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Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
10/12/09 9:42 a.m.

Here's a look at the first draft of the 2010 ruleset. I'm going to clarify with the track about things like long pants, etc so it's spelled out explicitly.

Car Building and Budgets 1. This Challenge is designed and run as an editorial event for a privately owned magazine. As such, the rules and event should be taken with a certain spirit in mind. In other words, all entrants should play well with others. It will make the event much more pleasant for all of those involved. Grassroots Motorsports reserves the right to refuse entry to any individuals or teams. Individuals or teams that behave in a manner that reflects poorly on this event or the magazine will be immediately disqualified and their entries will be removed from the editorial write-up. 2. If the rules do not say you can do something, you cannot do it. 3. Cars must be constructed so that they can be raced in a safe manner. Driver ingress and egress must be considered in the construction of the car. In the case of an accident, the driver must be able to exit the car quickly and safely. We strongly encourage that the builders bring their cars to a licensed NHRA technical inspector (see item on Safety Inspections) for their review of the car. 4. Vehicles and their component systems may be modified or substituted while observing the guidelines set forth by these rules. Drivetrains, suspensions, brakes, exteriors, interiors, electrical systems and fuel systems may be modified. Wheels and tires may be replaced. 5. Only Production-based passenger road cars are allowed in the regular competition. All Locosts, race cars, kit cars, Zambonis and the like are allowed only in the Special class (See Rule #27). 6. Cars must be roadworthy, meaning basic street equipment must be present: functioning headlights, uncracked windshields, working brake lights, working horn and DOT-approved tires. 7. Non-DOT-legal slicks are allowed at the drag strip, but they must be replaced by DOT-legal tires for the autocross competition. 8. All major body panels of the car that are being used as a foundation for the Challenge car must be present at all times on the car. This includes the floor pan, inner fender panels, hoods, fenders, roof, sills, etc. Bumpers may be removed or replaced. Full frame cars must retain their full frame, while unibody or subframe cars must retain their full floor pans, subframes and the like. Exceptions to this rule are listed in Rule #9. 9. Modifications may be made to the original unibody or body and body panels and frame for engine and suspension swaps and modifications, but only to the extent neccessary to perform the change. This can include removing portions of the stock unibody and frame and replacing them with corresponding sections from a donor production car, or clearancing for engine and suspension modifications. 10. Interiors may be gutted, although the basic dashboard or dashpad must remain. If the original dashboard pad has since rotted or deteriorated away, it may be replaced with a full width piece of aluminum. 11. Windows may be replaced with clear Lexan or polycarbonate that meets all safety requirements. 12. Fenders and hoods may be replaced as long as the replacement is solid and safe, resembles the original piece and has a positive latching device. Exceptions to this rule must be approved prior to the event by the GRM staff.

  1. Cars do not have to be built for any recognized sanctioned race class. Nitrous oxide, forced induction and radical engine swaps are permitted. (As per SCCA rules, nitrous oxide shall not be used at the autocross event.)

    1. All builders shall spend no more than $2010 on their cars. The purchase price of the car must be equal to or less than $2010. Title fees, registration and insurance are not counted toward the budget. Shipping (or transportation costs) of the car and parts used in the building process must be counted toward the budget.
    2. All parts used at the event (including multiple sets of tires) shall be part of that $2010 budget.
    3. Parts that are not used may be traded or sold up to the initial cost of the car or parts deal. In other words, if you buy a $500 Challenge car, you can recoup up to $500 of your budget by selling parts. (If you do turn a profit on selling parts off the car, we suggest you take your significant other out to dinner to compensate them for having a $2010 car hanging around the house.). Once the recuperation limit has been reached on a car or parts deals, trading is not allowed.
    4. The maximum amount of money that can be recouped in a budget is $1005. This includes parts cars, parts deals and the Challenge car itself.
    5. Parts that are given to the competitor by a company or person must be figured into the budget at fair market value. Sponsorships are allowed, but the value of any product or service that is used in building the car must be figured into the $2010 budget.
    6. Entrants must show up to the competition with complete documentation totaling, at most, $2010. Entrants must bring receipts or verifiable proof for each item on the car, including the car itself. This information will be available at registration for all entrants to view. The more information provided about the car, the better. Photos are extremely helpful in documentation. If you are submitting digital files, make sure that they are at least 1280x960 pixels. All submitted paperwork shall become the property of Grassroots Motorsports and will not be returned. If you need to keep copies for your records, turn in photocopies to GRM.
    7. If parts or vehicles are already owned by the competitor, they must be figured into the budget at fair market value at todays prices.
    8. Cars that are purchased at nonpublic, dealer-only auctions must be valued at fair market retail pricing.
    9. Work that is performed at a commercial, for-profit place of business must be billed to the budget at fair market value.
    10. Past Challenge Cars: Past Challenge cars may be entered as long as they meet all current rules.
    11. Past Challenge cars and their parts cannot be sold and repurchased in an effort to depreciate their value for budget purposes. If parts are sold off the past Challenge car, the amount credited to the budget cannot exceed A) fair market value at todays prices AND B) must meet all other challenge rules (i.e., if you sold $300 worth of parts off of your $300 car for the last challenge, you cant credit yourself $200 for a bumper that you took off for the upcoming challenge, as you’ve already credited yourself the maximum amount per previous challenge budgeting).
    12. Tires and brake pads on a past Challenge car, if they are worn out, can be replaced up to the value at which they were originally listed for the previous Challenge (i.e., $200 tires can be replaced with up to $200 tires).
    13. Parts that break during the Challenge (and during transportation to the Challenge) may be replaced at the event on an emergency basis, but penalty points may be awarded if the total value exceeds the $2010 limit. Front license plates and holders shall be removed. We think these are ugly and will reduce the likelihood that well use your car, if so equipped, in any large shots in our coverage of the Challenge.
    14. A Special class for Locosts/Race Cars/Kit Cars/Specials will be run for exhibition only. It will be scored independently from the rest of the competitors. The Special class competitors will only be eligible for the Special class trophies, unless one of them explodes spectacularly. Then we might reconsider. Special class cars must also meet the classification requirements for a recognized autocross class (for example: SCCA’s A Modified). These cars must meet all Challenge budget rules and safety regulations with the following exceptions: a) The cars do not have to be roadworthy. headlights, windshields and horns are not required b) non-DOT approved racing slicks are allowed

    15. Protests: Any car may be protested by another entrant.

    16. The entrant who is questioning the legality of another car shall present his or her case and a protest fee of $50 to the Independent Council. The Independent Council will rule on the car. If the Council says the car is legal, then the protest is dropped and the protest fee is forfeited. If the Council says the car is not legal, then the owner has two choices: run for exhibition only or go home. In this case, the protest fee would be returned.
    17. The Grassroots Motorsports staff can protest any entrant at any time without having to pay a protest fee. The GRM staff can also pull any car from the Challenge results and/or magazine coverage for any reason deemed necessary.
    18. The ruling of the Independent Council shall be binding and is not open to dispute or public debate. The Independent Council will be selected by the GRM office staff before the event. All protest intentions must be presented to the Independent Council by the end of the first day of competition.
    19. The GRM staff reserves the right to penalize competitors for delaying competition due to engine failure on the drag strip. Since we have the drags on Saturday as the last leg of competion, the temptation will be there for competitors to boost until it blows! to get the best possible drag time. This will be frowned upon for several reasons, including the following: Its dangerous, it slows down competition when we have to clean up the track, and it unfairly biases the scoring toward those competitors with a win at all costs mentality. The penalty for this will be on a sliding scale from one to 25 points and will be determined by the GRM staff.
    20. Cars must run all sponsor decals, including a number panel on each side of the car. Number panels must be placed on each door (front doors if the car is a four door). If the number of the car is already applied to the car as a part of it’s “Theme”, that is ok, but the car must then run normal Grassroots Motorsports bumper stickers on both sides of the car.
    21. The GRM staff reserves the right to make any changes, additions or adjustments to these rules at any time. Safety Inspections
    22. All cars must pass a safety inspection in order to compete. It is entirely the competitors responsibility to make sure that their cars can pass the safety inspection.
    23. All cars must pass a safety inspection. Examples of items that may be checked are throttle return springs, battery tie downs, lug nuts, seat belts, brake pedal pressure and the overall soundness of the car. (Stock components in good working order will pass.)
    24. Cars must also meet all NHRA safety regulations. This includes, in addition to the items required by the autocross safety rules, the presence of front, side and rear windows. Open-top cars may run if the driver is wearing arm restraints and approved seat belts. All cars capable of running 11.49 seconds or better must have a NHRA legal roll cage, while OPEN cars capable of running 13.99 seconds or better must have a NHRA-legal roll cage. All cars must also feature a working taillight. If the required safety equipment is not in place, entrants will be scored with a time equal to the best time allowed for the cars level of preparation. For example, if you run a 11.29 in a car without a roll cage, you will be scored as a 11.50. More information on NHRA rules can be found at the NHRA web site.
    25. The following safety gear can be installed on the Challenge vehicle or used by the driver without counting toward the Challenge Budget: seat belts or safety harnesss and their mounting hardware, window nets and their mounting hardware, arm restraints, fire extinguishers or fire extinguishing systems, SFI-rated scattershields, helmets, drivers suits, shoes and other personal safety gear. Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders and brake cylinders/calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with stock pieces. The items may only be used as intended for safety purposes and have no performance advantage.
alfadriver
alfadriver HalfDork
10/12/09 11:01 a.m.

Since the formatting isn't exactly accurate here on the message board, can you highlight the changes?

Eric

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
10/12/09 11:04 a.m.

Small tweaks here and there.

Fenders/hoods must be on the car at all times. exceptions to this must be approved by the GRM staff beforehand.

I also added to the specials class.

Per

splitime
splitime Reader
10/12/09 11:20 a.m.

I sense another round of Andy inspired updates....

Way to go Andy! :)

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
10/12/09 11:53 a.m.

Not really, Andy called ahead on his. I just want to keep cars looking good for the editorial.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair SuperDork
10/12/09 11:57 a.m.

[quote="Rules 8 and 9"]

  1. All major body panels of the car that are being used as a foundation for the Challenge car must be present at all times on the car. This includes the floor pan, inner fender panels, hoods, fenders, roof, sills, etc. Bumpers may be removed or replaced. Full frame cars must retain their full frame, while unibody or subframe cars must retain their full floor pans, subframes and the like. Exceptions to this rule are listed in Rule #9. 9. Modifications may be made to the original unibody or body and body panels and frame for engine and suspension swaps and modifications, but only to the extent neccessary to perform the change. This can include removing portions of the stock unibody and frame and replacing them with corresponding sections from a donor production car, or clearancing for engine and suspension modifications

there were a couple of cars running without hoods because they were having a hard time managing the heat at the drags. will this no longer be allowed?

splitime
splitime Reader
10/12/09 12:03 p.m.
Per Schroeder wrote: Not really, Andy called ahead on his. I just want to keep cars looking good for the editorial.

I meant more of them being somewhat Andy inspired rule updates. Realizing my thoughts didn't flow out onto the keyboard very well.

Also curious about the hood thing. As it can be a simple fix to cooling issues. And boy was it hot this year.

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
10/12/09 12:27 p.m.

From th epixxors it looked like a convertible CRX may have added to that rule as well.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
10/12/09 12:34 p.m.

Per-can we clarify the rollbar requirements for open roof cars?

In $08 I was told my roofless Miata couldn't run the drags unless I had a rollbar. I argued for a bit (including mentioning the fact that I thought the NHRA rulebook disagreed with him) but he wouldn't budge. I managed to borrow a hardtop to appease him. This year several Miatae showed up topless and sans rollbar and were allowed to run. Is their an official ruling on what is required. It was part of the reason our car didn't come back this year and if I bring it back next year I need to be sure.
Thanks

splitime
splitime Reader
10/12/09 12:44 p.m.
John Brown wrote: From th epixxors it looked like a convertible CRX may have added to that rule as well.

Very true. I do now even remember thinking about it with regards to the way the rule was written this year. Let alone the rule adjustment for next year.

MrJoshua wrote: Per-can we clarify the rollbar requirements for open roof cars? In $08 I was told my roofless Miata couldn't run the drags unless I had a rollbar. I argued for a bit (including mentioning the fact that I thought the NHRA rulebook disagreed with him) but he wouldn't budge. I managed to borrow a hardtop to appease him. This year several Miatae showed up topless and sans rollbar and were allowed to run. Is their an official ruling on what is required. It was part of the reason our car didn't come back this year and if I bring it back next year I need to be sure. Thanks

Very curious about this... as I am going to be Miata based next season also.

Sofa King
Sofa King New Reader
10/12/09 1:26 p.m.

I was also curious about the topless CRX. I thought that you could remove a roof if the car was also available as a convertible. Did they do some thing to satisfy this, like have the roof at the Challenge but in the trailer?

Also, I didn't see any topless Miatae run the drags sans rollbar, but I did run mine with just the soft top. (I expected that my time would have been limited to 14.0 should that have been an issue.) Were any actually permitted to run open without a rollbar and arm restraints?

DukeOfUndersteer
DukeOfUndersteer Dork
10/12/09 2:56 p.m.

what would the fair market value of a big aluminum wing be? Say, i traded a case of beer for the wing... Would the wing be worth the case of Beer, or worth what someone would pay at Pep Boys?

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
10/12/09 3:42 p.m.

Here are the rules that Gainesville adheres to. The rollcage/bar requirement is spelled out:

http://www.gainesvilleraceway.com/apcm/templates/trackinfo.asp?articleid=26460&zoneid=69

Now, the "Straman" CRX got prior approval, with the caveat that Team Gutty essentially said it was a POS with no chance of winning. They just wanted to have fun. I suggested that they were shooting for a "Straman CRX" visual theme.

We'd like to keep the competitors from ditching body panels to save weight. The cars need to look good...and a CRX without fenders would look like ass. A weird VW bug contraption, OTOH, would not.

Karl La Follette
Karl La Follette Reader
10/12/09 3:44 p.m.

i looked at the topless crx and thought why not a button top tonneau would that be legal ?

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
10/12/09 3:47 p.m.

Duke of U. Can you document that the trade was indeed 'real' with an email or something? We tend to allow these trades to happen as long as it's 'reasonable'

Per

DukeOfUndersteer
DukeOfUndersteer Dork
10/12/09 3:55 p.m.

oh, nothing has been done yet, was wondering in case an offer were to pop his head up like this...

splitime
splitime Reader
10/12/09 3:56 p.m.

Crap... if i reach my goals at all... have to figure out a way to get a rollbar into budget. Thankfully I can avoid adding harnesses into the budget.

rules state: 10. A roll bar is mandatory in: a. Any full-bodied car running 11.00-11.49 (7.00-7.35) b.Convertibles running 11.00 – 13.49 (7.00-8.25) 11. Roll Cage mandatory 10.99 (1/8th 6.99) or quicker; certified chassis 9.99 (1/8th 6.39) and quicker 12. A quick release, 3” Driver restraint system, with a 2 inch crotch strap, meeting SFI spec 16.1 is mandatory if a roll bar or roll cage is required

Possibly a driveshaft loop also. Feels odd on a Miata.

rules state: 23. Drive shaft loop required 13.99 1/4 Mile; (1/8 Mile 8.59) or quicker, or if running slicks, 11.49 1/4 Mile or 7.35 1/8 Mile with street tires

Off to crunch numbers and estimates again... sigh.

nocones
nocones Reader
10/12/09 4:06 p.m.

Could a basic 4-point roll bar be allowed "free" as a safety item to allow convertibles to legally run competitive times with hardtops? Just a simple 4-point, maybe must be bolt in or some such to reduce schenanigans with people trying to stiffen their chassis for performance. Other than being legal to run the times I don't see what performance advantage a 4-point bar would have, and you could say any Weld in or 4+ point bar does count for budget.

I

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
10/12/09 4:22 p.m.

I'll discuss that with David etal. It might be something along the lines of "commercially available bolt-in roll bars and cages" added to the free safety equipment clause.

dyintorace
dyintorace Dork
10/12/09 5:35 p.m.
nocones wrote: Could a basic 4-point roll bar be allowed "free" as a safety item to allow convertibles to legally run competitive times with hardtops? Just a simple 4-point, maybe must be bolt in or some such to reduce schenanigans with people trying to stiffen their chassis for performance. Other than being legal to run the times I don't see what performance advantage a 4-point bar would have, and you could say any Weld in or 4+ point bar does count for budget. I

I'm not sure a basic 4-point would qualify, per NHRA rules. I found this with a quick Google search:

NHRA roll cage rules

When do I need a roll bar or roll cage, and what should it look like?

A roll bar is required in any convertible running 13.49 seconds or quicker in the quarter mile, and in other cars beginning at 11.49. The roll bar is accepted in vehicles running as quick as 10.00 second e.t., provided the stock firewall and floorboard is intact, other than for installation of wheel tubs. The rollbar must be constructed of minimum 1 ¾ inch o.d. x .118 inch wall mild steel tubing, or 1 ¾ x .083 chrome moly tubing, and must conform to the following diagram:

JThw8
JThw8 SuperDork
10/12/09 5:37 p.m.
Per Schroeder wrote: I'll discuss that with David etal. It might be something along the lines of "commercially available bolt-in roll bars and cages" added to the free safety equipment clause.

Something like this would be nice for folks who want to run the car in Lemons too, except the "commercially available" part kinda excludes things like Wartburgs :(

1/2 our GRM budget has to go into the cage just to make it to Lemons. We may sawzall it out after lemons just to get some GRM budget back, we'll see where the budget ends up.

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
10/12/09 5:49 p.m.

I'd rather see road-racing style cages rather than the drag cages, personally.

dyintorace
dyintorace Dork
10/12/09 5:55 p.m.
Per Schroeder wrote: I'd rather see road-racing style cages rather than the drag cages, personally.

I couldn't agree more. I think most Challenge competitors would be found out auto-x'ing or participating in track events, as opposed to drag racing. Add in the aforementioned Lemons participation and it would be great to be able to have a dual event car. I know roll cages/bars have been argued back and forth for some time, but I think any chassis stiffening gained from a roll cage is offset by the weight gain.

JThw8
JThw8 SuperDork
10/12/09 6:02 p.m.
Per Schroeder wrote: I'd rather see road-racing style cages rather than the drag cages, personally.

Ive got no problem with that, again, works well with those trying to double up the 2 events.

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
10/12/09 6:21 p.m.

This is a good example of 'rules creep' as it could quickly evolve to cages that tie the front and rear suspensions together. In my mind, I'd like to see Kirk, Hard Dog or Autopower bolt-in cages being legal under safety allowances.

I kinda like the SCCA Stock class roll bar and cage allowances. Simply put, must be bolt in and can't tie anything together. Does anyone run one? Nope, because they make the car slower on the autocross course. But...they would be safer for the top end of the strip.

Per

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