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BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
6/28/17 1:58 p.m.

Engine bay warms up, fluid thins out, seals distort, etc. Personally I just distrust any rubber containing brake parts over 20 years old.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
6/28/17 7:05 p.m.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

Valid point. I have no idea how old this M/C is. And since it is a single, we'll, it's pretty critical that it work correctly. Guess I ought to just plunk down the C-note and buy the new one.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
6/28/17 9:03 p.m.

Wow, you weren't kidding, $105 from the first hit google pulled up.

http://www.welshent.com/product_info.php?sku=64967012&name=Brake_Master_Cylinder_-_MK1_MK2_3-8S&cPath=387_397_398

Though I must say that looks a lot like a $50 Wilwood master cylinder that's probably of better quality, assuming the right bore size is available.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/260-6089/10002/-1

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
6/29/17 6:40 a.m.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

Good thought, but the Jag master is a 7/8" bore. The Wilwood is a 3/4. Plus, I'd need to know how the rod mates up, the sizes of the fittings, etc.

I could either go with this...

Or this.

Unfortunately, XKS has a $25 minimum order. I've had pretty good luck rebuilding hydraulic cylinders.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
6/29/17 10:48 a.m.
volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
6/29/17 1:00 p.m.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

Sweet- thanks for the legwork, me amigo. I owe you a beer sometime.

Aw, hell. It's almost Friday.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
6/29/17 1:53 p.m.

No problem man, you get good at that if you spend much time playing with a car made in a country that no longer exists.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
6/30/17 7:23 a.m.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

I hear ya. I'm still weirded out by the fact that Volvo is owned by an Indian company now.

New master ordered, for peace of mind. Fancy rotors ordered (somehow I have to order two...anyone else here need one?) and meanwhile the NAPA rotor (which was indeed riveted) is installed. I put some superglue around the edges of the metal where it contacts the Bakelite, in hopes that may help add some strength. Even straight out of the box, the rotor metallic strip had a little play in it where it rotated around the rivet slightly.

Maybe I'll get a chance to take another test drive this weekend. Not much left to do on her now, other than driving and dialing in. I set the dwell to 34 degrees and the timing is basically as far advanced as I can get it and still have it start easily. Man does it get up and go!

Basil Exposition
Basil Exposition SuperDork
6/30/17 9:01 a.m.
volvoclearinghouse wrote: In reply to BrokenYugo: I hear ya. I'm still weirded out by the fact that Volvo is owned by an Indian company now. New master ordered, for peace of mind. Fancy rotors ordered (somehow I have to order two...anyone else here need one?) and meanwhile the NAPA rotor (which was indeed riveted) is installed. I put some superglue around the edges of the metal where it contacts the Bakelite, in hopes that may help add some strength. Even straight out of the box, the rotor metallic strip had a little play in it where it rotated around the rivet slightly. Maybe I'll get a chance to take another test drive this weekend. Not much left to do on her now, other than driving and dialing in. I set the dwell to 34 degrees and the timing is basically as far advanced as I can get it and still have it start easily. Man does it get up and go!

I could use one of those rotors. PM'd you with address.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
7/3/17 6:04 a.m.

In reply to Basil Exposition:

Rotors have arrived. I'll post one off to you this week.

In other news, I oiled the distributor under the little center screw, put it all back together with the proper dwell (30-35 degrees), timing advanced as far as I could get it and still have the engine turn over and start reliably, and took it for a drive, about 5 miles.

Brakes worked fine, engine pulled strongly...up until about 3800 RPM or so (indicated by the Smiths tach) when it seemed like it hit a wall. Instant stumble and lack of any further acceleration. This was in 2nd gear, so I upshifted to 3rd, and after an initial hesitation, it picked back up again and pulled hard. No pinging ever even under low RPM accelerations in 3rd and 4th gear. (last tank-up was 93 octane Exxon)

Temperature on the gauge got up to just a tick over 70 degrees C.

Very strange. I'm not completely convinced the tach is accurate. It feels like an ignition cut-out, but then, I'm not 100% on the fuel system, either.

When I got home I checked the rear hubs and everything seemed cool. Literally. Bleeding the brakes, relocating the exhaust, and running the proper size of tire seems to have helped.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair UltimaDork
7/3/17 11:10 p.m.

Piece of crud blocking main jet temporarily?

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
7/4/17 7:22 a.m.

In reply to AngryCorvair:

Possible. I cleaned out the glass bowl fuel separator dealie but there's still no in-line filter. Been meaning to stab one in there...

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
7/5/17 7:07 a.m.

On Independence Day I went out to the Jag and started disconnecting fuel lines. First, there was no fuel pumping through the regulator that I'd installed after the glass bowl separator. So I thought the regulator might be bad. Spent a few minutes adjusting it up and down, but no fuel came through. The fuel bowl had gasoline in it, but disconnecting that gave no flow, either. Nor did disconnecting the input of the bowl. Finally, I went back to the electric pump (in the trunk) and disconnected the line coming from that...and fuel flowed out readily as it pumped.

I blew out the fuel line from trunk to fuel bowl in the factory approved method (which is similar to the pressure bleeding procedure, previous page ) and decided to put a filter right after the pump, in the trunk, before attempting anything else.

Going to procure said filter post-work today...

Basil Exposition
Basil Exposition SuperDork
7/5/17 9:29 a.m.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

Thanks for the rotor.

Remember, 90% of the problems with SU carbs are ignition related.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
7/10/17 6:56 a.m.
Basil Exposition wrote: In reply to volvoclearinghouse: Thanks for the rotor. Remember, 90% of the problems with SU carbs are ignition related.

And I have been delinquent...I will get said rotor in the mail to you tomorrow. I'm sorry for the delay.

This weekend I swapped the master cylinder, spliced a fuel filter into the 3/8" line coming out of the pump in the trunk, and took another test drive- this time about 10 miles. The engine starts and runs very well, and revs fine- but still sputters out right above 3800 RPM or so. One thing I noticed, however- if I rev it in 2nd right up to the sputtering point, then quickly upshift to 3rd and give it hefty throttle, it still sputters for a second or so until it "catches up". So, I'm thinking it may be fuel related. If it were ignition, it should be completely RPM related.

The pump is not the stock SU pump- those are long gone, and replaced by some cheap, janky-looking aftermarket pumps. One of the first projects I did on the car was to install a fuel regulator and gauge at the carbs, and I've noticed that, even with the screw turned all the way in at the regulator, it won't build more than 2 or 3 psi of pressure. I know that's all the SUs need, but I'm thinking at high RPMs/ throttle angles the pump may not be able to keep up.

I also noticed a pretty hefty-looking drip at the input shaft of the rear end center section. Looks like the seal there will need to be replaced.

NOHOME
NOHOME UltimaDork
7/12/17 10:00 a.m.
Basil Exposition wrote: In reply to volvoclearinghouse: Thanks for the rotor. Remember, 90% of the problems with SU carbs are ignition related.

Actually, while that is still a thing, what I have found over the last few years is that the majority of issues with SU carbs is that the float levels are set wrong.

For reasons that are too vauge for me to care about, the book method of setting the float level does not seem to be consistent or accurate.

I now set SU float levels by looking down in to the jet with the choke in the full on position and the jet down 12 flats on the adjuster. When the fuel is just over the retracted jet you are good to go. This should coincide with the 1/8" rod under the float method, but it often does not.

The final check is to use a small diameter tube and blow a puff of air directly into the jet (choke off bell removed) and watch as the fuel bounces back. If the fuel JUST drivels over the bridge, then you are good. If it fails to get over the top or floods the bridge, then you need to adjust up or down on the float level.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
7/17/17 5:30 a.m.

Driving Miss VCH.

Her first ride in the Jag...actually, the first time anyone other than yours truly has ridden in it (as Mrs. VCH pointed out the next morning). Saturday night being excellent weather for a cruise, I tossed the fuel jugs in the trunk and we motored down to the pumps to get some gas for the lawn tractor. She loved riding in the car, especially when we took off from a light and accelerated- the mufflers have some holes in them, so it makes - to her ear, anyway - race car noises.

When we got home it was her bedtime, so I left the Jag parked outside. Yesterday afternoon I finally got around to shuffling it back into its spot in the lean-to / carport, but decided to take it for a quick blast up the street and back- the usual test circuit. As it had been a bit cantankerous to start lately, and pinging lightly on hard accelerations, I dialed the timing back a hair before I left. It started right up, but about 1/4 mile out of the driveway began to sputter. I found some clear shoulder and rolled to a stop, about 1/2 mile from home. No amount of cranking would revive the engine.

I took stock of the situation- I had no tools, no phone, and no wallet. Brilliant.

Just then a fellow came by in his truck and rolled down the window to ask if I needed help. Before I could say much of anything he had hopped out and was under the hood with me. After a few minutes, we discovered there was no fuel getting to the carbs. I thought it might be out of gas, so he drove me home to get my jerry can. His wife and two toddler-aged daughters were in the truck with him- and his wife got in the back seat when I got in the truck! They were all super nice and helpful. I asked if I was putting them out- he said no, they were just going to a friend's house to drop off some Jeep doors. !! Ah ha- a fellow car nut! We chatted a bit- he had a YJ with an LS-swap, and his wife (who had the same name as my wife) had a newer Shelby Mustang.

We got back to the Jag with the fuel but it still would not start. In checking under the hood, I popped the distributor cap and found the (new, Napa) rotor cracked into pieces. Not wanting to take any more advantage of my gracious assistance, I rode with them back to my house (they were going that way, anyway) grabbed the new Red Rotor, aired up the tires on my bike, and rode back to the car to pop in the new rotor.

Success! The Jag fired up! The bike wouldn't fit in the shallow trunk, so I left it on the shoulder and peeled rubber back home. As I pulled in the driveway, there stood Mrs. VCH, a look of concerned impatience across her visage. I quickly explained what had happened, and went to back the car back into it's parking spot...and the engine died again. It wouldn't crank up, so I left it there, hopped into my Mercedes 240D and went to retrieve my bike.

SO...pretty sure I need a new fuel pump. The stock pumps are long gone, the Jag currently has some aftermarket parts store special cheapies. Since I have an adjustable regulator plumbed in already, I'm thinking some decent aftermarket pump should work. Any recommendations? I'm not going with a stock pump- last I checked I think XJS wanted $300 or more for one.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
7/17/17 5:50 a.m.
Basil Exposition
Basil Exposition SuperDork
7/17/17 7:04 a.m.
volvoclearinghouse wrote: This dealie ought to work just fine.

+1 on that. SUs can't/won't take much pressure. I've also used a red Holley with a pressure regulator, mostly 'cause the Holley can be rebuilt, but that might be overkill in your case.

Those rotors really suck, don't they? I'd like to blow up the plant where they made those things. Me and thousands of other British car owners.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
7/17/17 8:31 p.m.

Carter pump ordered. I checked and my local NAPA did carry it, but they wanted over double what Summit had it listed for. I prefer to support the local economy, but I can't justify that kind of a mark-up. So, it'll be here in a day or two.

I'm fairly certain that this was a fuel-related issue that just happened to coincide with the rotor cracking. Odd as that may seem. The pump was barely making any pressure or flow, even with 2 more gallons of fuel added to the tank.

In our attempts to get the car home, we disconnected the electric pump from the other (dead) fuel tank and hooked it up to the good tank. That seemed to work, at least to get the car home- though we had to plug the line formerly connected to that pump as the fuel seemed to run out without a pump connected to it - guessing there was no check valve between the tanks?

frenchyd
frenchyd HalfDork
7/22/17 1:43 a.m.
volvoclearinghouse wrote: Driving Miss VCH. Her first ride in the Jag...actually, the first time _anyone_ other than yours truly has ridden in it (as Mrs. VCH pointed out the next morning). Saturday night being excellent weather for a cruise, I tossed the fuel jugs in the trunk and we motored down to the pumps to get some gas for the lawn tractor. She loved riding in the car, especially when we took off from a light and accelerated- the mufflers have some holes in them, so it makes - to her ear, anyway - race car noises. When we got home it was her bedtime, so I left the Jag parked outside. Yesterday afternoon I finally got around to shuffling it back into its spot in the lean-to / carport, but decided to take it for a quick blast up the street and back- the usual test circuit. As it had been a bit cantankerous to start lately, and pinging lightly on hard accelerations, I dialed the timing back a hair before I left. It started right up, but about 1/4 mile out of the driveway began to sputter. I found some clear shoulder and rolled to a stop, about 1/2 mile from home. No amount of cranking would revive the engine. I took stock of the situation- I had no tools, no phone, and no wallet. Brilliant. Just then a fellow came by in his truck and rolled down the window to ask if I needed help. Before I could say much of anything he had hopped out and was under the hood with me. After a few minutes, we discovered there was no fuel getting to the carbs. I thought it might be out of gas, so he drove me home to get my jerry can. His wife and two toddler-aged daughters were in the truck with him- and his wife got in the back seat when I got in the truck! They were all super nice and helpful. I asked if I was putting them out- he said no, they were just going to a friend's house to drop off some Jeep doors. !! Ah ha- a fellow car nut! We chatted a bit- he had a YJ with an LS-swap, and his wife (who had the same name as my wife) had a newer Shelby Mustang. We got back to the Jag with the fuel but it still would not start. In checking under the hood, I popped the distributor cap and found the (new, Napa) rotor cracked into pieces. Not wanting to take any more advantage of my gracious assistance, I rode with them back to my house (they were going that way, anyway) grabbed the new Red Rotor, aired up the tires on my bike, and rode back to the car to pop in the new rotor. Success! The Jag fired up! The bike wouldn't fit in the shallow trunk, so I left it on the shoulder and peeled rubber back home. As I pulled in the driveway, there stood Mrs. VCH, a look of concerned impatience across her visage. I quickly explained what had happened, and went to back the car back into it's parking spot...and the engine died again. It wouldn't crank up, so I left it there, hopped into my Mercedes 240D and went to retrieve my bike. SO...pretty sure I need a new fuel pump. The stock pumps are long gone, the Jag currently has some aftermarket parts store special cheapies. Since I have an adjustable regulator plumbed in already, I'm thinking some decent aftermarket pump should work. Any recommendations? I'm not going with a stock pump- last I checked I think XJS wanted $300 or more for one.

Please don't replace the fuel pump.. First a Carter will need to be adapted and second the pressure is probably too high and third SU fuel pumps can be made reliable!!!!!!!

Here's how.

First pop the cover off it..(unscrew the knurled nut) and remove the plastic cover. Next taking some extremely fine grit 400,600,1000 grit make a strip of doubled over sand paper about 1/4 inch wide and maybe three inches long. Now pull it through the contact points.. Make sure the points are shiny but don't get crazy or you will have to re-gap the points. Next, see the springs on the side? Put a drop or two of engine oil on each pivot point.. That might have taken you 10 minutes the first time. Less as you get familiar and don't need to hunt up fine grit sandpaper.. If you do it a couple of times a year your SU fuel pump will last as long as mine has.. 30-40 years and still going strong...

Why does SU have a bad reputation for reliability? Because a mechanic can't make as much profit cleaning points as he can selling a new one..

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
7/22/17 8:57 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd:

I think you missed the part where the stock Jag pumps are already long gone.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
8/3/17 7:11 a.m.

So it's been a little while since I made an update here. That's not for lack of progress, simply for lack of posting - and because I keep forgetting my camera in the garage.

The Carter pump is installed, and works great. I had so much faith in the fix that I loaded not only my daughter, but also my mother, into the car to make a short trip to a local park. And it didn't leave us stranded! I think my mom even enjoyed being "chauffeured" in such a fine, luxury automobile. She didn't even complain when I had to blow the cobwebs out of the exhaust in 2nd gear.

Of course, when we got home, I went to put the car back in the garage, and it stalled. Out of gas!

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
8/4/17 5:31 a.m.

The new fuel pump, installed in the driver's rear trunk compartment, just above the fuel tank on that side:

Fits pretty well, and doesn't look out of place. The filter came with the pump. It even came with that black P-clamp, which installed onto one of the posts for the old SU pump.

This was what had been living there previously, one of those "cube" style fuel pumps:

frenchyd
frenchyd HalfDork
8/6/17 7:05 a.m.
volvoclearinghouse wrote: In reply to frenchyd: I think you missed the part where the stock Jag pumps are already long gone.

Yes I did miss it, too bad, another victim of lets make more profit by selling a new fuel pump rather than doing the proper maintenance.

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