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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » 2010 Challenge Rules---First Draft

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Oct. 14, 2009 10:07 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

couple of updates:

F) Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders and brake cylinders/calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with new stock pieces. Original brake parts can not be sold and then rebought to take advantage of this allowance. G) Roll bars and roll cages may be added. Roll cages must be bolted (not welded) into the automobile and contained within the passenger/driver compartment. Roll bars may be welded in. A roll cage has more than five attachment points (but no more than eight) to the body or frame. Roll bars and roll cages must be padded withing 6-inches of the occupants heads with SFI-spec high-density padding. Helmets must be worn in cars with roll bars or roll cages. Any additional bars and attachment points added to the roll bar or roll cage, or extending the bar or cage outside of the passenger compartment to the suspension pick up points will negate this allowance and make the entire cage count towards your budget.
Oct. 14, 2009 10:48 a.m. Pat New Reader

I like. Thanks Per.
Oct. 14, 2009 11:21 a.m. 914Driver SuperDork

I like everything so far, but I have to say that I am shocked that anyone would be allowed on a track with no helmet.

The dead stock 19 second Corvair I had in high school could damage the pumpkin if something bad happened.

That's all, just surprised.

Dan
Oct. 14, 2009 11:24 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

You're right, but the track rules for the drags are a little more lenient in that regard vs autocross.
Oct. 14, 2009 5:17 p.m. itsarebuild New Reader

thanks per! i like the updates!
Oct. 15, 2009 12:05 p.m. SVreX PowerDork

Looks good, Per.

Is roll bar padding billed to the budget, or is it a non-performance safety item?
Oct. 15, 2009 4:37 p.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

safety item.
Oct. 16, 2009 12:53 p.m. poopshovel UltraDork

I dig it thus far. This is one part of the LeMons rules that I thought made great sense. "Please don't skimp on safety items in an effort to stay under budget" is a good message to send, imo.
Oct. 16, 2009 1:02 p.m. SVreX PowerDork

I agree with the poopmeister!
Oct. 16, 2009 1:11 p.m. SillyImportRacer New Reader

poopshovel wrote:

I dig it thus far. This is one part of the LeMons rules that I thought made great sense. "Please don't skimp on safety items in an effort to stay under budget" is a good message to send, imo.

+1

No for my silly question: Is a car with T-Tops considered "open"? Yes, I bought a Camaro with T-Tops. I got a little over happy about finding a running $500 V8 Camaro.

Thanks, Dave
Oct. 16, 2009 5:30 p.m. seeker589 New Reader

My 2 cents -

The Rollcage Rule has me thinking. Is it possible to limit the attachment points of the rollcage to six points - all bolt- in?

This would limit the tendency of rule stretchers to tie in the front wheel-wells on some cars that share an interior panel with a wheel-well.

The six points would be: The main hoop, the two rear struts, and the two down bars coming off the halo bar and no more.

Also - Is a Petty bar (a bar that runs from above the driver's shoulder on the main hoop to the front right mounting point on the roll cage down tubes from the halo bar) legal if it requires no more attachment points? these will stiffen the car on multiple planes and be within the rules as written.
Oct. 17, 2009 12:46 p.m. TIGMOTORSPORTS New Reader

With dragstrips, the ownership usually reflects the requirement for all inclusive helmet wearing. I've been to dragstrips that require everyone to have a helmet (current Snell rating by NHRA) regardless of E.T. 20 second Geo Prism? You still need a helmet. Which is really how it should be. You may be running against a faster car that slids into you. Protect your melon, you only have one. I've also been to dragstrips that do not even have a pre race tech inspection. The worse thing I've seen, was a convertable with the top down, with a passenger, neither wearing helmets, running down the strip on a test and tune session.
Oct. 17, 2009 9:50 p.m. stk_88_ef None

The new rules look good! Cant wait to get started, just picked up an 88 crx hf shell for $300 today... Only 11.5 months to go!
Oct. 19, 2009 3:03 p.m. unevolved New Reader

I have a question on the roll cage rule.

On a Miata, the down tubes for the main hoop (regardless of specific cage/roll bar) must leave the passenger compartment, and as a requirement of having enough of an angle to properly support the main hoop fore/aft, wind up very near the rear suspension pickup points. I've yet to see a Miata cage that doesn't come pretty close to suspension pickup points just due to the nature of the chassis layout.

It seems like that would violate the rules as stated above as it leaves the passenger compartment and comes close to suspension pickup points... Am I missing something here?
Oct. 19, 2009 3:12 p.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

It doesn't look like you have to cut any sheetmetal for those downtubes to bolt to the trunk floor. This rule is more worried about stuff going forward to the front.

Per
Oct. 19, 2009 3:59 p.m. splitime Reader

Per Schroeder wrote:

It doesn't look like you have to cut any sheetmetal for those downtubes to bolt to the trunk floor. This rule is more worried about stuff going forward to the front.

Per

Don't most Miata rollbars require cutting of the rear deck? My old Kirk does... and bolts down in front of the rear shock tower area, doesn't quite make it all the way back.
Oct. 19, 2009 6:35 p.m. SillyImportRacer New Reader

Is a car with T-tops considered open?
Oct. 19, 2009 6:57 p.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

Yes, ttops = open.

The intent is to keep people from making this a performance allowance rather than a safety one. You can do whatever you want that is safe, but if you exceed those rules, you will have to count it towards your budget. If a Miata has two extra holes to put the rear downtubes to fit a commercially available bar, then fine.
Oct. 20, 2009 6:53 a.m. redzcstandardhatch New Reader

so brake lines and new pads ARENT in budget? (OEM style pads)

thats kinda nice. i HATE old brake lines. they scare me.
Oct. 20, 2009 11:17 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

That bit was changed for last year.....that's not a new allowance (brakes, that is)
Oct. 20, 2009 11:33 a.m. splitime Reader

Just wanted to add my thanks for including the rollbars into free safety items (within specific rules). It'll cost me a bit more on the overall project... but the safety benefit is huge. I like my noggin.
Oct. 20, 2009 2:20 p.m. spitfire1300cc None

In reply to Per Schroeder:

It's obvious that modifications to the drive train, suspension, body, etc. may be made, but how extensive can these mods be? For instance, would moving the engine in a front drive car to the back of the car to make it mid engine rear drive be legal?
Oct. 20, 2009 2:45 p.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

Yes, as long as it's safe. Needs firewall, etc.
Oct. 20, 2009 3:11 p.m. splitime Reader

So I can't put 2 LT1s in the driver area of my miata with the intent of straddling the one while driving?

Sigh. Back to the drawing board.
Oct. 22, 2009 5:38 p.m. Pseudosport New Reader

Per Schroeder wrote: Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders and brake cylinders/calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with new stock pieces. Original brake parts can not be sold and then rebought to take advantage of this allowance.

Why are OEM rotors not included?

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