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  • sevenracer

    March 13, 2010 10:07 a.m. sevenracer New Reader

    So, I posted a while back about being interested in a 2010 4-door GTI but not sure I wanted to take the risk on reliability.

    I had to put the new car thing on hold for a while due to some other stuff in my life, and now that I thinking about it again, I am shifting focus a bit.

    I have been looking at E46 4 door 330i's with the ZHP package. I actually drove one that popped up locally.

    The car in question is beautiful, but there are some things that are a little off:

    1. Car is offered by a small dealer that deals in cars like this - slightly used European perf cars. They bought it at auction in Texas. 2 owners - 1 for 6 months, the other up until Jan 2010.

    2. Paint work is perfect - no scratches or any rock chips anywhere - seems too nice for 65k miles.

    3. CarFax indicates damage to left side back in 2007. I didn't get under the car, but no evidence I could see in the trunk, engine comp, door jambs, etc.

    4. Dealer put M5 19" replica wheels on - they look good, actually very similar to the 18" ZHP wheels, but the rears rubbed a little on the test drive. Dealer said he had a machine to roll the fenders if needed (he's an E36 nut - built several track cars). I would prefer the 18" stockers.

    5. 2nd gear synchro's seemed very slightly off. Didn't grind, but didn't snick right in either.

    6. Only one key, no spare, no owner's manuals. No security code for the radio. Assuming I can get all of that as needed.

    7. Windows are tinted - would have it removed - not sure if there will be a problem with residue afterwards.

    8. No maintenance records - haven't tried to call a BMW dealer yet to see what they have.

    Overall, It's a car I really like, in phenomenal condition. These are pretty rare (only 16 for sale on cars.com incl AUTO trans) and this one is the right color - Imola red. I would do a PPI for sure. Buy in would be about 9-10k less than a new GTI. Of course no warranty, etc.

    The dealer was cool about the missing stuff, saying he could get it, but that may impact his bottom line price -

    Thoughts? Any known problems with the ZHP cars? How about the 6spd manual? Anybody ever pull window tint off - any ill effects? I am pretty set on a ZHP if I get an E46. Any other car would almost certainly not be local, making test drive, PPI, etc a hassle.

    My DD today is an E36 328i that I really like, but has about 160k miles now, and I need a DD that needs little time investment from me. Ideally just maintenance, and no unexpected repairs.

    Thanks, Neil

  • 02Pilot

    March 13, 2010 10:28 a.m. 02Pilot Reader

    A good PDR guy can make a car look near-new; that may be the case with this one, but it is obviously prudent to have a PPI done by someone intimately familiar with these cars.

    If the wheels were intended for an E39, the hub centers will be too big for the E46 hubs, meaning they won't be hubcentric and may cause vibrations. Best to get properly-fitting wheels in any case.

    Manual transmissions are usually pretty robust. A fluid change may be all that's needed (Redline MTL or MT90 would be my choice, depending on climate), but it's impossible to say.

    Keys aren't cheap - figure a couple hundred each. Not sure about the radio code, but the other stuff should be easy enough to replace.

    BMW dealer will have records of warranty and no-cost maintenance done at all dealers. Any records of other work done will be specific to the dealer at which the work was performed. Some dealers will happily provide a car's history; others won't. YMMV.

    Plan for a cooling system replacement around 100k miles and a CCV system replacement around the same time. VANOS seals and the oil filter housing gasket can be done then as well. Maybe $1000 worth of parts in total.

  • joey48442

    March 13, 2010 10:29 a.m. joey48442 SuperDork

    The tint should come off easily, a little residue may be left behind but it will scrape off. Rolling fenders always scared me on a street car as it seems like a good spot to collect crap. I would expect extra keys on a car that expensive. Could the one owner for six monthes be the first dealer? Or maybe it was someone who bought it and then got pregnant with triplets and realized they needed a van?

    Joey

  • PeterAK

    March 13, 2010 11:02 a.m. PeterAK Dork

    You can easily get the radio code from the service department of your local BMW dealer. I had the same issue with my E36 and all it took was one phone call.

    If you end up buying the car drive it with tinted windows for a few weeks before you remove the tint. You may find that you really like it. If you don't, spray with ammonia window cleaner and then cover with saran wrap for a while. Peel and clean the remaining residue. I haven't done it, but the guy at the shop who tinted my car said it isn't too much work.

  • Travis_K

    March 13, 2010 12:01 p.m. Travis_K Dork

    Honestly, that doesnt sound good to me at all. An expensive euro car with no maintaince records, cheap wheels that dont fit, transmission that iasnt working as well as it should even with low miles, tinted windows and has been in an accident? It may be fine, but it doesnt sound like a car that has been taken care of well. Is an e36 really worn out with 160k miles? Id normally expect a car to last 2x that long without any major problems (beyond clutch, alternator, fuel pump and other such things) before its too worn out to drive anymore.

  • BoxheadTim

    March 13, 2010 12:42 p.m. BoxheadTim HalfDork

    4,5,6 & 8 set alarm bells ringing. I don't like the Carfax bit too much either but if it's done properly and reflected in the price, I wouldn't be too bothered.

    I also find it a bit strange that he put on different wheels. Did he offer you the original wheels? If not, why? If he put the 19" ones on, where are the 18" ones?

  • sevenracer

    March 13, 2010 2:19 p.m. sevenracer New Reader

    Tim

    4 - per the dealer, the car came from auction with aftermarket wheels that had curb rash and worn out tires. So, he opted to fit these. He did say that these wheels were hub centric - so, it may not be correct to call them M5 replica's.

    5 - I may have overstated this one. It shifts better than my 328, and better than my wife's 100k mi Miata. 2nd gear seemed notchy compared to the other gears. I'd have to doublecheck my impressions there.

    6 & 8 - I think this is a consequence of going through auction. I have seen this multiple times at small car lots - seemingly nice cars with missing manuals and only one key. I am planning to have the BMW dealer do the PPI - they will pull up the BMW service records at that time.

    So, I don't know, the dealer is a younger guy and a BMW enthusiast, and he's modded a bunch of e36's - so fitting different wheels may just be a habit for him. He doesn't have a traditional lot - he keeps all his cars inside a warehouse, does test drives by appt -and they were all immaculate.

    It was pretty much a one owner car until January. The owner kept the car 3 years after whatever body damage occurred, so it didn't seem they were scared to own it afterward.

    If I let this one go, I will almost certainly have to be very patient and then travel to get another one with the right color, etc. I seriously doubt the cosmetics would be as nice as this one. And the ones I am seeing are listed at prices 1-2k higher at traditional dealerships.

    I would swap the wheels for something else - stockers if they aren't crazy expensive. I think I can sell the 19 inchers with brand new tires for decent money.

    Oh and Travis - the 328 isn't nearly worn out, but I am not really looking to keep it for the second half of its useful life.

  • March 13, 2010 3:34 p.m. z31maniac Dork

    I'd love to have one of these.

    But I'd probably only buy one from an individual that could provide flawless maintenance records.

    Otherwise I'll stick to old BMWs.

  • BoxheadTim

    March 17, 2010 8:56 a.m. BoxheadTim HalfDork

    Ah yes, put that way, 4 makes sense. I'd still research the wheels.

    Auctions over here tend to lose things like keys and maintenance records as well, hence my comment about it being reflected in the price. If the BMW dealer can pull up the service records and doesn't find anything horrible during the PPI it might well prove to be a decent buy...

    +1 for buying from an enthusiast dealer, as long as the car itself isn't a shed.

  • dyintorace

    March 17, 2010 9:23 a.m. dyintorace Dork

    I love ZHP's. I wish my 325iT was a 330iT ZHP.

    When I was shopping for one, I checked ebay often to see what successfully completed auctions closed for dollar-wise. It's a good barometer of the market.

    One thing I love about ZHP's is that they were available with a non-leather interior too. I really liked that interior.

  • sevenracer

    March 17, 2010 8:24 p.m. sevenracer New Reader

    Ok, I'm torn... just sold the 328i so ready to make a choice.

    The GTI better fits my original criteria (new car reliability - low hassle, fuel economy, car to haul mtn bikes, heated seats for wife, modern radio package) but damn the ZHP is sweet. Initial buy in is cheaper with the ZHP, but I think the total cost to own would be similar over 5 years.

    Which one would you choose, new GTI or 67k mile ZHP (assuming PPI is good)?

  • pigeon

    March 17, 2010 8:51 p.m. pigeon HalfDork

    The BMW all the way. I'm biased (see avatar) and had an E46 328i that I loved. The 330i is more than 2 better than the 328 - better suspension, stronger motor. I wouldn't worry about the miles - I bought my 328i with 100k miles and sold it 68k miles later with no major repairs, just typical stuff: water pump (x2, bad replacement), coolant overflow tank (common), intake cam sensor (common), valve cover gasket, broken rear spring (common), idler pulley (bad bearings, common) etc. The oil separator needed to be replaced when I sold it (common) but I didn't want the bother. Only left me stranded twice, with one water pump and when the overflow tank split. You'll notice that at this point all the stuff that's likely to go wrong is commonly known and easily repaired DIY, and the list isn't too long or expensive. On a 90k mile E46 car plan on doing a complete suspension overhaul soon - front control arms & bushings, rear control arm bushings, rear shocks and mounts, probably front struts. I'd do all belts and fluids including transmission and diff as soon as I got her home. The cooling system should be done around 100k miles if not sooner - the aforementioned water pump and overflow tank, together with the hoses. Other than that they're pretty bulletproof - drive and enjoy.

    As to the missing manuals and keys - don't worry about the manuals, there's nothing useful in there. It's one of the last BMWs that doesn't need a huge manual to figure stuff out - it's all pretty obvious, especially if you came from an E36. Besides, I think you can get it online through the BMW owner's circle on BMWUSA's web site. The keys though are expensive, I'd have the dealer get you another new key and the valet key as part of the deal, or take off the cost of doing that. The wheels, I'd worry about the rubbing and I personally wouldn't want to roll the fenders on my car. You should be able to swap them straight up for 18" M3 wheels (replicas anyway) without too much trouble. I think 16" are just fine for an E46 and the tires are cheaper.

  • ansonivan

    March 17, 2010 8:53 p.m. ansonivan Reader

    Clean ZHP without a second thought. It's already well down the depreciation curve, will hold it's value better than the gti and you wont have to drive a vw.

  • JThw8

    March 17, 2010 8:56 p.m. JThw8 SuperDork

    Yeah, without a doubt I'd take the ZHP.

  • aussiesmg

    March 17, 2010 9:03 p.m. aussiesmg UltraDork

    Couple of thoughts, paint is perfect yet wheels were curb damaged, key is missing and no records, it doesn't sound consistent. Have you spoken to the prior owner?

  • Josh

    March 17, 2010 9:13 p.m. Josh Dork

    It only takes one careless trip through a drive through or parallel parking mistake to curb up a pair of wheels. The key and records missing are pretty standard for a car that's been through an auction. I'd have an independent mechanic look it over for sure, but none of that stuff would make me particularly nervous.

  • ZOO

    March 18, 2010 7:23 a.m. ZOO Dork

    How does one identify a ZHP E46?

  • pigeon

    March 18, 2010 9:18 a.m. pigeon HalfDork

    Here's a good Wiki from Bimmerfest: E46 Wiki

  • Timeormoney

    March 18, 2010 9:24 a.m. Timeormoney New Reader

    In reply to sevenracer:

    I would talk the dealer down to a price that makes sense to you. If you can't get it for your right price, move right along.

  • sevenracer

    March 18, 2010 10:43 a.m. sevenracer New Reader

    In reply to Timeormoney:

    Yeah, that's great advice. I'm not sure how much value to deduct for the damage indicated in the CARFAX. To me, it seems pretty irrelevant if it was repaired correctly, but I'm guessing that will be a barrier to selling at market value when the time comes.

    Also, I have not had a lot of luck determining what the market value of a ZHP is vs a regular 330i.

  • rogerbvonceg

    March 18, 2010 1:05 p.m. rogerbvonceg New Reader

    sevenracer wrote:

    if it was repaired correctly,

    I am coming to the conclusion more and more that there is no such thing. Everybody just fills and paints, these days, and it's damn hard to blend a repair on a modern clearcoat finish, even if they did reshape the panel successfully (or replace it altogether).

  • 1slowcrx

    March 18, 2010 1:12 p.m. 1slowcrx Reader

    I'd go ZHP

  • Sonic

    March 18, 2010 2:03 p.m. Sonic Dork

    ZHP any day

 

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