1st Gen RX-7 - Opinions Wanted

Hi all,

Long time lurker here, I've always enjoyed reading all the various threads on this forum. I'm a huge car enthusiast and enjoy working on and improving vintage cars. I just started getting into autocross (last November) and absolutely love it. I can't get enough time driving.

Anyways, I noticed that there seem to be a lot of former 1st gen RX-7 owners here and I was looking for an opinion outside of the usual RX-7 forums. I've had my 83' RX-7 GS (12A / open differential) for two years now and I'm trying to decide whether it's worth trying to fix. The car is in almost perfect condition and has <70,000 original miles on it. I hardly ever drive the car anymore since the steering is vague to the point of feeling dangerous. It wasn't that great when I bought it, but not terrible. I rebuilt everything in the front end (did not touch steering box) and it was pretty good. It's been getting progressively worse since that point. 

Former RX-7 owners, is it worth fixing (can it be fixed)? Please don't say rack and pinion conversion, that's way beyond my skill level and I'd like to keep the originality of the car if possible. I've played around with selling it and trying to pick up a NA Miata or X1/9 as a project instead, but I just love the rotary and styling so much. I have an EG hatch w/ 215k+ miles on it that I drive to work and use for autocross (modified for STS) and honestly it handles and drives a lot better, I wish this wasn't the case.

Hoping for some opinions / suggestions, thanks guys. 

Get an alignment.  If it has only 70k, and it hasn't been screwed with, the steering box is going to be fine.  Before that, make sure the wheel bearings are properly adjusted.   The small spindle '79-83 cars had really undersized wheel bearings.  I was readjusting the bearings in my '80 every 3000 miles.  Camber should be +.5.  I tried negative camber and it made the steering heavy feeling and less crisp.

DON'T DO A RACK AND PINION.  The R&P swap that is/was available had horrible bumpsteer problems as well as U joint angularity issues.  The FC suspension swap doesn't have those issues but it  wrecks your suspension geometry and the car handles very poorly.  I'm planning on de-converting my '84.

Also, you MUST run the original size tires (165/13 or 185/70-13) for best handling.  Going with rubberbands is a recipe for tramlining.

They're really lovely when they work and they're 100% worth getting right. It won't drive like the EG, it's a different car, so you need to appreciate it for all of it's light front high revving tail out glory. Mine was a rallycross car so I don't have any relevant advice about setup, but I've drive 3 or 4 street cars and I've loved them all. 

1st gen values seem to be very very slowly going up, but even then, theres just not a market for them.  Prices are low, and it probably isnt worth selling.  Id say keep it, look over entire front suspension.  And dont expect it to be anything close to a civic.   The rx7 is raw, but loveable

Thanks for the responses guys!

@Knurled.: Funny that you should mention wheel bearings, I was kind of wondering about this myself, but I've been ignoring the idea since I figured these were a "set and forget" type of thing. There really isn't a lot of steering play on-center which is why I've never tried touching the steering box (and fearful of messing it up). There is quite a bit of play off-center that's only noticeable when parking, but my understanding is that's by design in these systems. How do you recommend tightening the wheel bearings? I've always used a spring-scale before like in the manual, but my father thought I was crazy for doing that: "oh I just tightened those down snug on my Camaro".

The only reason I would sell my RX-7 would be to make room for a different car, it's not really worth much as noted above. My Civic is a riot and I love it, I managed to spin it at my last autocross, but no I don't expect (or want) my RX-7 to drive like my Civic. I guess my point was the RX-7 should be better on paper, but then again I've put a lot of time and love into my Civic that my RX-7 probably needs now!

I had one when they were new, and the steering wasn't great then either.  You can make it better, but probably not a lot better.  Back in the day I went the X1/9 - MR2 route and never looked back.  I love rotaries, just not RX7s, except the FD.  Early RX7s are still a great looking car however.

I really like the X1/9 despite never having driven one and only having seen one in real life. I have a small list of cars I'd like to try and it's near the top of cars that wouldn't require importing. 

I've owned a 79 RX7 and 85 MR2. Both great cars but really different. The steering in the SA22 was never great but the whole car was really fun to drive and I never felt like a particular part of the car was letting the rest down. Low power, low grip, so-so brakes but it was still very fun on back roads. Despite 1.1L and maybe 90hp I got dismal mileage, low teens usually. You could flow it everywhere and shift at the buzzer. I fit two road bikes, two adults, and luggage in it once for a long weekend road trip. The RX7 felt vintage, classic, or however you want to describe it. 

The MR2 was a great car and light years ahead in a lot of ways. While my RX7 was stock, the MR2 was pretty modified including a 20V 4AGE swap. It was a screamer. Handling was far more direct, quick, and flat. I took this car to the track but never took the RX7.  The MR2 felt like a cheap, lightweight car not necessarily a classic. Everything worked and worked well but it was a pretty loud, hard plastic place to be. 

Saying all that, if I had an extra garage spot for a "classic" weekend-only car, the RX7 would be near the top of the list, not the MR2. The MR2 was a much better track car and sort of a tool in its focus. The RX7 was more unique and just made me smile.

The RX7:

The MR2:

Are there still X1/9s? This is the only one I've seen in about 10 years, and I imagined they were all like that now:

I'm going to have a go with tightening the wheel bearings and getting an alignment and see where I'm at. I'd honestly probably be happy if the steering was "acceptable", meaning not terrifying at highway speeds. I'd only really sell the car to make room for something else anyway. Top contenders would be AE86 Corolla, NA Miata, X1/9 or maybe import a Peugeot 205 GTI. I'll keep you all updated, thanks for the responses - lots of good information here.

@Wiscocrashtest: Great comparison and great looking cars. Out of the three (RX-7, MR-2 and X1/9) I have to say the RX-7 is easily the best looking in my opinion. Mazda did a great job at taking styling cues from a lot of different sports cars and combining them in my opinion. 

What about a lose idler arm?

Okay, I rotated the tires and went for a drive. The car felt pretty good actually, drove around some more and then it started feeling sloppy again. I adjusted the wheel bearings and went for a drive and didn't notice any change. I feel a bit of vibration through the steering when going in a straight line and the car is worst going straight and coming out of a corner.

I'm going to check the steering linkage and then get an alignment. 

Personally I don't care how under powered or vague the steering is on my RX-7. It is by far the most fun car I've ever owned. I actually love my early 79 more than my first RX-7 which was an 83 Limited Edition. Something about the SA22C seems more raw to me, and I much prefer the steel bumpers. I auto-x'd, and did a few track days with the 83 and felt it was a good solid base for a car based on my humble abilities. I felt that the car had way more in it than I could uncork, but I never raced anything prior to using the RX-7 for that purpose. I also would avoid the R&P as I've never heard good things about them. 

I've tried to own 1st gen MR2s but never succeeded. I have owned an FB and a couple of X1/9s.

You can still find pretty decent condition X1/9s here in the Southwest, even with uncooked interiors. They're not exactly fast but I wouldn't mind another one. Unfortunately the simpler tuning options like dropping a Fiat Uno Turbo engine in aren't available in the US.

FBs - well, mine was an Elford Turbo so it had more Oomph than they normally have. After owning an FB, FC TII and an FD I'm not sure I want another FB. I've looked at a couple and still like them, but I've been having an hankering for some spicy Italian recently. Wouldn't kick one with a Mariah wide body kit out of the garage, though.

Idler arm bushings are a common reason for poor steering feel. Back in the day I made my own from harder material. They are easy to change, no need to even jack up the car.

I think something has to be screwed up on my RX-7 (or it's just me). I drove it to work today and on the high way it's downright terrifying. There's numb / vague steering and then there's "is the steering wheel even attached the wheels, what is going on". I'd like to aim for the former.

Hopefully I should be getting a 3 car garage soon, so I may just keep the car and pick up a cheap third car. X1/9 is very appealing to me, but I'm wondering if it will just be dog-slow to the point of not being fun or if people's recollection of the handling is rose-tinted. The X1/9 appeals to me more than an MR-2 for some reason. 

I really want one with an IMSA body kit

I think my favorite racing RX-7 would be the Group C Alan Moffat car. You can find a lot of 80's Australian Touring Car videos on YouTube and it's very entertaining to watch.

I wish I could just get mine to drive consistently. I had the handling "right" at one point, but no idea what I did to get away from that. It's been so long I wonder if it ever handled well at all.

My advice is to never go for a joyride with your buddy is his new RX7 sometime in 1980.

Finally got some time to focus on my RX-7. I replaced all the tie-rods and the idler arm and it feels pretty good. It's far from perfect but probably as good as it ever will be. I've only got like 1/4" of total play in the steering and it feels reasonably direct. The car still wanders a bit in a straight line though. Front-end alignment is -.08/-1.06 degrees camber, 3.64/3.74 degrees caster and .09/.09 degrees toe. No idea why there is such a difference in camber since both strut tops are aligned in the "max-caster/max-camber" position. Turn-in feels relatively good, although it washes out into understeer if you apply throttle. I think I'm going to ditch the stiff springs which aren't doing much for handling on 185/70-13 all-seasons.

You might want to try more caster if you can.  That will make it more solid at speed and add some camber when turning the wheel.

For any looseness (if there is any more):  Lock the tires up as good as possible so they cannot turn then have someone turn the wheel back and forth, get under the car and see what moves and what doesn’t.

I am dealing with a RB steering also and realistically there is only so much you can do, it will never be a RP.

I don't think I can get anymore caster without adding camber-plates and I don't know how much more money/effort I want to spend on the car at this point. I'm having a hard time deciding if I want to sell the car or just keep driving and enjoying as is. I enjoy the car a lot, I just don't enjoy it consistently I suppose. The only time it feels really bad is on the highway, where the steering is really spooky. 

hcaulfield57 said:

Finally got some time to focus on my RX-7. I replaced all the tie-rods and the idler arm and it feels pretty good. It's far from perfect but probably as good as it ever will be. I've only got like 1/4" of total play in the steering and it feels reasonably direct. The car still wanders a bit in a straight line though. Front-end alignment is -.08/-1.06 degrees camber, 3.64/3.74 degrees caster and .09/.09 degrees toe. No idea why there is such a difference in camber since both strut tops are aligned in the "max-caster/max-camber" position. Turn-in feels relatively good, although it washes out into understeer if you apply throttle. I think I'm going to ditch the stiff springs which aren't doing much for handling on 185/70-13 all-seasons.

It will drive a ton better if you get rid of that negative camber in the front.

Caster is also pretty high, and this is not doing you any favors either.  Ideally IIRC it should be around 2 degrees positive.  Back inna day when the Fords that this front end was largely cribbed from were common, caster was usually a little negative, and the cars drove just great.

I would not fixate on the steering play.  The wandering is making you notice the play, it is not a result of it.  Even if the play was completely zero you would still notice the wandering.   When the control arm bushings go bad, the rear-steer geometry (tie rods behind front axle) means that side loads give a positive feedback loop, which can be all sorts of "fun".  Resist the urge to go poly.  It's cheaper, but the play comes right back in a few thousand miles. 

The rack and pinion conversion in my FB has about 1/2 - 3/4" of play.  I drive with hand pressure, not hand position, so play in the steering makes no difference.

@Knurled.: You're correct that the only reason the play bothers me is because of the wander. When you're in corners it's really not noticeable, but when it's windy outside or you're on a less than perfect street (every street in CO) it's annoying to be all over the place. When I got the car I replaced the control arm bushings with polyurethane as well as the radius rod bushings. I noticed the other day that it looks like one of my radius rod bushings is already ripped. I have not checked on the condition of the other bushings, but I've thought about replacing them with stock for awhile. 

In reply to hcaulfield57 :

"Replacing everything with stock" is why I bought a second RX-7, just to keep as close to stock as practical.

My '84 hits so many checklist buttons that it would make most people swoon (no turbo, but everything else on the mods list) and my favorite RX-7 to just get in and drive is still my '80 that I bought in 1998, when it was as Mazda delivered it.  Stock engine, stock exhaust, stock everything.  So when I was offered a nearly stock '81 for a price I could not turn down, I did everything I could to get it.