3.8L V6 Camaro as Drivetrain Donor

I really like GM engines, so light, so compact, so much power potential. The only problem is that they tend to come attached to dreadful boats. Thus, a shining ray of inspiration erupted from within, light bursting from my every orifice. Why not remove the good GM drive train from the bad GM car?

I'm thinking of buying an old Corolla soon with the goal to eventually motorswap it. A V8 would be a tight fit and make the car pretty nose heavy. I'm also not sure if such a small car can really use much more than 250 or so hp. Hence I was thinking a 3.8L and five speed from a forth gen Camaro/Firebird. I want a reliable rig, around 10lb/hp and good handling. I don't want racing clutches or titanium valve springs and ideally. I don't want to do anything more than a cam, intake and headers. Well, unless a supercharger is easy to bolt on. 

On a scale of 1 to Kanye West, how bad an idea is this?

I think it is a great idea. That engine in the Corolla should be fun. Supercharger does bolt on but the rear facing throttle body (which is a bit on the long side) usually causes issues in a RWD applications.

I like the idea, but let's be realistic here.  Yes the GM 3.8L is compact, and very GRM priced.  However, it's neither particularly light nor powerful.  Sure it may be lightish for an all-iron lump, but it's heavier than the current 300+ HP (DOHC) 3.6L, and nearly as heavy as a 400+HP (aluminum) LSX.  You can add forced induction for good returns, but that kicks the weight up even further as well.  At which point main savings vs an LSX is probably around 4.4" of length...Which may still be enough to make it worthwhile.

Tinman's 3800 FC RX-7 might still be for sale, as of last year it was.  Unfortunately the build thread was jacked by the photobucket policy change.

Width is similar to a pushrod V8, but it is a bit shorter.

The supercharger package isn't particularly easy to bolt onto a naturally aspirated version, as GM relocated the injectors to the cylinder head to make everything fit. On the other hand, you can pick up a FWD car with the 3800 SC and a dead transmission for really cheap. Which has given me some rather unwise ideas involving finding a Regal or Riviera with a dead transmission, good bodywork, and a running engine, a wrecked six cylinder Camaro, and fabbing up new body mounts to turn the engine ninety degrees...

In a KE chassis corolla, might I suggest the venerable 1uzfe? It's light for a v8 (weighs 35lbs Less than a 22re) makes about 250hp. And best of all, its NA, and will go a million miles. And can be had for pocket change. All in, I'm at 1,800$ for my swap. 

The OE supercharger is not an easy bolt on in a RWD application, unless you don't mind relocating your radio so the intake plumbing has somewhere to run, the throttle body on a FWD 3800 (NA or blown) is on the back of the engine.

steronz said:

Tinman's 3800 FC RX-7 might still be for sale, as of last year it was.  Unfortunately the build thread was jacked by the photobucket policy change.

Nope, guy on my race team just bought it.  

Driven5 said:

I like the idea, but let's be realistic here.  Yes the GM 3.8L is compact, and very GRM priced.  However, it's neither particularly light nor powerful.  Sure it may be lightish for an all-iron lump, but it's heavier than the current 300+ HP (DOHC) 3.6L, and nearly as heavy as a 400+HP (aluminum) LSX.  You can add forced induction for good returns, but that kicks the weight up even further as well.  At which point main savings vs an LSX is probably around 4.4" of length...Which may still be enough to make it worthwhile.

Good points. The 3.6L DOHC V6 is a big engine externally though, especially compared to the 3.8, with a good bit of its weight up high. It's dang near as big as a LSX, as I compared a 2015 LFX to my LS3 in my 2012 Camaro. I was seeing how good of a fit it would have been in my MGB, 3.8L would fit easier and 200 hp will move the B quite well.

In reply to 81cpcamaro :

Yeah...If a small physical size is more important than weight, and 200HP is all you want/need, then it's a great option.

In reply to Trackmouse :

What kind of transmission plays nicely with the computer/bolts up?

As far as bolting up, the 3800 has the GM 60* bolt pattern, which is probably the most universal bolt pattern out there. Anything from a 4-cylinder Jeep to an Isuzu Trooper to a S10 or Camaro will bolt right up, or you can use the appropriate bell housing to bolt up transmissions from Chevettes to Supras to Pontiac Solstices. That's for rwd manuals.

For rwd autos you pretty much have the A904 torqueflight from Jeeps, the THM200/200C, TH700R4, 4L60/60E from S10s and Camaros, and the TH180 or 4L30E from Isuzus. Speedway motors also sells an adapter to let you bolt up an automatic with the classic SBC bolt pattern.

Since you're in Korea anyway, why not consider the Isuzu V-engine? All aluminum, SOHC or DOHC, bolts up to a GM V6 transmission, available in 3.1 and 3.5 displacements, and up to 230 HP bone stock.

In reply to DaewooOfDeath :

You can use the w58 ( cheapest option ), the r154, or the 350z 6spd.  Do note  that my Celica already came with the W 58 transmission, so I didn't have to purchase that or a driveshaft. But all of these things for the transmission to engine conversion can be purchased from Xcessive  manufacturing 

Some friends are putting one of these with a SC and T5 trans into their Lemons race car. The combo will be lighter then what was in there and have 4 times more power without even trying.

I always wanted to mix the computer and sensors (and maybe pistons) from the supercharged FWD car with the manifolds from the rwd Camaro and a turbocharger and drop it in an S10.

Before you spend any dough, do some measuring. An American V6, bell housing, and T5 or automatic transmission is ging to result in an under eight inch drive shaft in a tiny car like that. This set up is going to severely limit suspension travel in the rear and tax the front suspension and steering up front as well. Measure  everything up, weight the potential engine swap and see where you really stand. This sort of speculation is a lot of fun and you get an opinion from everyone with a keyboard and get a ton of information that you have no use what-so-ever for (insert turbo, supercharger, and anything with the word "mega" in front of it here) but know your limitations and the limitations of the car and transplant. Are you at all familiar with electronic ignitions or computer aided fuel injection or computer assisted overdrives? Do you have the expertise and money to mix and match drive line components? If you're using a single donor is it the correct donor for your end game?

Not to rain of this parade of opinions, but lots of hard and fast info to figure out on your own before you begin soliciting info from others. Be realistic !

In reply to Two_Tools_In_a_Tent :

I plan to, and thanks for the advice. 

I think I have some of this already figured out, but I'm not some amazing mechanic, so please feel free to correct me. 

According to the interwebs, the longest transmission I can bolt to the engine is a T200-4r, which is 28.25 inches long. The 3.8L is supposed to be 19.5 inches from the timing cover to the flywheel. A E70 has a 94 inch wheelbase, so I think I can still use a decent drive shaft.

The other engines I was considering for a swap were the Toyota 2TR-FE (the Tacoma I4) and the 4AGE. I'm leaning Buick 3.8l because it is shorter (and thus hangs over the front axle less) than both and lighter than the 2TR-FE. It's also more powerful than either. I am pretty sure it's shorter than the stock 3TC as well. 

I'm leaning away from the DOHC V6's because E70s have pretty narrow shock towers. I read the article about the guy who shoved a Lexus 4.0L V8 in one of these and it was a super tight fit. I'd rather have convenient engine bay access and the engine sitting farther back. I also kind of just think that V engines should be pushrod. That said, if somebody knows a 60 degree DOHC V6 that's cheap and plays nicely with RWD transmissions, I'd be open to that. 

As far as the electronics, I absolutely suck at electron wrangling. To get around that, I was planning to take the entire 3.8L, standard transmission, ECU harness as a unit. Hopefully, this stuff will never even come apart, which is another reason I was thinking 3.8L. They're simple, they get good mpg, they're reliable and in a car weighing 2200 lbs (stock they're under 2,000), it should have plenty of power.

With the stuff people have been saying about the superchargers, I'd probably just bolt in a mild cam, a cold air intake and some headers. 240-250 hp would be plenty. 

Since we're talking about GM drivetrains, what about a ecotec with a FI?  You could do a LNF 2.0L (turbo from the factory).   I understand the LE5 2.4L handles boost reasonably well and is cheap.  There's also the supercharged one (can't remember the engine code).  You'd save weight, reduce packaging concerns and have something a little more modern and achieve the targets you've specified.

You will probably need to fabricate your own custom headers.  Fbody ones a weird.  All the fwd ones are weird.

The driveshaft will probably be plenty long.  We stuffed a gm 3400 with a t5 into an rx7. We used a stock corvette c4 driveshaft.

If it weren't for your lb/hp ratio statement i'd say just leave it in the Camaro! I think 3.8/5spd Camaros are underappreciated both as drivetrain donors and in general. They're already pretty quick and with small power mods and major weight reduction would be a great start to a track car. The suspension options are out there and they fit huge tires. Like c4 vettes i think they are sort of crappy as street cars and excellent as racers.

In reply to Vigo :

For a race car I'm sure they're nice but man, out of all the sporty stuff I've driven, forth Gen F bodies are among my least favorite. I drove a 2001 Z28 and a supercharged 98 Z28 and I thought they were both numb, hard to see out of and ponderous. The engines were amazingly good, though. 

By comparison, that little E70 I had as a teenager is still my favorite car to drive. Rose tinted glasses? Sure, but they're my rose tinted glasses. ;)

If physical size, cost, and 200-250 hp is the most important thing I fail to see why a turbo rotary or turbo inline 4 doesn't just fit the bill. 

 I'm regards to the 1uz manual trans options.

I used a 240sx KA24 5 speed transmission behind the 1uzfe. You can use ka/sr20 trans which are basically the same as well as the 300zx na or tt. They're small and more than tough enough for 1uzfe engine. The 1uz is pretty light and really wakes up with a manual teams behind it.  Plus that sound it makes!

How does the 3grfe compare the the gm 3.8?