pimpm3 said:
No offense taken, I actually really like the concours portion of the event. With the exception of the truck we ruined for the parking lot build, the concours helped all of the vehicles I was involved in.
A great example is the 1984 c10 my friends kids built. They had a great presentation and a good story and it really moved them up in the standings. They lost to the blue c1500 in the drags and the autocross but ended up beating him based on their story.
Your point makes sense- head to head, some more points for a better presentation is great.
But a great presentation does not make lipstick on a pig look great. That's my question, really. How does a poorly executed appearence car get so many points just because of the presentation?
In reply to alfadriver :
No. The high school car was a true FULL build. If you find their link to the gofundme page you can see they stripped the entire chassis, had it on a rotisserie and did an extremely clean and finished build. Their black paint was a mixture of all the leftover black paint they had. It really turned out well.
Jerry
UltraDork
10/23/17 10:03 a.m.
In reply to hobiercr :
That high school car was my vote for Challenge Favorite. If they had offered it for sale like the $2018 truck, I might have a more crowded garage today.
In reply to hobiercr :
Ok, thanks for clarifying that. I was just watching the streaming coverage.
hobiercr said:
In reply to alfadriver :
No. The high school car was a true FULL build. If you find their link to the gofundme page you can see they stripped the entire chassis, had it on a rotisserie and did an extremely clean and finished build. Their black paint was a mixture of all the leftover black paint they had. It really turned out well.
Not only did they have it on a rotisserie...they built their own rotisserie!
I should have spent more time listening to the presentations. I think there are points to be had there for us "normal" builders. The highschool and college kids seem to have that as part of their daily life so can do well at it. I did watch the Smith kids do their poster presentation and it was as good as a poster you'd find at a graduate level technical conference. The Nelsons and a few others know how to highlight cool stuff, and frankly their cars are full of it. I think it might be as much a matter of pointing out cool stuff as having cool stuff. If the judges have to look for it, it doesn't matter, even if you spent 100 hours on it.
Attending gives me a different view that just reading about the Challenge in the magazine or on the forum.
In reply to mazdeuce :
What I realized this year, and the fact the judges & process were different certainly contributed to it, is you really need to pick the points you want to highlight for each category and focus on them. Nearly every build will be too much to cover in 3-minutes, so pick what you think stands out the most, and cover the rest in your build book.
Two pages and no pics. I am miff.
In reply to alfadriver :
I finished 4th on dynamic score, 2nd (tied !!!) in autocross. I had gone to Gainesville knowing a stockish Miata wouldn't score well and I was persuaded by a couple of the other competitors to do the concourse. I gained a couple of points, but still got passed by 4 slower cars in the concourse. I could argue both ways. I know how the concourse works and chose not to waste a lot of time on it, so I expected to drop down the order. On the other hand I wouldn't miss the concourse one bit if it were to disappear. What I would like to see would be 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place recognition for overall dynamic scores. I'd shoot for that and just skip the judging. That's the musings of an engineer.
In any case , I'll be back next year. Build the Alfa and bring it. I doubt any pile of Italian crap can successfully take on precision Japanese engineering anyway
. Since I'm a transplanted Canuck I'll propose a side bet where, like in curling, the winner buys the beer.
In reply to DeadSkunk :
LOL. An Alfa with an Alfa motor got FTD before a Miata did with a Miata motor at the challenge. 
Still, BTDT. Have less of a reason to come down, again.
For what it's worth, I LOVE that the Insight won the concours- I've always thought normal concours events were kind of silly, and am really glad that there's somewhere that doing something insane and making it work is worth more than perfectly polishing whatever some large manufacturer cranked out years ago. If I'm the target market for this event, then GRM is nailing it.
Maybe we need to call it something else since it doesn't work the same way as other concours events? In FSAE it would be called "design judging."
My goal for next year is to "win" the dynamic score, take the 12 at concourse, and leave the trunk and hood closed to "keep 'em guessing".
We have an update on next year's event date. It will not be on October 19-20 like we thought. It's looking like it will be the weekend prior: October 12-13, 2018. Just waiting on a final thumbs-up from the track.
This year was so much fun for me that I will be back.
Additionally, an old friend who lives nearby came out and within an hour or so had a subscription and was starting to formulate his own build for next year.
Thanks for putting the show on.
Ed Higginbotham said:
We have an update on next year's event date. It will not be on October 19-20 like we thought. It's looking like it will be the weekend prior: October 12-13, 2018. Just waiting on a final thumbs-up from the track.
No...... you can’t. :sadpanda:
First Generation Insights have the best CD of any I.C.E. production car, and weighed stock around 1800 lbs. Cheap used ones are available for any race endeavor, I highly recommend them.
Driven5
SuperDork
10/24/17 1:54 a.m.
Tom Suddard said:
I know that the concours will never be popular with engineers, because there is no single correct answer.
I think it depends on how you 'sell' the concours to engineers. Remember, engineers are trained to do is believe that their ideas are great and to be able to prove that they are right.
I liked Calvin's car. I love Pontiac's the car looked good . what does a Fuel Injector test stand Have to do with the Concours? seems to me that was more a distraction to the Judges. 'but That was Kool ' you say, then go to auto zone or your Fav. auto parts store and be Mesmerized by the Spray Pattern. those tools get passed around from Store to store on a regular basis to sell New Injectors, anyone finding that Interesting doesn't know anything about cars. like 5th graders. Calvin I like your Cars so keep it up and see you next year.
Now the Funny Car, If you all just FMV the basic parts the answer is NO. I hear all the love for Poppa Nelson, He was Rude to me. I can Only assume it's because I DO know what it takes to Run 9's. Once you convince yourself that you are Legal it's easier to Convince others that you are Also. Ask me how I know. a Friend that was there that also Raced Professionally. didn't look at it for more than a minute and walked away shaking his head. Awesome Pass though.
I already got on the boy's from GT, Sadly he Agreed with Me, Lol Lol Lol. Go Jacket's
Ed Higginbotham said:
We have an update on next year's event date. It will not be on October 19-20 like we thought. It's looking like it will be the weekend prior: October 12-13, 2018. Just waiting on a final thumbs-up from the track.
berkeley dude! I need that extra week with what we're looking to accomplish.
So every year the concours is bitched about by non competitors. Every year I understand it a little more, but every year the judges are different so it doesn't matter year to year what has changed. I can guarantee if last year's judges judged this year I would have scored higher because they would have seen all the areas the car improved. With the exception of svrex none of the other judges had ever seen the car before. I think I kinda prefer that, as it puts everyone on a similar playing field if you're bringing a multi year car. I looked at the GT car as "oh great they brought the magic fall apart honda abortion again " until I watched it stay together and talked to one of their 5th year program kids while we were cleaning the cars. They deserve points for realizing the faults of previous designs and engineering ways to make it work. And I'll be damned if they didn't edge me by a hair in the dynamic scoring to bump me to 3rd. I was impressed by every one of those kids, the high schoolers as well.
someone brought up recognition for Dynamic scores. I'd like to see it as a ribbon under the car in the challenge issue in the standings like 1-3 in autocross and drags do, to help indicate the top all around racecars prior to concours. Until this year that was all I cared about, this year I put lots and lots of hours into the overall impression the car gives. Mechanically my work speaks for itself, with a little pointing out, but it was hard for me to put metal fabricating aside and get creative with the looks and transform the Datsun into something it wasn't before. And you know what? I'm in love with the car all over again.
thanks for the great weekend everyone, I have a blast when I remember to keep it fun. Next year we're shooting for the overall win while having as good as time not worrying about scores as we did this year.
build an all around car, build a car to excel at 1/3 the event, buy a car that sucks at all 3 and win the party. It doesn't matter, just show up. If you show up and still don't get it, it's probably best you stay online and armchair quarterback away all year.
GTXVette said:
I liked Calvin's car. I love Pontiac's the car looked good . what does a Fuel Injector test stand Have to do with the Concours? seems to me that was more a distraction to the Judges. 'but That was Kool ' you say, then go to auto zone or your Fav. auto parts store and be Mesmerized by the Spray Pattern. those tools get passed around from Store to store on a regular basis to sell New Injectors, anyone finding that Interesting doesn't know anything about cars. like 5th graders. Calvin I like your Cars so keep it up and see you next year.
Now the Funny Car, If you all just FMV the basic parts the answer is NO. I hear all the love for Poppa Nelson, He was Rude to me. I can Only assume it's because I DO know what it takes to Run 9's. Once you convince yourself that you are Legal it's easier to Convince others that you are Also. Ask me how I know. a Friend that was there that also Raced Professionally. didn't look at it for more than a minute and walked away shaking his head. Awesome Pass though.
I already got on the boy's from GT, Sadly he Agreed with Me, Lol Lol Lol. Go Jacket's
I normally don't respond to these types of comments, but I think I can answer a few of the questions/comments you have.
I believe you missed the point of the injector test stand. It had nothing to do with the fact that it was a home made injector test stand, because that is only mildly interesting. What was cool about it was I took a set of stock injectors and decapped them, making them flow like $400-$500 injectors. I did not even operate the thing in front of the judges. It was just there to show the difference in flow between stock and decapped injectors.
By "funny car", I assume you are talking about my dad's Datsun. The cylinder heads were cracked when we bought them. Then we fixed them with help from some friends. I don't think it would be fair to have to FMV a part you bought cheap because it was damaged, after you fixed it. The engine was worn out when we got it, but we ran it anyways. I will talk to my dad about posting the pictures of the cylinder walls. I could go on..
Hope that cleared a few things up for you.
