experience and I'm not afraid of wiring.

How berkeleyed is that W58?

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
4/22/20 8:24 a.m.

In reply to maschinenbau (I live here) :

i'd build it NA to start enjoying it, and source another 2JZ for mocking up the turbuenos. 

This thing is going to be so light that I think you're not going to break driveline parts, even on drag radials.

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
4/22/20 8:35 a.m.

I know what I would do, but you do your thing.

 

 

Pete

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
4/22/20 8:58 a.m.
AngryCorvair said:

In reply to maschinenbau (I live here) :

i'd build it NA to start enjoying it, and source another 2JZ for mocking up the turbuenos. 

This thing is going to be so light that I think you're not going to break driveline parts, even on drag radials.

Im with angry. Get it up and running "stock" and shake down all the OTHER issues that  you didn't know about. Then build the power. In other words, eliminate as many variables as possible. 

maschinenbau (I live here)
maschinenbau (I live here) SuperDork
4/22/20 9:30 a.m.

Yall are probably right. There's already enough work in getting the body ready for driving. That N/A intake is just so ugly though!

The biggest "while you're in there" item to do now while the engine is out vs. later would be the oil pan drain modification. I am not 100% sure that I can pull the engine with the body still on. That will only be more difficult to do the more finished the body is. 

java230
java230 UberDork
4/22/20 9:34 a.m.

In reply to maschinenbau (I live here) :

So do the drain fitting now and just cap it? NA with ITB's?

wawazat
wawazat Dork
4/22/20 9:37 a.m.

Agree with the others about getting it running NA.  I'd like to suggest an old school looking set of 6 Crower brushed aluminum intake trumpets/velocity stacks with half-dome mesh screens thru the hood to the throttle bodies.   

wawazat
wawazat Dork
4/22/20 9:39 a.m.


 

But 6 in a row because GO!  Old school looking bits but in an unusual configuration for a hot rod.

maschinenbau (I live here)
maschinenbau (I live here) SuperDork
4/22/20 9:41 a.m.

I can't really run it N/A with the stock ECU/harness unless I keep the original "reach-around" intake. It's the easiest path to getting it running again.

wawazat
wawazat Dork
4/22/20 9:44 a.m.

Machine the plenum to bolt on the BMW throttle bodies and block off original TB hole?

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
4/22/20 9:45 a.m.

with the right colors and some smoothing and wire-tucking, that OE intake will look just fine.  build an air filter housing that looks like a cross between a fender-mount headlight and an old window-mount "swamp cooler" AC to draw attention away from the intake?  i think black block / head / intake, chassis color on valve cover and air filter housing. if i had any art skills i'd draw something up.

wawazat
wawazat Dork
4/22/20 9:46 a.m.

Thanks for clarifying material type.  Nylon and PP are typical OEM fuel system thermoplastics due to fuel and chemical resistance

Mezzanine
Mezzanine Dork
4/22/20 10:05 a.m.

Another voice for getting it running first. 

To put a finer point on it, I'd suggest if you're going the 3 turbo route, don't bother with the ITBs. If you stay NA, then use the ITBs. They're completely unnecessary for your power goals in the turbo case, but pretty cool in in the NA application. 

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/22/20 10:12 a.m.
maschinenbau (I live here) said:

I can't really run it N/A with the stock ECU/harness unless I keep the original "reach-around" intake. It's the easiest path to getting it running again.

Well, if you're after a rat-rod/steam punk sort of theme, perhaps duplicate the OE intake manifold using copper tubing. It seems like you have the fabrication skills to make that work.

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
4/22/20 10:20 a.m.

OK, my reasoning for getting it going NA is that I suspect you will have plenty to keep you busy debugging the car for the fist year. Turbos are a complex system in their own rights and if I had to do the development, I would rather that it be with a known-entity chassis.

 

But yeah, weld the return bung and tap the oil feeds now so you dont have to pull the lup later.

 

The risk, if you want to call it that, is that you might just be plenty happy with the car NA. Vastly overpowered cars have a roller-coaster thrill ride appeal, and mucho bragging rights, but much like roller coasters, how long do you REALLY want to be onboard?

Patrick (Forum Supporter)
Patrick (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/22/20 10:27 a.m.

i'll be the Voice of Dissent

 

If you're going MS anyway, berkeley it do your turbos now.  Too many times I've not gone as far as i wanted because once i "finish" a project i am done and just want to drive it.  

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/22/20 10:27 a.m.

Well, we know the stock s54 injectors are good to 333hp at least... I would hope they can handle a 10ish% overhead to say 350 or 375. Maybe not turbo though, and most definitely not if you're going e85 (by the way, are you going e85?)

Speaking of unconventional - with 3 turbos and ITBs, is there any way to 'time' the runners? like one turbo gets exhaust pulses from the two cylinders that are on exhaust stroke and feeds the two cylinders that are on the intake stroke? I doubt there is any real benefit to that but fun to talk about at car shows.

I do think you should get it driving first stock NA. If nothing else that will make the MS install much easier knowing it ran before...

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