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alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
2/19/19 7:41 p.m.

I could ask a bunch of questions. But for this thread, I hope this new version solves those issues. 

Dave M
Dave M Reader
2/19/19 8:09 p.m.
bcp2011 said:

Honest question - for folks that dislike the car for power reasons, what are the alternatives if you want a fixed roof and usable trunk?  E46 330 or something?  

I'm sure we all want more power / lower weight / cheaper price, but you know, reality and all that... 

Boostang, even though it's not really a comparable car, it is a practical car...

bcp2011
bcp2011 Reader
2/19/19 9:50 p.m.
Dave M said:

Boostang, even though it's not really a comparable car, it is a practical car...

That's the thing, the FoST is an even more practical car, but FWD... so it just seems like a slippery slope until the essence of a simple sports car is no longer there.  

Just to be clear I'm not here to defend the car even though I own one.  I did some serious research on the 2.0T 1LE Camaro when it first came out but that thing is close to 3500lbs and I just can't get over that.  I just love light weight cars so much more than meaty ones.  Another one that came to mind is a 2 series - those are ~3100 lbs if ordered without the sunroof and with plain seats.  Not bad given the power, but certainly not a lightweight...  Ugh I wish there are more choices! 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
2/20/19 7:21 a.m.
bcp2011 said:
Dave M said:

Boostang, even though it's not really a comparable car, it is a practical car...

That's the thing, the FoST is an even more practical car, but FWD... so it just seems like a slippery slope until the essence of a simple sports car is no longer there.  

Just to be clear I'm not here to defend the car even though I own one.  I did some serious research on the 2.0T 1LE Camaro when it first came out but that thing is close to 3500lbs and I just can't get over that.  I just love light weight cars so much more than meaty ones.  Another one that came to mind is a 2 series - those are ~3100 lbs if ordered without the sunroof and with plain seats.  Not bad given the power, but certainly not a lightweight...  Ugh I wish there are more choices! 

BRZ + Edelbrock supercharger. 

Yes, you lose your 5/60k drivetrain warranty. But if installed by ASE tech, Edelbrock will still give you a 3/36k drivetrain warranty. So it would be best advised to start with a new one. The warranty lasts until 3/36k, not 3/36k after the Supercharger is installed.

bcp2011
bcp2011 Reader
2/20/19 8:46 a.m.
z31maniac said:

BRZ + Edelbrock supercharger. 

Yes, you lose your 5/60k drivetrain warranty. But if installed by ASE tech, Edelbrock will still give you a 3/36k drivetrain warranty. So it would be best advised to start with a new one. The warranty lasts until 3/36k, not 3/36k after the Supercharger is installed.

Good option, especially if warranty is needed.  It seems for maybe not much more an LS swap could be a candidate as well...  I have a 13 so either way it's no longer covered by anything.  :)

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
2/20/19 11:16 a.m.
bcp2011 said:
z31maniac said:

BRZ + Edelbrock supercharger. 

Yes, you lose your 5/60k drivetrain warranty. But if installed by ASE tech, Edelbrock will still give you a 3/36k drivetrain warranty. So it would be best advised to start with a new one. The warranty lasts until 3/36k, not 3/36k after the Supercharger is installed.

Good option, especially if warranty is needed.  It seems for maybe not much more an LS swap could be a candidate as well...  I have a 13 so either way it's no longer covered by anything.  :)

No warranty, install it yourself in an afternoon. 

A proper LS swap in a twin is going to be 3-6x the cost of the Edelbrock Supercharger depending on your ratio of new/used and buying/fabricating parts. 

bcp2011
bcp2011 Reader
2/20/19 11:30 a.m.
z31maniac said:

No warranty, install it yourself in an afternoon. 

A proper LS swap in a twin is going to be 3-6x the cost of the Edelbrock Supercharger depending on your ratio of new/used and buying/fabricating parts. 

Just looked up how much the SC is - holy smokes!  And if the LS swap is 3x that it's basically the cost of the car!  No thanks - probably just stick to nitrous.  

just kidding, not on nitrous.  :)

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
2/20/19 11:40 a.m.

In reply to bcp2011 :

As mentioned, it'll probably depend on the level of fabricating and parts sourcing you can do, but easily 3x or more, based on the pricing in the WGP swap kit.  Which ranges from $3200 to $11K, not including the engine and transmission. There may be cheaper kits, but that's what a quick bit of Google came up with, which seems roughly in line with FM's pricing on Miata kits.  Bearing in mind, it's not just the materials, but the time and research that has gone into making a kit that generally works every time.  

Dave M
Dave M Reader
2/20/19 2:18 p.m.
bcp2011 said:
Dave M said:

Boostang, even though it's not really a comparable car, it is a practical car...

That's the thing, the FoST is an even more practical car, but FWD... so it just seems like a slippery slope until the essence of a simple sports car is no longer there.  

Just to be clear I'm not here to defend the car even though I own one.  I did some serious research on the 2.0T 1LE Camaro when it first came out but that thing is close to 3500lbs and I just can't get over that.  I just love light weight cars so much more than meaty ones.  Another one that came to mind is a 2 series - those are ~3100 lbs if ordered without the sunroof and with plain seats.  Not bad given the power, but certainly not a lightweight...  Ugh I wish there are more choices! 

Well I guess there's always a Cayman, although that is twice the price and no longer a N/A 6.

The supercharger option is great, but once you get into modding and/or used cars I end up asking questions like, why not just throw this same money at a C5 Z06 and make something really fast? 

Wiscocrashtest
Wiscocrashtest New Reader
2/20/19 3:10 p.m.
bcp2011 said:
Dave M said:

Boostang, even though it's not really a comparable car, it is a practical car...

That's the thing, the FoST is an even more practical car, but FWD... so it just seems like a slippery slope until the essence of a simple sports car is no longer there.  

I own a BRZ and a FoST. I've also driven a few EB Mustangs. The Mustang feels like a different animal from the other two. Feels way bigger, way heavier. A really nice all-around car and a nice place to be in - but it's not a car the eggs you on like the Focus or 86.

The Focus and BRZ are also quite different. The number that tells the story is 120. That's how much more torque the FoST has. It just pulls. There's no point to winding it out, but above 2500rpm it just goes. It feels (to me) like a little too much motor for the chassis and you're sort of fighting it a lot when on the street. It works better on the track, and the factory handling is great. You really can get the car to dance around, something I've never experience before in FWD.

The BRZ is even better on the track. Its scalpel-precise and totally content to play around as much as you like. You feel more in control of what's going on instead of riding the bronco that is the FoST torque. The driving position and how low-low the car is feels more special. The shifter is better, steering is better, seats are better. The radio is garbage and there's a lot of road noise. But when you're really pressing on the BRZ really shines compared to the Focus. It's almost as good as my 986 was.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
2/20/19 4:48 p.m.
Dave M said:
bcp2011 said:
Dave M said:

Boostang, even though it's not really a comparable car, it is a practical car...

That's the thing, the FoST is an even more practical car, but FWD... so it just seems like a slippery slope until the essence of a simple sports car is no longer there.  

Just to be clear I'm not here to defend the car even though I own one.  I did some serious research on the 2.0T 1LE Camaro when it first came out but that thing is close to 3500lbs and I just can't get over that.  I just love light weight cars so much more than meaty ones.  Another one that came to mind is a 2 series - those are ~3100 lbs if ordered without the sunroof and with plain seats.  Not bad given the power, but certainly not a lightweight...  Ugh I wish there are more choices! 

Well I guess there's always a Cayman, although that is twice the price and no longer a N/A 6.

The supercharger option is great, but once you get into modding and/or used cars I end up asking questions like, why not just throw this same money at a C5 Z06 and make something really fast? 

Not everyone wants 90s styling with a garbage interior?

bcp2011
bcp2011 Reader
2/20/19 5:00 p.m.
Dave M said:

Well I guess there's always a Cayman, although that is twice the price and no longer a N/A 6.

The supercharger option is great, but once you get into modding and/or used cars I end up asking questions like, why not just throw this same money at a C5 Z06 and make something really fast? 

Hard to argue with C5 Z06 performance / price ratio...  Just don't think I'm good enough to take full advantage of it for a while!

bcp2011
bcp2011 Reader
2/20/19 5:04 p.m.

In reply to Wiscocrashtest :

Haven't driven those other cars mentioned but have had chances to ride in them on track.  They feel very different...  Still ready for a Cayman GT4 though!  wink

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
2/20/19 9:14 p.m.
z31maniac said:
Dave M said:
bcp2011 said:
Dave M said:

Boostang, even though it's not really a comparable car, it is a practical car...

That's the thing, the FoST is an even more practical car, but FWD... so it just seems like a slippery slope until the essence of a simple sports car is no longer there.  

Just to be clear I'm not here to defend the car even though I own one.  I did some serious research on the 2.0T 1LE Camaro when it first came out but that thing is close to 3500lbs and I just can't get over that.  I just love light weight cars so much more than meaty ones.  Another one that came to mind is a 2 series - those are ~3100 lbs if ordered without the sunroof and with plain seats.  Not bad given the power, but certainly not a lightweight...  Ugh I wish there are more choices! 

Well I guess there's always a Cayman, although that is twice the price and no longer a N/A 6.

The supercharger option is great, but once you get into modding and/or used cars I end up asking questions like, why not just throw this same money at a C5 Z06 and make something really fast? 

Not everyone wants 90s styling with a garbage interior?

Hard to get a C5 with a warranty these days, too.

Cotton
Cotton PowerDork
2/20/19 10:05 p.m.
z31maniac said:
Dave M said:
bcp2011 said:
Dave M said:

Boostang, even though it's not really a comparable car, it is a practical car...

That's the thing, the FoST is an even more practical car, but FWD... so it just seems like a slippery slope until the essence of a simple sports car is no longer there.  

Just to be clear I'm not here to defend the car even though I own one.  I did some serious research on the 2.0T 1LE Camaro when it first came out but that thing is close to 3500lbs and I just can't get over that.  I just love light weight cars so much more than meaty ones.  Another one that came to mind is a 2 series - those are ~3100 lbs if ordered without the sunroof and with plain seats.  Not bad given the power, but certainly not a lightweight...  Ugh I wish there are more choices! 

Well I guess there's always a Cayman, although that is twice the price and no longer a N/A 6.

The supercharger option is great, but once you get into modding and/or used cars I end up asking questions like, why not just throw this same money at a C5 Z06 and make something really fast? 

Not everyone wants 90s styling with a garbage interior?

The brz interior is nothing special.  

te72
te72 Reader
2/21/19 1:25 a.m.

In reply to Furious_E :

Bingo. If you're gonna put in a button to turn off a feature, make it, you know, functional. If the lawyers are worried about the results, perhaps disclaim warranty repairs if that button is active. Make the driver hold the button down or confirm with something like a push of a particular button on the dash. Easy enough...

te72
te72 Reader
2/21/19 1:49 a.m.

In reply to Cotton :

Seats in a C5 are awful in comparison to seats from the twins. I say this despite having a very longstanding love affair with the C5, but I will say that the interior brings the whole experience down, overall. The seats in the twins feel like a lot of Recaros I've sat in.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
2/21/19 7:15 a.m.
Cotton said:
z31maniac said:
Dave M said:
bcp2011 said:
Dave M said:

Boostang, even though it's not really a comparable car, it is a practical car...

That's the thing, the FoST is an even more practical car, but FWD... so it just seems like a slippery slope until the essence of a simple sports car is no longer there.  

Just to be clear I'm not here to defend the car even though I own one.  I did some serious research on the 2.0T 1LE Camaro when it first came out but that thing is close to 3500lbs and I just can't get over that.  I just love light weight cars so much more than meaty ones.  Another one that came to mind is a 2 series - those are ~3100 lbs if ordered without the sunroof and with plain seats.  Not bad given the power, but certainly not a lightweight...  Ugh I wish there are more choices! 

Well I guess there's always a Cayman, although that is twice the price and no longer a N/A 6.

The supercharger option is great, but once you get into modding and/or used cars I end up asking questions like, why not just throw this same money at a C5 Z06 and make something really fast? 

Not everyone wants 90s styling with a garbage interior?

The brz interior is nothing special.  

Sure, it's no BMW M car, but the Limited with the Alcantara is dramatically better than the C5. 

YMMV, different strokes for different folks, it's the internet so my opinion is always rights, and all that. 

OldGray320i
OldGray320i Dork
2/21/19 3:08 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

My question or comment was really more of a " this is a cheap easy fix for next year" and why wouldn't they?

Unless it's not that simple, and since you're engine management (or close),  I figured you'd know if it's as simple a "fix" as it seems.

The "why's" are up to the suits at SubToy.

barefootskater
barefootskater Dork
2/21/19 3:32 p.m.

Today I learned that I could get a brand new sexy mustang with 310hp and 6 gears for well, well under $30k. So thanks for that.

I work at the big T and I have never driven a twin. I think there are some things in my life I need to change.

Mr_Clutch42
Mr_Clutch42 SuperDork
2/21/19 8:58 p.m.

Now that I just bought an '06 Jetta TDI 5-speed last month, my next toy car needs to be a '14-'15 BRZ (after I fix my broken Miata cheeky)

bcp2011
bcp2011 Reader
2/21/19 9:22 p.m.
Mr_Clutch42 said:

Now that I just bought an '06 Jetta TDI 5-speed last month, my next toy car needs to be a '14-'15 BRZ (after I fix my broken Miata cheeky)

Go for a 15+ if possible.  Small issues have been solved by then (e.g., the ignition coils tend to go bad when taken on track and exposed to high temps for extended periods - I've changed two of them at the track and keep a couple of them on hand for just this issue).  

Mr_Clutch42
Mr_Clutch42 SuperDork
2/22/19 5:32 p.m.

In reply to bcp2011 :

For the 15+, did they figure out how to fix the engine oil overheating? I specifically remember that being an odd problem for a new sports car.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
2/24/19 8:16 p.m.
Mr_Clutch42 said:

In reply to bcp2011 :

For the 15+, did they figure out how to fix the engine oil overheating? I specifically remember that being an odd problem for a new sports car.

On track, no. They need an oil cooler. So do new Miata's, Camaros, Mustangs, Corvettes, etc.

I'm not sure why this seems odd.

te72
te72 Reader
2/24/19 10:18 p.m.
z31maniac said:
Mr_Clutch42 said:

In reply to bcp2011 :

For the 15+, did they figure out how to fix the engine oil overheating? I specifically remember that being an odd problem for a new sports car.

On track, no. They need an oil cooler. So do new Miata's, Camaros, Mustangs, Corvettes, etc.

I'm not sure why this seems odd.

I'm not sure why any car that has these sorts of intentions is sold without an oil cooler, honestly. Sure, it's an extra $100 or so, but surely that isn't gonna make or break enough sales that it is worth NOT setting the car up correctl from the factory?

 

I mean, the new car has a warranty. That warranty presumably covers engine damage due to oil that's pushed past its limits, I would think. I guess the easiest thing to do would be to recommend a particular oil for track use.

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