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frenchyd
frenchyd None
4/23/15 9:24 p.m.

After decades of vintage racing I was forced to sell off most of my collection to survive the recession. I'm left with plenty of vintage odds and ends but no whole cars.

How horrible would a created vintage racer be? What clubs would allow me to play?

I have body pieces from an Old TD series MG and engines and suspension pieces from XK-E's Since the track widths are the same on an XK-E and a MGTD it's not nearly as crazy as things sound.. building the chassis to put them together is straight forward work.

I can either use a 3.8 litre engine with a pretty Roots type supercharger hanging off the side (and 3 SU carbs mounted to it) or an old carbureted V12 engine just because it's such a pretty thing.. This is one of the very early ones (1971) with the Jaguar cast into the valve covers rather than the later Decals. OK the V12 is 30 pounds lighter than the cast iron old XK six is. However the supercharged Iron XK would easily make 150 horsepower more than the V12 could with it's 7.8 compression and mild camshafts. The wheels are from Hap Sharps Chaparral mark 1. Troutman and Barns name cast right into them. Since they are actual magnesium I assume they were cast by Halibrand. Put on Jaguar hubs with three eared aluminum knock offs, they have to be worthy just by themselves.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin Dork
4/23/15 9:33 p.m.

I think you should just get building and worry about what to do with it later.

Having said that, it sounds like a special so who is to say it wasn't disassembled 30 years ago and you finally put it back together? I guess most clubs want car counts and would not turn you away.

Toebra
Toebra New Reader
4/23/15 10:52 p.m.

Blower on the straight six, though a V-12 would be awfully cool, and it makes a great noise.

dougie
dougie Reader
4/23/15 10:52 p.m.

Most of the vintage racing groups I run with here on the west coast will allow "specials" to compete, if you have the documentation to show they were made and raced "in the day". This usually means somewhere between the 1930's -1970's.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe SuperDork
4/24/15 11:01 a.m.
bearmtnmartin wrote: I think you should just get building and worry about what to do with it later. Having said that, it sounds like a special so who is to say it wasn't disassembled 30 years ago and you finally put it back together? I guess most clubs want car counts and would not turn you away.

Unless you are running with the supe big money guys they will be fine with it. There are more 23B's registered to race then they ever made and this is way cooler.

Leo  Basile
Leo Basile Reader
4/24/15 5:38 p.m.

You know, it may be fun to create a past history for the car. Something just on the edge of believability such as:

Smiley "dead eye" Jenkings, a punk motorcycle guy from Ohio and Pete "the Lever" DelVecio a New Jersey kid with a great mechanical ablity, who just happens to usually be on the wrong side of the law, meet when they both end up in England at the end of WW2. Dead Eye who only got credit for 4 aerial victorys, the 5th being stolen by his CO, a gentelman racer prior to the war. Lever, his trusty P-51(of course) crewchief also had a few run-ins with Col. Jack Callahan over a local gal near the base.

Fast Forward several years and our heros cross paths at ohhh I dont know, say Penn State to use their GI Bill. Of course by this time in the early 50s sports cars are just starting to take off and they they get the bug to go racin''. So on a limited budget, limited resources, and questionable logistisc supply channels.

You guys see where this is going...

So to make a great story short, they build a special, name it after the local gal in England and take on Col Jack, who happens to race a tricked out XK 150...ect ect ect.

Tell enough people and soon it will not only be believed, but will become fact!

Problem solved.

Cheers, Leo

Leo  Basile
Leo Basile Reader
4/24/15 5:45 p.m.

Or if the timing doesnt work out, you could fast forward to maybe early Viet-Nam, Make Smiley an aggesive gunship driver and Pete once again, his trusty (to some) crew chief.

Leo

gjz30075
gjz30075 Reader
4/24/15 7:32 p.m.

Sounds like the making of another BS Levy book

frenchyd
frenchyd New Reader
4/25/15 10:15 a.m.

In reply to Leo Basile:

I actually tried making up something similar Involving William Lyons, Cecil Kimber, and Hap Sharp. Had the whole story concocted and dates confirmed etc.. So the sharp reader with a smart phone to do fact checking couldn't find a flaw..

My only weakness was finding pictures, programs, or old entry forms etc. to give some validity to the fictional history.

That and old geezers like myself who were actually there and would denounce it simply to sound like a know-it-all.

I suppose I could hire Sir Sterling Moss to be the driver for an event or 2 and that would make the waters just murky enough to maybe get away with it..

Leo  Basile
Leo Basile Reader
4/25/15 11:06 a.m.

Well, as I understand it, the car did go through a couple of body changes and some modifications!

Leo

TeamEvil
TeamEvil Dork
4/26/15 5:00 p.m.

If you have the time/money/parts/energy you should definitely try building the car, if only to sell off or autocross or attend cruise nights and such if you can obtain a title/paperwork to register and insure it.

As for doing any legitimate racing, other than track days and such, you're pretty much doomed. There's no classification for a hybrid like that in the vintage ranks, and any other classes will require considerable safety equipment and upgraded mechanicals to meet current requirements.

I looked into all of this when considering building a "special" around what is left over from my MGA projects and ran into a series of "brick walls" no matter where I went and what classes I considered.

Just nothing around. Everything requires extensive paperwork/log book/prior history etc. or has to be built to current standards and built to meet class requirements.

If you ever come across a loop hole that's real and can be taken advantage of without having to know someone or make something up that will eventually disqualify the car, PLEASE post ! ! !

I'd love to continue on with my project, it was coming along really well.

Luck !

TC

Tom1200
Tom1200 Reader
4/27/15 12:07 a.m.

I will tell you that for some vintage groups have a catch all class, you run the car for fun and basically don't collect points or trophy but who cares if you are having fun.

 Tom
frenchyd
frenchyd New Reader
4/28/15 12:07 p.m.

In reply to TeamEvil: Thanks, The temptation to build a car for one last go is overwhelming at times.. I know that recreated cars exist and are regularly vintage raced. However that is simply lying and since to me at least Vintage racing is about being a gentleman(lady) and lying is not something a gentleman ever does.. I'll choose not to. OH, make no mistake I love to B.S. But I'll be laughing and everyone will know it's pure B.S.

Auto crossing, track days, and the smaller events that are simply looking for car counts might be enough.. However it's going to take thousands of hours and cash

I know the all nighters done in the past won't happen and there is every possibility that the long term dirt nap will get me before I'm finished. Then what? Those neat pieces get hauled off for scrap prices because survivors don't have my vision?

Should I sell everything now and simply bide my time until they light the fire to turn me into a crispy critter? Actuarial tables say I've got 20 years left. That's a long time to twiddle my thumbs.

TeamEvil
TeamEvil Dork
5/1/15 8:14 p.m.

" . . . every possibility that the long term dirt nap will get me before I'm finished."

Same with me, but probably even more so. Once turning 60 I've been getting a bit more conservative in accumulating projects or considering starting new ones. My family is embarrassingly long lived and remain pretty vital until the end. The men ALL went by accidents in their 90's.

Still, how much actual racing is a 60 year old gonna do beyond track days and autocross, you know? My ass would get numb in anything more than five laps . . .

frenchyd
frenchyd New Reader
5/2/15 5:19 p.m.

In reply to TeamEvil: Good point, about the numb butt. However Paul Neuman was well into his 80's and still racing a GT1 Jaguar at the Run-Offs not to mention Running LeMans When I raced in the Bahama's in 1986 one of the drivers was in his 90's. While his MGTC special wasn't as fast as Stirling Moss in his Aston Martin DBR2 or myself in the Blackjackspl. He did an extremely commendable job of avoiding blocking vastly faster cars with 7 times the power while seeming to have a ball.

TeamEvil
TeamEvil Dork
5/2/15 6:37 p.m.

"Paul Neuman was well into his 80's and still racing"

Seriously . . . I am NOT Paul Neuman.

But thanks for the encouragement ! !

Right now I'm waiting to pick up the chassis for the modified MGA which means that I'm still another year or more away from bringing it out into the light. Hopefully I'll be able to begin with an autocross or two when it's completed, sort it (and myself) out and go on from there.

Oh, and how VERY cool to be racing in the Bahamas ! ! !

TC

frenchyd
frenchyd New Reader
5/4/15 10:54 a.m.

In reply to TeamEvil: The really cool part is I could drive the race car, open exhaust, no lights or license etc.. to and from the Hotel.. 6:00 am guests treated to an unmuffled, with megaphones. Starting up and driving off to the pancake house for breakfast.. In the evening just before Dark, "Honey, I'm home"!

TeamEvil
TeamEvil Dork
5/4/15 12:33 p.m.

We field a VW Beetle drag car. It's ALWAYS a ball to get it up on the trailer in the early morning and leave for the strip !

Where it's stored, there is a garage in the back yard of two three decker apartment houses with a long driveway to the street. The sound of the header/megaphones and straight cut gears whining/cackling/booming/reverberating in the canyon of the driveway between the houses is INSANE ! ! !

wspohn
wspohn HalfDork
5/4/15 1:57 p.m.

Most organizations require history and log books. Buy an existing race car that ran in the day and play away. (If you want an MGA Twin Cam, get in touch.....)

frenchyd
frenchyd New Reader
5/7/15 4:26 a.m.

In reply to wspohn: That's the trouble, Buy!!! I don't need to buy to go racing, I've raced since 1968 (and vintage raced since 1975).

At age 67 I'm no longer in the acquisition mode. Frankly I need to reduce and simplify.. {and clean out the garage while I'm at it}. I could take all these neat, historical pieces and make one final "pseudo" vintage racer. Play a little bit and slide into the coffin with a smile on my face.
Don't worry, no one will confuse it with a legitimate vintage race car. For one thing there are too many of us old geezers ready to scream fraud.

HappyAndy
HappyAndy UltraDork
5/7/15 6:38 a.m.
frenchyd wrote: In reply to Leo Basile: I actually tried making up something similar Involving William Lyons, Cecil Kimber, and Hap Sharp. Had the whole story concocted and dates confirmed etc.. So the sharp reader with a smart phone to do fact checking couldn't find a flaw.. My only weakness was finding pictures, programs, or old entry forms etc. to give some validity to the fictional history.

Documents, and some of the spare parts were lost in a fire in 1961.

frenchyd
frenchyd New Reader
5/8/15 9:44 a.m.

In reply to HappyAndy: That's exactly the story I'll tell next time I'm sitting around the campfire after everyone's consumed far too much alcohol. I'd appreciate it if you did the same, maybe we can get some of us foggy minded old codgers to believe it. Oh and by the way you got any story you'd like spread?

Leo  Basile
Leo Basile Reader
5/8/15 3:12 p.m.

In all seriousness, I didnt have to prove anything with my Cooper. No pics, no books, no data tag.

But at the end of the day, regardless of the lack of history, its still a Cooper.

Leo

Rupert
Rupert Dork
5/12/15 11:35 a.m.

You folks need to read STAND ON IT by Stroker Ace!

frenchyd
frenchyd HalfDork
6/16/17 2:07 a.m.
Rupert wrote: You folks need to read STAND ON IT by Stroker Ace!

Of Course we've read it.. I've got all of BS Levy's books

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