irish44j said:llysgennad said:In reply to irish44j :
I would say "it's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand" but I won't.
I'll just keep driving my Jeep with the top off and the windshield down.
Us XJ owners never do understand.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But you can take the doors off at least 
I would bet that more than 50% of Jeep owners don't even know that their windshields fold down.
On the previous Wrangler, it was so hard to fold it down they might not have. It was basically only technically possible.
I can fold the windshield on my Land Rover by loosening two wing nuts. It's breezy.
In reply to stanger_missle :
You can take the top off, too, it's just harder to put back on. Don't get me wrong, I love my XJ. It's awesome. For a 4x4 wagon.
I too buy new vehicles. Just this year in fact. And I'm actively shopping for another truck or suv. And I love Jeeps. Guess what vehicle hits those criteria. The JT, like I said earlier, is not my ideal. It doesn't exist. But it's really close. Probably close enough. It is aimed directly at me.
As far as off road capability for a stock Wrangler... JL>JK>TJ>>YJ>CJ. It's called evolution, it even applies to Jeeps.
I know I am in the minority, but I really wish they had made this as the first re-entry to a compact truck market. I am saddened that Ford reintroduced the Ranger as a mid-size, but it was inevitable. Mid-size trucks have out grown the label IMO.
That said, I am happy to see a real manual trans option! Make mine a reg.cab with enough room behind the seats to stow the freedom panels, manual/manual, slap a Comanche decal on the side, and hand me a pen. I am not even a Mopar fan...
Judge me as you will, but I would totally mall crawl the hell out of one around town, with the top dropped, doors off, and windshield down. That complete open air experience is half the reason for getting one of these vs any other tin top truck.
irish44j said:ebonyandivory said:I folded the windshield down on my Samurais (bought the factory hardware) all the time. Sure made it cooler to drive in the summer months.
That being said, let not get into the discussion about “people want stuff they won’t even use”.
I hate that kind of judgement/snobbery.
I'd say the alternate argument could be made that by having a fixed windshield, Jeeps would 1) probably be lighter, 2) probably be safer in a rollover, and 3) probably cost a bit less just due to less hardware. It doesn't have to be an snob thing, it can simply be a matter of practicality.
Everyone has his or her opinion. The thing is, too many people push their opinions into other peoples personal choices. Then that turns into judgement, I’ve seen it here many times and each time there’s a small, vocal group railing against that type of judgement. I don’t care if you think something i might like is impractical (not you personally, no offense intended) or not.
Just recall the threads that turned into “you shouldn’t own a full size pickup, you don’t tow, don’t use the bed blah blah blah”
And I was obviously referring to the posts that mentioned the amount of people that just wanted the ability to fold the windshield but would likely never do it. Who the hell cares why people want it? Certainly not me.
Ya know how many single people and childless couples own new $70,000 Yukon’s and the like? I only care because in 10 years I’ll be able to buy them used!
ebonyandivory said:irish44j said:ebonyandivory said:I folded the windshield down on my Samurais (bought the factory hardware) all the time. Sure made it cooler to drive in the summer months.
That being said, let not get into the discussion about “people want stuff they won’t even use”.
I hate that kind of judgement/snobbery.
I'd say the alternate argument could be made that by having a fixed windshield, Jeeps would 1) probably be lighter, 2) probably be safer in a rollover, and 3) probably cost a bit less just due to less hardware. It doesn't have to be an snob thing, it can simply be a matter of practicality.
Everyone has his or her opinion. The thing is, too many people push their opinions into other peoples personal choices. Then that turns into judgement, I’ve seen it here many times and each time there’s a small, vocal group railing against that type of judgement. I don’t care if you think something i might like is impractical (not you personally, no offense intended) or not.
Just recall the threads that turned into “you shouldn’t own a full size pickup, you don’t tow, don’t use the bed blah blah blah”
And I was obviously referring to the posts that mentioned the amount of people that just wanted the ability to fold the windshield but would likely never do it. Who the hell cares why people want it? Certainly not me.
Ya know how many single people and childless couples own new $70,000 Yukon’s and the like? I only care because in 10 years I’ll be able to buy them used!
true, but I think there's a difference between saying "it shouldn't have that because that's stupid" vs. "it shouldn't have that because (here's some rational/practical reasons). I don't actually care about the windshield (or stick axles in front, or whatever). I just enjoy the discussion about the pros/cons of features on vehicles - both for my own education and for the sake of discussion.
I mean, we could just have this thread full of posts that say "The Gladiator is SICK!!" but that would be pretty boring.. That's what facebook is for lol.
I certainly have posted things here where people have said "that's a bad idea" or whatnot. It annoys me for about 1 second, and then I decide either 1) Let me explain WHY it's actually a good idea or 2) oh yeah, now that someone mentions it maybe it IS a bad idea and I've changed my mind and learned something.
As to the windshield - its just an academic argument, really. Mostly because I'd love see the Gladiator available for $35k without all the extraneous stuff that drive the price up to $50k or whatever. It's the story with most trucks/SUVs these days, which sucks for people who want a "raw" vehicle or something purely utilitarian without all the lux features - Heck, I'm kind of surprised Jeep doesn't make a fixed windshield as a "base" and then make the fold-down windshield part of a $$$$ package of some sort. Charge $500 for it even though it's $50 in parts :)
bigdaddylee82 said:
I couldn't not fix this. MSpaintchop
Edit: One more, just because I can.
In reply to Slammo :
Perfect!
An all new Comanche.
Folding down the windshield on JL isn't going to help you with trail clearance, but it should still prevent you being targeted by German artillery.
This is the most redneck statement ever but I'd love to drop the windshield on one and cruise the strip at Panama City Beach.
Slammo said:bigdaddylee82 said:
I couldn't not fix this. MSpaintchop
Edit: One more, just because I can.
I would buy this. I would sell things to make room to buy this. I love this.
mazdeuce - Seth said:Slammo said:bigdaddylee82 said:
I couldn't not fix this. MSpaintchop
Edit: One more, just because I can.
I would buy this. I would sell things to make room to buy this. I love this.
Ford starts selling that one in January, but you'll have to do the rims and tires yourself.
In reply to ultraclyde :
That's like suggesting a blue Mistubishi Mighty Max is basically the same as that Ranger because they're both small and blue.
mazdeuce - Seth said:Slammo said:
Edit: One more, just because I can.
I would buy this. I would sell things to make room to buy this. I love this.
Yup, that's my jam!!
In reply to ultraclyde :
Unfortunately the Ranger doesn't have the manual trans or open roof to make my pants tight or loosen my signature signing fingers
In reply to ultraclyde :
Wrangler: solid front axle
Ranger: IFS.
I worked in the aftermarket Jeep business for three years. This thing will print money for the accessories market. Yes, most of them will be sold to suburban Dads who will never take it offoad, but they are already driving four door pickups that have never hauled anything bigger than a bag of mulch from Home Depot. It makes them happy, so who cares.
I do have an odd take on it though. This may be the right work truck for some people. If you work off the beaten path and need something to carry equipment and a crew, this may be the ticket. Not enough to justify the entire production, but it will be interesting to see if fleet managers pick up a few for testing.
In reply to John Welsh :
Kinda like the old full size Ford Bronco's. That'd be super cool!
In response to all the ranger-disparaging comments, sorry. I forgot this was about image and not function.
sorry, sorry, just trolling a little. I get the removable top and manual comments (although the Bronco is getting a 7sp manual, so the Ranger might eventually), but for a pick up the IFS vs solid axle is a purely academic discussion. They will be equally capable in 95% of situations. In rock crawling soilds have an edge, IFS has the edge in interstate drivability.
I really do like the way the 2 door render looks, but having that small a cab makes it the same kind of 'play vehicle' as the 2 door Wrangler for me. It won't do half the stuff I need a truck to do, so there's no reason to buy it. Same goes for the extended cab midsize trucks. Hell, the extended cab OBS F250 was kind of a problem, but at least it was cheap.
mazdeuce - Seth said:Slammo said:bigdaddylee82 said:
I couldn't not fix this. MSpaintchop
Edit: One more, just because I can.
I would buy this. I would sell things to make room to buy this. I love this.
Mopar has been selling the kit to do this for a while, AEV before that. Not quite the towing capability of the Gladiator, though. And I'm sure you know a hemi fits pretty well.
But I think this concept was tailored for you.. The Mighty FC!!
Back to the almighty folding windshield debate
Will we get the white roof and lower panels?
ultraclyde said:
Folding down the windshield on JL isn't going to help you with trail clearance, but it should still prevent you being targeted by German artillery.
This is the most redneck statement ever but I'd love to drop the windshield on one and cruise the strip at Panama City Beach.
But it actually does help with trail clearance, since what you are trying to clear is your windshield and frame.
Let me put this another way. This is my Scrambler I built back in the early '90s, before most people even realized what one was.
I built my own D90 style external cage, since I hated getting damage to my windshield and hardtop, and my wife hated getting soaked and cold on the trail. Does this Jeep have more trail clearance? No, but the top and windshield frame would always have 3" of clearance from every tree and rock wall that threatened it. You can see where paint has been worn off the bars along the roof, and I had repainted them before this trip.
This photo also shows the problem with departure angle. I angle cut the back of the tub from the back of the wheelwell to the bottom of the bed, even shortening the frame extentions in the back and recessing a receiver hitch a few inches under the back of the tub. Still wasn't enough in this instance.
llysgennad said:Mopar has been selling the kit to do this for a while, AEV before that. Not quite the towing capability of the Gladiator, though. And I'm sure you know a hemi fits pretty well.
Linky please?
Keith Tanner said:And if Jeep was really paying attention to what the market has told them, they probably wouldn't try yet another pickup truck. The Scrambler averaged about 5500 sales per year. The Comanche did much better, with about 24,000 per year. Still, that's only about 3% of Jeep's yearly sales right now, or 12.5% of Wrangler sales. So maybe they know their audience.
Interestingly, it looks like roughly 60% of Comanches were 2WD, which would imply that they were simply small pickups and not bought as offroaders.
I truly hope you aren't trying to suggest "the market" in 1981-1985 is the same as today.
We were in a recession; not much was selling, especially toys. Also, AMC had their own issues that contributed to CJ quality and design. Bear in mind that overseas military versions of the YJ were still being sold with the same 103.5" WB that the Scrambler had.
Remember, "the market" in the early '80s told us that 4 door pickups weren't very big sellers, and people wanted standard cabs.
And compact trucks. Which is what both the CJ8 and Comanche were brought out to capture part of the Minitruck Market And we know how well that market is doing today, don't we??
The Comanche came out in 1986, while the Scrambler went to 1984. The CJ8 was simply a stopgap until the MJ could be sold.
Neither XJs nor MJs were marketed as offroad specific rigs when they came out, any more than S10 Blazer was.
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