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Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Intern
4/4/13 2:55 p.m.

Here they are: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/events/2013challenge/rules/

Changes are in the works for next year, but we felt like only making minor changes would be more appropriate this late in the game.

Please don't hesitate to email me or comment with any questions. My address is TomS@GrassrootsMotorsports.com

May 10, 2013: Weld in cages have been made legal

Ready to enter? All forms needed for entry can be downloaded from the event website under "How to Enter."

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/events/2013challenge/

hrdlydangerous
hrdlydangerous HalfDork
4/4/13 3:31 p.m.

I have a question. The points that can be added for the cars at a disadvantage are added to only the concours score or the entire score?

What about non disadvantaged cars like the Nelsons' Fiat? Would that get 2 points just 'cause it's Italian?

Okay, so that's two questions.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
4/4/13 3:49 p.m.

Wait so does a Yugo count as a Soviet Bloc car, an Italian car and an orphan make car?

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Intern
4/4/13 3:56 p.m.

Points are added to the entire score.

The Fiat would get the automatic 2 points.

Yugos are 5 points, because the orphan rule is for "Other Orphaned Cars," meaning besides those (like the Yugo) we mentioned.

JoeyM
JoeyM UltimaDork
4/4/13 3:57 p.m.

Thanks, Tom.

I'm glad you guys got them up.

Rule #4 has a type/wrong number. It says "(See Rule No. 27).", but you are actually referring to rule #28

(I pointed this out last year, too, but it was never changed.)

Nashco
Nashco UberDork
4/4/13 3:57 p.m.

Thank you! FYI, you might want to go through it a little closer...there's a lot of $2012 (literally, that amount) in there.

Looks like the Kumho rule stuck...now I have to find Kumho tires that will fit an N600. Into the rabbit hole I go!

Bryce

poopshovel
poopshovel UltimaDork
4/4/13 4:03 p.m.

Is the date set in stone yet? I plan on picking up the first wrench a week beforehand.

Nashco
Nashco UberDork
4/4/13 4:06 p.m.
poopshovel wrote: Is the date set in stone yet? I plan on picking up the first wrench a week beforehand.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/events/2013challenge/

Nov 14-16

Alan Cesar
Alan Cesar Associate Editor
4/4/13 4:11 p.m.
JoeyM wrote: Thanks, Tom. I'm glad you guys got them up. Rule #4 has a type/wrong number. It says "(See Rule No. 27).", but you are actually referring to rule #28 (I pointed this out last year, too, but it was never changed.)

It's actually referring to rule 29. And it's fixed now.

hrdlydangerous
hrdlydangerous HalfDork
4/4/13 4:12 p.m.
Tom Suddard wrote: Points are added to the entire score. The Fiat would get the automatic 2 points. Yugos are 5 points, because the orphan rule is for "Other Orphaned Cars," meaning besides those (like the Yugo) we mentioned.

Okay so If I show up with Andy's 10 second Fiat in As-raced trim I definately get an automatic 2 points added to my total score but if I show up in my Pontiac Trans Am I may get 3 points or I may get none? Neither car is disadvantaged and I dare say none of the other competitors would like either car to get added points.

Alan Cesar
Alan Cesar Associate Editor
4/4/13 4:13 p.m.
Nashco wrote: Thank you! FYI, you might want to go through it a little closer...there's a lot of $2012 (literally, that amount) in there. Looks like the Kumho rule stuck...now I have to find Kumho tires that will fit an N600. Into the rabbit hole I go! Bryce

We're making plans for the tire rule for next year, but for now, it stays.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Intern
4/4/13 4:17 p.m.
hrdlydangerous wrote:
Tom Suddard wrote: Points are added to the entire score. The Fiat would get the automatic 2 points. Yugos are 5 points, because the orphan rule is for "Other Orphaned Cars," meaning besides those (like the Yugo) we mentioned.

Okay so If I show up with Andy's 10 second Fiat in As-raced trim I definately get an automatic 2 points added to my total score but if I show up in my Pontiac Trans Am I may get 3 points or I may get none? Neither car is disadvantaged and I dare say none of the other competitors would like either car to get added points.

Correct. Welcome to the game; Andy spent a lot of time and effort making that Fiat not suck, and we want to reward that.

Nashco
Nashco UberDork
4/4/13 4:22 p.m.
Tom Suddard wrote: Correct. Welcome to the game; Andy spent a lot of time and effort making that Fiat not suck, and we want to reward that.

Andy is a smart man. I spent a lot of time and effort making a Honda suck, I deserve to be punished!

Bryce

JoeyM
JoeyM UltimaDork
4/4/13 4:23 p.m.
Alan Cesar wrote:
JoeyM wrote: Rule #4 has a type/wrong number. It says "(See Rule No. 27).", but you are actually referring to rule #28

It's actually referring to rule 29. And it's fixed now.

I'm surprised that a rule mentioning the specials class refers to protests instead of the rule defining the specials class. Regardless, I knew that it should not have been pointed at the "ugly licence plate" rule. Thanks for the quick response

hrdlydangerous
hrdlydangerous HalfDork
4/4/13 4:26 p.m.
Tom Suddard said: Correct. Welcome to the game; Andy spent a lot of time and effort making that Fiat not suck, and we want to reward that.

Be careful what you imply young sir. I, too, spent countless hours making my car "not suck". In fact, I'd say that each and every competitor believes the same of their car.

hrdlydangerous
hrdlydangerous HalfDork
4/4/13 4:27 p.m.

...and my car is an orphan. So how many points do I get?

Nevermind. I'm going to look at CL for a french communist car with an Italian engine swapped in and a fiberglass MG body on it.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
4/4/13 7:00 p.m.
hrdlydangerous wrote: I have a question. The points that can be added for the cars at a disadvantage are added to only the concours score or the entire score? What about non disadvantaged cars like the Nelsons' Fiat? Would that get 2 points just 'cause it's Italian? Okay, so that's two questions.

I think you are missing the point.

The point is to generate editorial content for the magazine. To that extent, the disadvantaged rule is PERFECT!

Nice job guys- Thanks!

I look forward to what lies ahead...

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
4/4/13 7:07 p.m.

Bad news, guys...

The MINI Cooper was an easy fix, Kumho has V700's that fit, and I don't give a crap about disadvantaged points.

Muhahahah!

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
4/4/13 8:39 p.m.
poopshovel wrote: Is the date set in stone yet? I plan on picking up the first wrench a week beforehand.

I like your style.

Pat
Pat Reader
4/4/13 8:39 p.m.
hrdlydangerous wrote: ...and my car is an orphan. So how many points do I get? Nevermind. I'm going to look at CL for a french communist car with an Italian engine swapped in and a fiberglass MG body on it.

Consider yourself lucky that the F body that you have is a Pontiac that could get up to 3 points and not an identical Camaro that would get you nothing.

I don't know...these changes make the Challenge seems a bit more like a game than a competition. 3 points, 5 points, etc...that's potentially a huge swing in overall points that could push a car into the win even if it doesn't run the performance numbers.

Pat
Pat Reader
4/4/13 8:40 p.m.

Crap...I just realized both of my Challenge cars are Dodges and not their identical twin Plymouths!

I mean...yeah, I have a Sundance and a Reliant. Not a Shadow and an Aries. You guys have been misprinting them the past few years. Sorry I haven't corrected you sooner.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
4/4/13 8:44 p.m.

We figured that we'd use a sliding scale for the orphan cars. Is a Firebird as much of an orphan as a Sterling, Checker or Lancia? Maybe, maybe not. The idea is to get a little more fun back into the event. (That's why we're doing this, right?)

aussiesmg
aussiesmg UltimaDork
4/4/13 8:55 p.m.

Anybody got a couple of Fiat badges for a Fox, er I mean, Southern Italian Ford 2 door sedan.

Pat
Pat Reader
4/4/13 9:08 p.m.

Steve...how many times to I have to point out to you that your car is not a Mustang? For the last time, it's a MERCURY Capri. You're welcome.

David...I'm just messing around a bit. Honestly, the idea seems a bit silly to me, but if it accomplishes what you're looking to accomplish, go for it. I'm interested to see what real changes are made for '14.

hrdlydangerous
hrdlydangerous HalfDork
4/4/13 10:58 p.m.
SVreX wrote: I think you are missing the point. The point is to generate editorial content for the magazine. To that extent, the disadvantaged rule is PERFECT! Nice job guys- Thanks!

I guess I am, Paul. Part of the appeal of the Challenge to me was it was run what 'ya brung for less than $20xx. Bring the fastest, prettiest, most clever car you can, and put it up against the other crazies who, like me, used every spare moment working on their junk risking their marriage and sanity.

I finished third in 2011 behind two Incredible cars and teams. If this rule were in place then, I may have won because I had a Pontiac. That would've been a hollow victory for me and from the reader's perspective, I don't see how that's interesting.

That event didn't leave me looking for an excuse or trying to find an exception. I didn't begrudge the Nelsons or Vorshlag for having superior fabrication skills or a killer machine shop. No. It sent me back to the drawing board to improve because for me, a reader of the magazine, I want to know how (insert whoever's name here) managed to be the best at the discipline.

I don't want to read how someone showed up with some Russian POS, finished mid pack, got bonus points for showing up with said POS, and ended up on the podium.

If you want to reward the quirky cars do like LeMons and do an index of effluence award.

I realize that my rant will not change the decision and it's my choice whether or not to compete under the new rules. I also realize that if I do compete this year I will kick everyone's butt. (Trash talking. Another Challenge tradition)

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