Hoosier Street TD tires ... how do they compare?

I'm considering running with SVRA next season. Looks like my car would be classed in Group 8. According to the rule book, I'm allowed to use one of 3 specified tires...but the only one available in my size is the Hooser Street TD. This is a bias-ply tire, and I'm aware that they require a different set-up (less camber) and driving style (more sliding around). I'm OK with both of those things.

However, the tire rules also say we can use "any treaded, DOT approved tires with a UTQG of 100 or greater." The way I read it, that means I should be able to use the Toyo RA-1. I can't find any other DOT-R tire that meets both criteria.

So, which would you choose? Any experience with the Hoosier Street TD?

You could also consider the Nitto NT-01.

In reply to David S. Wallens:

I'm not sure if the NT-01 is in the spirit of the rules. Same for the Toyo R888 and R888R. These are all technically treaded tires with a UTQG of 100. However, after talking to a couple of folks who race with SVRA, they seem to want tires that "look" like conventional street tires. In other words, traditional, small tread patterns rather than large blocks of rubber with a few grooves cut in.

But let's say these tires will qualify. Are lower end DOT-R radials better than Hoosier Street TD bias plys?

Yeah, the Toyo and Nitto tires don't look vintagey. I have a lot of miles on the Nittos. They're easy to drive and manage. I have used them on the street, too.

LanEvo I've been running Hoosier Street TDs for a few seasons now on my Datsun 1200. Some of my experience may be anecdotal. First I was previously run various Yokohamas over the past 25 years from the old A008s to Advan 048s.

I carry more corner speed than most of the poeple I'm on track with so I'm not losing out to competitors who are on radials. Due note some of this could be down to my driving.

On the subject of driving, the car moves around a lot on the bias ply tires vs radials. I personally find them to be highly predictable but do keep in mind as an ex motorcycle road racer I'm very comfortable with a lot of tire squirm and both ends of the vehicle sliding around at the same time. Note I also run a medium to low speed track (corners vary from 35-90mph) and the car is set up with a bit of oversteer. The car is gutless 1656 with 105 whp so I want it to keep rotating so I can keep my foot to the floor and run as little steering lock as possible.

There are several differences the first of which as you noted is set up; camber is only -1 to -1.5 max. Next the bias ply is lighter on my 185/60-13s they are 3 pounds lighter per tire than the radial tire. You will also need to check the gearing as the tires tend to be very short; the Street TD is 20.6 were a 185/60-13 is something like 22" tall so there is obviously going to be a big change in gearing.

Finally I'd make the decision based on what group you will run the most with; if it's mostly vintage than you having to change the set up for bias ply tires would be ok. 100 tread wear is rather hard relative to race tires including the TDs but if you are not intending to be an absolute front runner I don't think you be giving up huge amounts of lap time. The TDs are going to need a camber change and possibly gearing changes as well so again I'd likely stick to a radial.

Tom

Thank you so much, Tom. I really appreciate the insight!

The problem is, I run with two groups: BMW CCA Club Racing and vintage racing with VARAC (and now SVRA).

With the CCA, I generally run high end R-comps (either Hoosier R7 or Hankook Z214) to keep up with the guys in M3T-class E30 M3's.

The question is, when running with the vintage groups, should I change my setup to work with Hoosier TD's ... or just move down to a really low end DOT-R radial like the Toyo RA-1. My suspicion is that the TD will be faster than the RA-1. But if there isn't a big difference, then I won't bother changing the setup to accommodate them.

You're talking about your M-B 16V, right? From what I understand, the Hoosier is meant for cars a fair bit older than that. IMO, the NT-01 would "fit" the look of your car and thus be in the spirit of the rules.

Ian F wrote: You're talking about your M-B 16V, right? From what I understand, the Hoosier is meant for cars a fair bit older than that. IMO, the NT-01 would "fit" the look of your car and thus be in the spirit of the rules.

So, we're kind of back to the same question: do low-end DOT-R radials (like the NT-01) have more grip than the Hooser Street TD?

Not sure. Finding info about the Hoosier Street TD is proving difficult.

To the CMS folks: Did the magazine ever to a vintage race tire comparison?

Yeah, I'm not having any luck finding any info about the Hoosier TDs.

I think I'll just try them. I can't imagine they would have less grip than the RA-1. I have some experience with the C3000 cantilever, bias-ply slicks. Significantly more grip than the Hankook Z214 and Hoosier R6/R7 radials I usually run. I'm sure the compound and construction of the Street TD isn't the same as the C3000 slicks ... but how bad could they be, right?

The Hoosier TDs will be faster than the lower end R-comp tires. The vintage group I run with allows the top flight R compound tires and I'm not giving up any corner speed to them. They should be close to the Hoosiers you run now.

As for the set up changes, you should be able to mark the camber plates to make the change between the radials and bias ply tires.

Your tire guys should be able to give you tire pressures and camber settings.

Tom

Ian F wrote: To the CMS folks: Did the magazine ever to a vintage race tire comparison?

That would be a really interesting read. How good IS the stuff from Coker, for example?

I autocrossed one weekend back in 2006 or 2007 on a set of Hoosier TD tires that I borrowed from a vintage racing friend. These were tiny tires for 10" rims to use on my Mini. They were a little tricky to autocross as they needed some heat. I think I ended up spinning on my first two runs. In the end, once they got some heat in them, they were sticker than the Yokohama A008 tires I was used to running.

I've been using Street TDs for 10 years on my 63 Spitfire road race only car and I like them. I can't give a comparison to radial tires, the only other tires I've had on the car were Hoosier bias ply slicks (when I was running in SCCA H Production class). The slicks were 4-5 seconds a lap faster at a twisty track (Limerock for example) but also 3" wider tires in the back.

The TDs wear well and evenly, performance will gradually drop off. I do 6-7 race weekends a year and I generally get two seasons from a set. I'm in mid pack at most large events but my lap times stay consistent from year to year. The tires still have tread but they are noticeably harder after that many heat cycles.

They're OK as an intermediate rain tire but standing water pools will require dedicated rains. Just about every vintage group will accept Street TDs for their events although one group I know thinks they're too sticky and overload the old (pre 1960 cars) suspensions.

In the Spitfire I run 3 degrees camber in the front and 4.5 degrees in the back. That results in (IR surface measured, not internal probe) 130 degree temps across the tires.

mike h