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Light, Fuel-Driven Car Goes For 100 Mpg X Prize
Lynchburg, Va., is an old river town with a population of fewer than 75,000 people. It's not the kind of place you'd expect to produce a 21st-century car, but entrepreneur Oliver Kuttner thought it was perfect.
More at the link. He's using some of the ideas we advocate here. Simplicity, lightweight, and innovative ideas like cameras instead of drag inducing side mirrors.
What do you guys think? Would you buy one? Double the mpg of a CRX HF.
Can we put an LS1 in it?
Kind of defeats the purpose. But hey, knock yourself out!
My browser will not display car articles that do not include 0-60 times, lateral-g figures, top speed, and times around the 'Ring. Sorry.
I dont let fat chicks ride in my truck due to the loss of fuel economy.
7 seconds 0-60 is pretty good, I wonder how much boost they are running and if the 250cc single is motorcycle based?
http://www.edison2.com I forgot to put this in my post
Thanks for the link PilotBraden. I didn't realize it was a single cylinder motor that is turbocharged and running on E85.
More info on the engine, no mention of boost levels though.
Edison2 Blog said:The alcohol fuel is “most effective in very, very high-performance engines,” he said. “We can run a lot of static compression.” Indeed, the 15.0:1 ratio is high. There’s also a heavy emphasis on exhaust-gas recirculation, which helps to reduce emissions. Pumping losses are diminished because the throttle is generally wide open. The turbo allows for a variable output, but this is limited to 40 hp.
Anyone else see this line in their promo?
While our X Prize cars have carbon-fiber bodies, the production models will rely mostly on readily available and fully recyclable aluminum and steel.
I wonder how much the weight increase- so that it can still meet the crash requirements vs. the CF tub- will change the fuel economy....
I like how they say, on their website, "The Very Light Car is light because it is light"
^lol.
Would i buy one? No.. Would i own one? Yes. I would ride a 250cc bike for mileage reasons IF NOT for the safety issue. So, the next best thing for me is the 1800 lb Honda Insight i drive.. A car like the one shown here is just another step down that road, but still much safer than a motorcycle, and much faster than my Insight, with better MPG.
But, like my Insight, id have to wait until it got down around $4k before buying one 
what the hell does it mean when it says that it "gets the equivalent of 100mpg"? either it gets 100mpg, or it doesn't.
are they maybe playing some mathematical number games- it gets 100mpg per gallon of gasoline, but runs on E85, which is only 15% gasoline.
i used to play that game when bragging about how well my 84 T Type runs on 50% E85 (which comes out to close to 50% ethanol when blended with the E10 that we have at the pumps)- i was getting 16mpg on the E85 blend, but when i did the math i was getting 30+ miles per gallon of gasoline. some people were impressed...
novaderrik wrote: are they maybe playing some mathematical number games- it gets 100mpg per gallon of gasoline, but runs on E85, which is only 15% gasoline.
In terms of CAFE, that is how it works- you only count the gasoline.
Ever wonder why you see so many flex fuel cars and so little E85?
That seems like a crock then.
alfadriver wrote:novaderrik wrote: are they maybe playing some mathematical number games- it gets 100mpg per gallon of gasoline, but runs on E85, which is only 15% gasoline.In terms of CAFE, that is how it works- you only count the gasoline.
CAFE != X-prize standards
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equivalentThe miles per gallon gasoline equivalent is based on the energy content of gasoline. The energy obtainable from burning one US gallon is 115,000 BTU. Thus one mile per gallon gasoline equivalent is equal to 115,000 BTU per mile.[1] For alternative fuels, energy required to manufacture the fuel may also be considered. To convert the mile per gallon rating into other units of distance per unit energy used, the mile per gallon value can be multiplied by one of the following factors to obtain other units:
1 MPGE = 1/115,000 miles/BTU ≈ 1/33.7032 miles/kW·h ≈ 1/20.9422 km/kW·h ≈ 1/75.3919 km/MJConversion to MPGE
MPGE is determined by converting the vehicle consumption per unit distance, as determined through computer modeling or completion of an actual driving cycle, from its native units into a gasoline energy equivalent. Examples of native units include W·h for electric vehicles, kg-H2 for hydrogen vehicles, gallons for biodiesel vehicles, cubic feet for compressed natural gas, pounds for propane or Liquefied petroleum gas vehicles, and gallons for liquefied natural gas vehicles. Overall energy consumption for the vehicle would include the energy used in the production of whatever energy carrier is used for the vehicle. For example, with electrically powered vehicles, overall energy consumption must include the efficiency factor for conversion of primary fuels into electricity.
z31maniac wrote:That seems is a crock then.
Fixed it for you. Just what I expect out of my government though.
It looks like the Aptera. I wonder who thought of the design first?
The X-prize doesn't use some bogus calculation of "MPG" that counts gasoline but ignores all the other sources of non-gasoline energy that you use. (GM does that with the Chevy Volt.) The X-prize does it right. The calculation is based on ALL the energy that is used.
novaderrik wrote:what the hell does it mean when it says that it "gets the equivalent of 100mpg"? either it gets 100mpg, or it doesn't.
are they maybe playing some mathematical number games- it gets 100mpg per gallon of gasoline, but runs on E85, which is only 15% gasoline.
A gallon of alcohol has less energy than a gallon of of gasoline. A gallon of hydrogen has far less than either of them. A "gallon of battery power" is a nonsense measurement like "aardvarks per cubic furlong". MPGe lets you compare any fuel or propulsion source.
MPGe looks at the total amount of energy - of all forms - needed to move a car. They calculate that, then divide the total energy by the amount that is in a a gallon of gasoline. MPGe lets you make an apples-to-apples comparison of the energy used by alternative fuel cars and gas cars.
JoeyM wrote:The X-prize doesn't use some bogus calculation of "MPG" that counts gasoline but ignores all the other sources of non-gasoline energy that you use. (GM does that with the Chevy Volt.) The X-prize does it right. The calculation is based on ALL the energy that is used.
novaderrik wrote:what the hell does it mean when it says that it "gets the equivalent of 100mpg"? either it gets 100mpg, or it doesn't.
are they maybe playing some mathematical number games- it gets 100mpg per gallon of gasoline, but runs on E85, which is only 15% gasoline.
A gallon of alcohol has less energy than a gallon of of gasoline. A gallon of hydrogen has far less than either of them. A "gallon of battery power" is a nonsense measurement like "aardvarks per cubic furlong". MPGe lets you compare any fuel or propulsion source.
MPGe looks at the total amount of energy - of all forms - needed to move a car. They calculate that, then divide the total energy by the amount that is in a a gallon of gasoline. MPGe lets you make an apples-to-apples comparison of the energy used by alternative fuel cars and gas cars.
i just go by the cost per mile. when i was running various blends of E85 in my T Type, i'd keep track of how much i spent fueling the thing and divide that by the miles travelled.
really, that's the only number that really matters.
with E85 in that particluar car, the miles per gallon would drop from 17 down to 14 if i ran straight E85. but if i went with 50% E85 and 50% 87 octane, the mileage would go back up to 17- but my cost per mile was lower thanks to the lower cost of the E85.
JoeyM, that's all well and good, but I want to know what the car ACTUALLY gets driving down the highway.
That's a more fair comparison to other cars on the road.
could be a VERY cool little commuter car without the stigma of driving the smart.
I find some of the comments on that site scary that a LOT of people still equate size with safety
JoeyM wrote:The X-prize doesn't use some bogus calculation of "MPG" that counts gasoline but ignores all the other sources of non-gasoline energy that you use. (GM does that with the Chevy Volt.) The X-prize does it right. The calculation is based on ALL the energy that is used.
A gallon of alcohol has less energy than a gallon of of gasoline. A gallon of hydrogen has far less than either of them. A "gallon of battery power" is a nonsense measurement like "aardvarks per cubic furlong". MPGe lets you compare any fuel or propulsion source.
MPGe looks at the total amount of energy - of all forms - needed to move a car. They calculate that, then divide the total energy by the amount that is in a a gallon of gasoline. MPGe lets you make an apples-to-apples comparison of the energy used by alternative fuel cars and gas cars.
They should also factor in the energy it takes to make that energy.
H2 is pretty energy intensive to make. Ethanol- energy intensive. Gas just consumes it's source to make.
Especially with Ethanol- the source is very important.
So it sounds like MPGe does not actually look at the TOTAL AMOUNT of energy in all forms- since it takes energy to make energy.
But since this is just a stunt, then I wouldn't expect them to be really honest.
Very Light Car looks interesting, but unfortunately GRM is a collective group of cheapasses who would rather buy a clapped out CRX HF
JoeyM wrote: - but my cost per mile was lower thanks to the lower cost of the E85.
You sure about that? If you pay taxes, then you've subsidized the cost of ethanol in order to keep it "cheap."
"In Texas, a report from the Rice University’s Baker Institute for Public Policy concluded that “based on the latest available US GAO data, which is for the year 2008, the US government spent $4 billion in subsidies to replace about 2 percent of the US gasoline supply. The average cost to taxpayers for these “substituted” traditional gasoline barrels was roughly $82 per barrel, or $1.95 per gallon on top of the gasoline retail price"
full article: http://www.rice.edu/nationalmedia/news2010-01-06-biofuels.shtml
maybe run it on LPG?
