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March 31, 2009 8:45 p.m. daytonaer Reader

I apologize for not doing the proper research but one just popped up locally at a good price.

It's a 99 or so 540, automatic. Most likely high miles.

How do the auto's hold up? I would prefer the stick but will never find one at this price.

Are these dangerous with neglected maintenance? Based on his asking price I highly doubt its been kept up well, although its great cosmetically.

ie. is it like the 6 w/out proper coolant system maintenance is a time bomb?

I've been swamped with work + fam stuff otherwise I would have done a little homework instead of just asking. Are there a few things I should look out for? Like ask when he changed coolant and water pump and be prepared to walk based on his answer? Were there silly cylinder linings I need to look into?

And no, this wouldn't be a car for me so DIY stuff is mostly out.
March 31, 2009 8:46 p.m. daytonaer Reader

And thanks!
March 31, 2009 8:55 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

It's a BMW, so the coolant system is on a 60K change interval. IIRC it's ~$500 in parts to change everything.

The automatics aren't great. They had 2 different ones during the E39 run. Neither was great, but one was a relatively cheap to replace GM unit and the other is a ridiculously expensive ZF unit IIRC.

By E39, the nikasil issue had passed.
March 31, 2009 9:21 p.m. 02Pilot New Reader

Personally, I have no real issue with high mileage BMWs as long as they don't have automatics. While some have run them successfully over many miles, I've seen enough failures to scare me off them permanently. The "lifetime fill" transmission fluid has not improved the situation by most accounts.

Aside from the transmission, you've got the aforementioned cooling system, which is more of a time bomb in the V8s than the I6s since everything is packed in that much tighter. There are some other common failure points: the valley pan allows coolant to leak; the CCV is apparently starting to see failures on the V8s, and the bad part is located inside the timing chain cover and takes a lot of work to replace; I seem to recall hearing about a timing chain guide failure or two as well.

If it were me, I'd walk unless the price were so low that I could do the cooling system and the transmission and still come out ahead.
March 31, 2009 9:32 p.m. skruffy Dork

If it doesn't have the sport package don't bother. The granny gear rear end sort of kills the luxo-muscle car fun of the 540 (under 80mph or so, anyway...) as does the lux suspension and big floppy tires. At this point the auto has either already been done or needs it bad. However, a 6spd swap isn't all that difficult but will be rather expensive (or about the same price as rebuilding the auto). The M5 LSD ($$$) will drop in with the proper drive shaft and half shafts.

Aside from the cooling system and vallypan gaskets, I remember reading something about a nut in the oil pump coming loose over time. That may have pertained to a different car though.

How cheap is it? I've seen 6 speed cars under $10k a few times now.
March 31, 2009 10:06 p.m. Rusty_Rabbit84 New Reader

i remember they always needed power steering lines. Every single 540 that came in had leaky lines.... and a couple of instances of clutches going out around 80 to 90k, but i say "a couple" of instances. Didnt the 99''s and up come with the halos stock? My old boss did a 528it wagon conversion to M5 - SICK!!!
March 31, 2009 10:35 p.m. vazbmw New Reader

Great cars, but by my standard they are expensive and a bit difficult to work on, but I do like the BMW v8. Cooling system will need to be replaced, which means the intake manifold has to be removed, which means you might as well change the intake gaskets, possibly the knock sensors (heat makes them brittle) etc. Look out for worn control arm bushings, not a hard swap LSD rear end on the E34 540 is easy to find on Ebay for about $400 Motor mounts will need changing, PITA various sensors killed by the intense heat of the filled-to-the-brim engine compartment All in all I would say have about $2000 - $3000 stashed for repairs on a good lean car. A poorly maintained car I would not mess with since the v8 is expensive to repair. Remember, new this car was a @ $50K car
March 31, 2009 10:39 p.m. vazbmw New Reader

i would say it is more than $500 for a cooling system. The radiator and pump is more than that, plus hoses, then belts, o-rings removal of the intake manifold, then all the things you will see when you remove the intake manifold.

I bet if I pulled my receipts the total is closer to $1000

DILYSI Dave wrote:

It's a BMW, so the coolant system is on a 60K change interval. IIRC it's ~$500 in parts to change everything.

The automatics aren't great. They had 2 different ones during the E39 run. Neither was great, but one was a relatively cheap to replace GM unit and the other is a ridiculously expensive ZF unit IIRC.

By E39, the nikasil issue had passed.
March 31, 2009 11:04 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

vazbmw wrote:

i would say it is more than $500 for a cooling system. The radiator and pump is more than that, plus hoses, then belts, o-rings removal of the intake manifold, then all the things you will see when you remove the intake manifold.

I bet is I pulled my receipts the total is closer to $1000

DILYSI Dave wrote:

It's a BMW, so the coolant system is on a 60K change interval. IIRC it's ~$500 in parts to change everything.

The automatics aren't great. They had 2 different ones during the E39 run. Neither was great, but one was a relatively cheap to replace GM unit and the other is a ridiculously expensive ZF unit IIRC.

By E39, the nikasil issue had passed.

Looks like prices have gone up a bit, but not too much. Pelican's Water Pump Super Kit is $450. Radiator is $170. Coolant Tank is $60. So, complete overhaul for $680 + incidentals, and I bet you could shop those part prices down some. I never had to do mine - Why does the intake have to come off?
April 1, 2009 7:53 a.m. vazbmw New Reader

Intakes comes off to access the o-rings for the transfer tube. the transfer tube runs from the water pump to the rear of the engine through the valley. The o-rings get damaged by heat and become a leaking point, plus when you try to remove the waterpump it will most likely pull the transfer tube out. This makes it necessary to access and change the o-rings. Really a pain in the butt. But, I have done worst
DILYSI Dave wrote: I never had to do mine - Why does the intake have to come off?
April 1, 2009 7:59 a.m. GregTivo Reader

Rusty_Rabbit84 wrote:

i remember they always needed power steering lines. Every single 540 that came in had leaky lines.... and a couple of instances of clutches going out around 80 to 90k, but i say "a couple" of instances. Didnt the 99''s and up come with the halos stock? My old boss did a 528it wagon conversion to M5 - SICK!!!

All BMW's had leaky power steering lines from my experience. Some just started earlier than others. It was dependant on the size of the system and underhood temps.

One day I'd like to get an unmolested 540i 6spd as a 5th car ()
April 1, 2009 8:23 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

Gotcha. That makes sense.
April 3, 2009 8:49 a.m. daytonaer Reader

Thanks guys.

Its been sitting for about a month and he's asking 5k. So I know its negotiable. The guy's lot he has it on said it would only be there for a few days...

I think I'll give him a call and ask about the year (for tranny info) and coolant maintenance history. I'm not willing to dive into a coolant fix up project if it needs it however.
April 3, 2009 8:51 a.m. daytonaer Reader

And BTW,

You guys are awesome!
April 3, 2009 9:15 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

That's a decent price but not a steal. Depending on how negotiable, it could get into the steal range though. The automatics are generally cheaper than the manuals, by a fair bit.
April 3, 2009 9:58 a.m. skruffy Dork

If you aren't interested in working on the cooling system don't buy a BMW at all. Even if it's just been done the cooling system is a wear item just like brake pads or shocks. You'll be doing it a few times over the life of a BMW no matter what.
April 3, 2009 10:24 a.m. njansenv Reader

^ And think of it this way, you don't have a timing belt interval to worry about, unlike some of those cars with "reliable" cooling systems.
April 3, 2009 12:38 p.m. Chris_V SuperDork

Radiator new (behr) is $145. Water pump new (OEM) is $165. Expansion tank is $50. Plus hoses. I've done 'em all to my 740 (did them when I got it, 'cause it had 143k on it with no record of recent replacement).

Be prepared for the Cam Position Sensor to need replacement ($100 and about 10 minutes to replace).

The OSV (oil separator valve) on the back of the intake manifold sometimes goes bad on the V8s at high miles. It's about $75.

PS hoses leak at the reservoir. usually it's due to the factroy one timne use clamps weakening. Replace with 20 cent standard hose clamps. Sometimes the pressure line to the rack from the pump leaks. That's under $100, but is a PITA to change on the V8 cars. Took me an hour to do the one on mine due to how yhard it was to get my hand down to the top of the steering rack (forget coming up from underneath).

Suspension bushings tend to go bad at higher mileage, too, but you can tell how bad they are pretty easily and generally they won't be too bad on a daily driver.

Those are the BMW specific areas to look for. Everything else is the typical kinds of things you want to look for in any used car, based on your priorities.
April 3, 2009 3:47 p.m. VWguyBruce HalfDork

I just purchased a '97 540i/6 with just under 100k miles for $7850 that has had all of the required maintenance and then some. Right off the bat I had to replace the waterpump gasket, I wouldn't consider it difficult just a PITA after only getting to drive it for a month. I'm not sure why it went bad but maybe different climate and driving style, who knows. I was glad I wasn't doing a head gasket.

I had a couple cars inspected before I bought this one and I'm glad I did. The first, a '99 was going to need about $5k worth of crap. The second, a 2001 had higher mileage but needed nothing, only the seller sucked.

Most of the craigslist cars I looked at were going to need lots of engine seals, ie valley pan, oil pan, valve covers, etc. Later cars had noisy VANOS bits, I went with a '97 to avoid the VANOS but got a car with a M5 LSD to compensate.

I looked for just over 2 months and ended up looking at 6 or so cars and saw lots of pictures of others via the web. I held out for the best car I could find with a as complete maintenance history as possible.

If you've got a busy life then I would avoid a 540i with so many unknown variables. If you really want one, shop around or lowball the heck out of the one you're looking at. Offer $2500 or so. Even still get a PPI if you have a reputable shop around, it's worth it in the end.

Good luck!
April 3, 2009 5:40 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/cto/1101552661.html

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/ctd/1098323049.html

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/ctd/1085330691.html
April 3, 2009 9:29 p.m. benzbaron Reader

A friend of mine in college had a 528i and it was a very nice car. I like the look and feel of it, plus it had a straight six. It was very comfortable. An eight cylinder would probably be a blast.

Damn the germans must have something about cooling, after I did the thermostat my stupid car started overheating, it needed a major flush, some crap must have come out. From now on I'm planning on doing the coolant and a chemical flush every 2 years. Be glad you can buy a radiator, my cars radiator is unique to two import models, it is probably 1000$ if you can find one POS.
April 4, 2009 8:58 a.m. dean1484 Dork

Thread Hijack Warning

I saw a 550i Yesterday. Is that really a v12 in there? That much motor in that car? I was looking at the 740's / 750's for a while and it became apparent that the "40" motors were about the same in Hp and torque compared to the "50" motors. I assume that this then only really is a status thing.

Now a 540 sport is a really sweet ride. For we that are getting a bit older I can see this a the perfect combination of German handling and refinement (to get me out of my porsche 924) and yet it has of American muscle. And better yet it can carry the kids. Having thought this over a P71 is so yesterday compared to a 540i sport. But then there is the purchase price and the cost of ownership. I really need to sit by but down and do a 5 and 10 year comparison of the two cars as I will be needing to upgrade to a new ride in the next year or so.
April 4, 2009 9:12 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

dean1484 wrote:

Thread Hijack Warning

I saw a 550i Yesterday. Is that really a v12 in there? That much motor in that car? I was looking at the 740's / 750's for a while and it became apparent that the "40" motors were about the same in Hp and torque compared to the "50" motors. I assume that this then only really is a status thing.

Now a 540 sport is a really sweet ride. For we that are getting a bit older I can see this a the perfect combination of German handling and refinement (to get me out of my porsche 924) and yet it has of American muscle. And better yet it can carry the kids. Having thought this over a P71 is so yesterday compared to a 540i sport. But then there is the purchase price and the cost of ownership. I really need to sit by but down and do a 5 and 10 year comparison of the two cars as I will be needing to upgrade to a new ride in the next year or so.

A P71 will be cheaper to buy and cheaper to own. It ill also be a P71. There is no comparison. The E39 is superior in every way.
April 4, 2009 9:16 a.m. Chris_V SuperDork

On the 740 and 750, the hp ratings were actually kind of fudged, as the 4.4 liter V8 had actually a bit over 300 hp, right up new the V12. BUT, the peak hp ratings only told half the story. The V12, simply has a smoother, broader powerband, that feels much stronger everywhere. The 0-60 times can be deceptively close, but the difference in how it gets there is quite huge.

Of course, the V12 car comes with a lot of comfort/luxury options that were not available on the V8 cars, from wood trays on the seatbacks, to power reclining and heated rear seats, to higher trim levels (and hand stitched leather dash instead of molded vinyl). A lot of guys do updates to their 740s with 750 parts.

The 750s also tend to have fewer mechanical problems (and don't seem to have the cooling system issues of the V8 cars. I'll probably replace my 740 with a 750 when time comes.

But I do like the way mine sounds and goes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwl0lwgf-TI
April 4, 2009 12:25 p.m. pigeon Reader

I believe the 550i is the current generation V8 5 series car. I drove one with a 6-speed manual before buying my current 750Li, and decided that I didn't need that many speeding tickets or to have to put 2 sets of sticky rear tires on it each summer - there was no way I wasn't going to drive that car at max hoonage all the time

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