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GameboyRMH wrote:Bobzilla wrote:^ AT the rate Toyota builds things it'll weigh 3100lbs.
Possibly, but don't forget they built the Echo/Yaris in the low 2000s...
The fully loaded Celica GTS in the 2500lb range. The MR-S in the 2150lb range.
Blah blah blah.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:I don't understand why it's not ok for a 2009 Scion tC to weigh 2905lbs, but it's ok for a 2009 Civic Si to weigh 2877lbs, but with less torque.
THIS MAKES SENSE.
On paper, it looks like the Tc would win. But drive the two cars. The Si just feels soooooo much better to drive than the Tc in every way. Have you driven a late model Si yet? I was the biggest Honda hater in the universe until I spent some time driving one. I love those cars, so much that I considered ditching my WRX for one. 
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:The fully loaded Celica GTS in the 2500lb range. The MR-S in the 2150lb range.
Blah blah blah.
Yep. Those are the kinds of cars they killed off.
Brett_Murphy wrote:If I were buying right now, I'd get a Ford Focus with a sport package and the DSG. It meets all of your requirements.
I didn't know focus has an auto shift option, I will be researching that thanks!
Mazda 3 is even uglier than the SER imo.
As far as the Tc, I test drove the 2011 civic Si as well as the Tc. While the Si was slightly faster once you got to vtec, the Tc felt more solid in general. I would rather commute the Tc than the Si. Not sure about at the limit handling, but I bet the Si is better. How would the Tc be with yellow konis and a rear sway bar? Is it hopeless or just tuned softly?
Thanks to all for the ideas. I am not in a hurry, so maybe I will wait to test drive the veloster.... however the hyundai dealers here like to slap a 3k markup on everything :(
SilverFleet wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:I don't understand why it's not ok for a 2009 Scion tC to weigh 2905lbs, but it's ok for a 2009 Civic Si to weigh 2877lbs, but with less torque.
THIS MAKES SENSE.
On paper, it looks like the Tc would win. But drive the two cars. The Si just feels soooooo much better to drive than the Tc in every way. Have you driven a late model Si yet? I was the biggest Honda hater in the universe until I spent some time driving one. I love those cars, so much that I considered ditching my WRX for one.
Everyone quotes the weight issue of the TC, I actually think it would be a solid platform with good performance if Toyota would just offer me one without a giant hole in the roof and a few suspension mods. Maybe tighten up the steering a bit. However, I hear the 2nd gen is better in this regard than the 1st gen.
sanman wrote:Everyone quotes the weight issue of the TC, I actually think it would be a solid platform with good performance if Toyota would just offer me one without a giant hole in the roof and a few suspension mods. Maybe tighten up the steering a bit. However, I hear the 2nd gen is better in this regard than the 1st gen.
Yes I think the 2nd gen has electric steering and a faster ratio.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:I don't understand why it's not ok for a 2009 Scion tC to weigh 2905lbs, but it's ok for a 2009 Civic Si to weigh 2877lbs, but with less torque.
THIS MAKES SENSE.
One day you will learn that not everything on paper translates to the real world. Personally, I hate the older K20 civics (and RSX-S) because you have to wind the piss outta them to get anywhere, but the athletic feel, the suspension and ergonomics of the cars are hard to knock......even for a honda-hater like me.
SilverFleet wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:I don't understand why it's not ok for a 2009 Scion tC to weigh 2905lbs, but it's ok for a 2009 Civic Si to weigh 2877lbs, but with less torque.
THIS MAKES SENSE.
On paper, it looks like the Tc would win. But drive the two cars. The Si just feels soooooo much better to drive than the Tc in every way. Have you driven a late model Si yet? I was the biggest Honda hater in the universe until I spent some time driving one. I love those cars, so much that I considered ditching my WRX for one.
I've driven both. I wouldn't buy either.
BUT, if i had a gun to my head, and needed a DD, i'd pick the tC. The interior layout is far superior to me, and i can ALMOST see out of it. (vs the Civic that i just CAN'T see out of.)
If i need a performance car, i wouldn't look at either.
If i had a gun to my head, i'd pick the Si if i had to leave my choice bone stock. It IS more fun to drive at the limit. I DO like to shift and wring the hell out of a motor.
keethrax wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:The fully loaded Celica GTS in the 2500lb range. The MR-S in the 2150lb range.
Blah blah blah.
Yep. Those are the kinds of cars they killed off.
And i hate them for it. 
Bobzilla wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:I don't understand why it's not ok for a 2009 Scion tC to weigh 2905lbs, but it's ok for a 2009 Civic Si to weigh 2877lbs, but with less torque.
THIS MAKES SENSE.
One day you will learn that not everything on paper translates to the real world. Personally, I hate the older K20 civics (and RSX-S) because you have to wind the piss outta them to get anywhere, but the athletic feel, the suspension and ergonomics of the cars are hard to knock......even for a honda-hater like me.
Then harp on that, and not the weight, because the weight is quite obviously not the issue. 
I know what you're saying, though. I agree. Except for the ergonomics of the 8th gen civic. They give me an aneurysm.
i'M Sorry... but a 3k+ lb empty "sporty" car is redonkulous. It IS an issue for me. Well, that and it's a toyota.
Bobzilla wrote:i'M Sorry... but a 3k+ lb empty "sporty" car is redonkulous. It IS an issue for me. Well, that and it's a toyota.
.... There's a 28lb difference in the cars we're now talking about.
A 150lb difference between the old tC and the new one. We don't know the weight of the 9th gen Civic yet.
ok... THEY're BOTH redonkulous.... I don't care. I've already said I wouldn't touch either one of them.
Well into three pages now and though the TC vs Si debate rages on, notice that no one has said anything nice about the SE-R.
Bobzilla wrote:ok... THEY're BOTH redonkulous.... I don't care. I've already said I wouldn't touch either one of them.
You and me both, sir! Fat heavy cars don't appeal to me.
jrw1621 wrote:Well into three pages now and though the TC vs Si debate rages on, notice that no one has said anything nice about the SE-R.
If you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all, must apply to the SE-R.
MA$$hole wrote:jrw1621 wrote:Well into three pages now and though the TC vs Si debate rages on, notice that no one has said anything nice about the SE-R.
If you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all, must apply to the SE-R.
Kind of the way I felt. I know how much trouble I got into calling the Ridgeline what it is..... so I learned to try and stay away from posting my negative opinions on vehicles.
MA$$hole wrote:jrw1621 wrote:Well into three pages now and though the TC vs Si debate rages on, notice that no one has said anything nice about the SE-R.
If you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all, must apply to the SE-R.
I like the SE-R. Kinda.
I appreciate that Nissan quite obviously didn't make any real attempts to refine the thing. It's more of a car than an appliance. I'm unsure if i would like it as much if i had to spend a lot of time with it, but i had fun with the one i drove.
It wasn't perfect, that's for sure, but i like it better than the Si or tC. 
jrw1621 wrote:Well into three pages now and though the TC vs Si debate rages on, notice that no one has said anything nice about the SE-R.
Mazda 3 is even uglier than the SER imo.
Uhhh.. are you serious? The SE-R is hideous. The last gen 3 looks great.
If you dont like the new one, buy one thats 3 yrs old. You can get a last-gen one AND do whatever you want to it for your budget, it'll be a much better sporting car than the joke SE-R, and it'll be every bit as reliable and nice as the new one (considering your budget, you can buy one that's never been driven).
notice that no one has said anything nice about the SE-R.
Because it's a total non-starter.
If you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all, must apply to the SE-R.
Yup.
This looks good, but it's not longer made.
This is what replaced it and looks like the joker beat it to death with an ugly stick. This is what you can stil buy new.
scardeal wrote:Why am I thinking slightly used DSG GTI?
