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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » 14" Street & AutoX Tires: Azenis or RS2 or ??

March 15, 2009 8:43 p.m. cghstang New Reader

So I did my first autocross on Saturday in my beater SE-R. It was a test and tune with some informal instruction and I had a great time; 20+ runs and plenty of excitement (corvette off-track excursion).

While I had fun sliding around on my generic 175/65-R14 all season pizza cutters, I realized after riding with some other people on ST tires what I was missing out on. Which leads me to my question:

For a daily driven, stock suspension '91 SE-R, which tire would be the "better" summer/occasional autox tires: Hankook RS2 or Falken Azenis 615 ?? (195/60-R14 for both)

I put around 1k miles a month on the car and plan to attend 5-8 more autocross events this season.

Either should be able to last ~8k miles and up to 8 events, correct?

Obviously, I'm not going to be competitive in any particular class and either tire would be a huge improvement over what I currently have.

From what I've gathered, the 'kooks are better in the wet, but don't have as much grip as the Azenis in the dry. I've also read that the 'kooks grip falls off more as the tread wears (or maybe heat cycles?). Price isn't a big issue as they're both in the same ballpark.

Anyone have first-hand experience with both in similar situations? Are there any other tires I should be considering?
March 15, 2009 8:51 p.m. P71 Dork

I have the 195/60/14 Azenis on my RX-7. I absolutely love them! I've done 6+ events (50+ runs) already on them plus ~3000 street miles and they will last all of the rest of this season as well easily. They have great grip in the dry and I think great wet grip as well. I was able to best much, much faster cars on much better tires at the last auto-x in the wet as I was able to drive like it was dry out.

I heartily recommend the Falkens, you won't be disappointed.
March 15, 2009 9:07 p.m. MCarp22 Reader

I liked my falkens ok. Suspension geometry is terrible though, try to get as much negative camber up front as you can!
March 15, 2009 9:29 p.m. SpeedTheory New Reader

Azenis grease quickly when heated up, and are also fairly old hat now. Lots of better tires out there (R1R, RE-11, XS, RE-01R, in that order, probably), but none are available in 14s. I'd go with the RS2s from what I've heard, I have a personal hatred for Falkens.
March 15, 2009 9:48 p.m. JohnW New Reader

I don't think you can really go wrong with either the Falkens or the RS2s. I've never had the Falkens, but the RS-2s did work well in the rain and were also well-mannered (actually quite comfortable) street tires. I think they have a somewhat softer sidewall than the Falkens.

I'd probably just go with which ever tire costs less if the difference is more than a few bucks.
March 15, 2009 9:49 p.m. SpeedTheory New Reader

Heh, Azenis in rain. Heh. HEH. I'd rather drive on my A6s.
March 15, 2009 10:19 p.m. P71 Dork

My Falkens have *never gotten greasy. Even with 3 runs back-to-back-to-back in 95 sunny summer weather. They don't even get greasy drag racing. Why the Falken hate?
March 15, 2009 10:35 p.m. SpeedTheory New Reader

Every car I've driven on Falkens greased them. Especially FWD cars. Before Azenis, people weren't spraying street tires between runs. Azenis NEED it. They're ridiculous in the wet, their wear to performance ratio sucks. I'm probably fighting an uphill battle, because yes, they're cheap, which is the only reason I think anybody buys them anymore. With so many better options around, unless, like in this case, you need a 14in, there's no reason to buy Falkens anymore. Years ago, I might have been willing to say, okay, they have bad characteristics, but they're whats fastest. That time has LONG since come and gone.
March 16, 2009 7:53 a.m. 93celicaGT2 HalfDork

I liked the RS2s better on my particular car, which i think is a fairly similar in terms of feel and behaviour in general to the SE-R.

The RS2s last WAYYYYY longer. No contest. Twice as long, easily. I haven't had a problem with grip decreasing as they wear, either. They won't kill you in the rain. Out and out absolute grip in the absolute PERFECT scenario is better with the RT615s. That being said, the RS2 is a much more forgiving tire, easier to drive at the limit without spontaneously going "Whoops! You went over the limit, you're berkeleyed!" The Hankooks have a much larger "grey area" if you will, where yeah, you're over, but they won't bite you in the ass as quickly. They "talk" more.

My experiences with the RT615s has pretty much been that when they start to make some noise, better hang on because you're going for a ride. Some of that is car setup, i'm sure, but i don't have the same problem with the RS2s.

Although personally.... the RS2s are AT LEAST 95% of the tire the RT615s are, within $5 the price, and last twice as long... I think that would sell itself.

For the value, RS2s. If you're looking for the fastest? Spend twice the money and get something else.
March 16, 2009 8:11 a.m. mw Reader

Having driven both, I think either is a good option. I have only had my falkens get greasy on me when I was doing 4+ back to back runs on 90 degree days. Otherwise, there was never a problem. They are not a great rain tire, but I don't think they are dangerous in the rain. They will still be better than the crappy tires you are currently running. The RS2's are not as good a dry tire in my opinion. I would say if you expect a lot of racing in the rain, get the kooks, if you expect to me mostly racing in the dry, get the 615's. Either tire is good enough to drive in the rain on the street.
March 16, 2009 11:13 a.m. Bobzilla Reader

I loved my RS-2's. A great beginner tire IMO. I didn't have any issues until I ran 6 back to back to back runs in my 2880lb FWD beast. the 5th run was starting to get greasey and the 6th run I physically lost feel and grip in th tight turn around.
March 16, 2009 11:19 a.m. sachilles Reader

I'd go up to 15 inch if you can, and buy some bridgestone re01r's, as they are doing killer deals on them right now at the tire rack.
March 16, 2009 11:25 a.m. Bobzilla Reader

re-01R's are gone. Sadly...
March 16, 2009 11:33 a.m. sachilles Reader

call them, they've had a tough time keeping their site up to date. I know of two people in my club that had to use the phone rather than the net, but that was for the 17 inch size. This was just last friday.
March 16, 2009 12:24 p.m. cghstang New Reader

I'll be sticking with 14" for the time being, I already have an extra set of wheels that will fit.

Can anyone verify or comment on 93celicaGT2's thoughts about the 615's breaking traction with less warning and wearing significantly faster compared to the 'kooks?
March 16, 2009 1:01 p.m. P71 Dork

I've never had the RS2's but I haven't gotten significant wear on my 615's and I race, a LOT. They give ample warning before breaking away.
March 16, 2009 1:06 p.m. 93celicaGT2 HalfDork

P71 wrote:

I've never had the RS2's but I haven't gotten significant wear on my 615's and I race, a LOT. They give ample warning before breaking away.

Not that i don't believe you, but i think the platform has a lot to do with that....

You DID also say that you liked the RT615s in the rain.

I guess what i should have said from the get go is: They're pretty comparable. If you're out to get FTD, then you aren't looking at these two tires anyways. Buy whichever one looks cooler.

I have 12k miles on my RS2s and i've MAYBE used 50% of them. My RT615s were unusable after 10k. Which was weird, because i had the RT615s at stock height. I have a bit of negative camber now, and the RS2s are hanging in longer.

I won't debate that at the end of the day, you'll get a faster time in the RT615s, because you probably will.
March 16, 2009 1:17 p.m. sachilles Reader

I can verify that the 615's break traction with less warning than the kooks, but have a more precise feel than the kooks. This is in size 225/50 16 on a subaru wrx. I think the kooks have a tougher time with heavier cars. The softer side wall becomes more apparent. On the same day, at the same track(stock wrx), half worn but new that season kooks were half a second slower than 2-3 season old azeni 215's. In my opinion the kooks don't get fast until they are nearly corded. the kooks make a fine daily driver tire, but aren't the best autox tire(but decent). This is all relative to a heavy all wheel drive car.
March 16, 2009 2:05 p.m. P71 Dork

You do have point, there's a big difference between a FWD car and a RWD car on how these tires will handle/wear, especially since mine is so light and torque-less.

So I guess if you're in a light car that's easy on tires take the Azenis and if you have a nose-heavy FWD take the RS2's?
March 16, 2009 3:38 p.m. cghstang New Reader

Well at this point I'm leaning towards the Hankooks.

They will apparently be the better tire on the street (softer sidewall=smoother ride, less spooky in the wet), last longer than the azenis, and be a better beginner autox tire since they give more warning before breaking traction. They're also a bit cheaper which is fine by me.
March 17, 2009 9:41 a.m. 93celicaGT2 HalfDork

P71 wrote:

You do have point, there's a big difference between a FWD car and a RWD car on how these tires will handle/wear, especially since mine is so light and torque-less.

So I guess if you're in a light car that's easy on tires take the Azenis and if you have a nose-heavy FWD take the RS2's?

That's what i've found so far...

I DID drive an AW11 with RT615s, and it was a completely different experience, i will admit.

But every Civic/integra/Celica i've driven with RT615s i was not that impressed.

I have also found that running about 35psi through the RS2s makes a WORLD of difference in how they respond. Way more crisp, and not so jiggly feeling.

Chris, let us know how you feel about the RS2s when you get them, i'm interested to see how you like them.

The guy that turned me onto RS2s runs in the top of his division in PACNW in his celica, and he actually gets faster times on his RS2s than his RE01s, which is what sold me on them. I don't think that's normal, but he seems to have a setup that works for them. He runs the same 245/45-16 i do, and i can vouch that it's a "different" experience for someone used to street tires like i am. I scare myself way before the limit of the car.

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