Flat_Black13z
Flat_Black13z New Reader
4/10/11 7:09 p.m.

Looking for ideas/opinions/help in an engine swap in my newly acquired 92 cx hatch. Track rat only. No comfy bits or smog needed. Purely speed is what im after.

Car currently rocks a E36 M3ty b15b8 5 speed. We have a 98 f23a1 in a accord. This swap is the easiest to perform as its already sourced and can hear it run and all that jazz. Ive read it up pretty good and found that it is basically the same as a h-series swap. I've found the mounts that i need, and pretty sure ill need 90-93 integra axles and a 90-93 accord intermediate shaft. I'm still confused on what ecu to run and what harness ill need for the vtec.

The car came with a believed to be a d16z6 vtec head, wiring harness and ecu. Assuming this is the mini me swap, providing the lower end is in good shape, what would this net me in gains?

Is rather sell the whole mini me swap to finance the f23 as a h22 is just down the road.

Any opinions or insight please enlighten me, as I am new to the Honda game but not new to engine swaps.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
4/10/11 8:06 p.m.
Flat_Black13z wrote: Car currently rocks a E36 M3ty b15b8 5 speed. We have a 98 f23a1 in a accord. Is rather sell the whole mini me swap to finance the f23 as a h22 is just down the road.

B15B8???? Do you mean D-series?

The H-series is about 40~50lbs heavier then the B-series. Honestly I would prefer the B-series to the H-series. Turbo manifolds and aftermarket parts are in general more expensive for the H-series. If you are determined to go H-series, I wouldn't bother swapping until you had a H-series.

Run_Away
Run_Away Reader
4/10/11 8:25 p.m.

Really depends on your budget and goals.

Fastest in a straight line with littlest $$$ I'd vote swap the F23 in, mate it with a H-series transmission for shorter ratios. I'm not sure of the specifics as far as axles go for a H/F swap but for a harness you'll either make up your own out of the stock D series harness (off the top of me head you'll only have to add VTEC wiring, the rest will just be lengthening certain parts of the harness to make the D harness fit an F). ECU-wise there was no OBD1 F23 ecu so your best best would be to chip the stock ECU and run the stock F23 maps if available or just a basemap suited to a stock F23. You could also convert to OBD2 and run the stock F23 ecu but that involves a lot more wiring (evap stuff, secondary O2s, adding the EGR wiring the civic doesn't have, I think accords had the variable length intake going on too..) and severely limits your tuning options.

Most honda guys pass over the F series swaps as not worth it but I'd wager all that extra torque would allow it to hang with some of the more common and higher hp rated swaps, especially with a H22 trans to take advantage of it.

corytate
corytate Reader
4/10/11 9:01 p.m.

turbo d series or turbo f23 friend at school has a turbo'd f22 and it goes pretty good

Flat_Black13z
Flat_Black13z New Reader
4/10/11 9:14 p.m.
93EXCivic wrote:
B15B8???? Do you mean D-series? The H-series is about 40~50lbs heavier then the B-series. Honestly I would prefer the B-series to the H-series. Turbo manifolds and aftermarket parts are in general more expensive for the H-series. If you are determined to go H-series, I wouldn't bother swapping until you had a H-series.

Yes, sorry d15b8 70 horse rat.

My budget is limited for the beginning of the season, hence the wanting of a vtec f23 out of the upull yard for $125. Once i get things figured out, a 200 horse h22 is just a phone call away.

I do not have access to a H22 trans either unfortunately. I could get one out of ebay i bet, but this f23 is manual trans already. Unless the h22 trans is a lsd or something awesome i could wait.

Can i convert to obd2 by swapping the entire accord harness into the civic? I have the entire car to my disposal. The car has no dash or cluster, so it would be pretty easy. Whatever would be beneficial for the h22 later on.

I would go b-series, but i dont have acess to one right now but i do to a f23, hence the whole H22 later on would be easy as i will have the mounts now. the torque would be nice too.

Flat_Black13z
Flat_Black13z New Reader
4/10/11 9:20 p.m.

i didnt mean to quote that last piece.

also, i would like this to remain NA, as no turbos are allowed.

clutchsmoke
clutchsmoke New Reader
4/11/11 1:35 a.m.

Better off with an Integra LS swap IMO. Yes the initial swap of the F23 will likely be slightly cheaper, but all aftermarket goodies for the H and F series are far more costly than B series.

Flat_Black13z
Flat_Black13z New Reader
4/13/11 9:50 p.m.

found a jdm h22 in a 90-93 accord the other day. Runs like a champ and car has lots of goodies to part out. Going to pull the drivetrain and everything with it.

can i install the ecu and harness from the accord into the civic? everywhere i read, they are splicing the stock d-series harness into it.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
4/13/11 11:01 p.m.

For what it's worth, I loved the B16A that was in my CRX.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
4/14/11 6:19 a.m.
Flat_Black13z wrote: found a jdm h22 in a 90-93 accord the other day. Runs like a champ and car has lots of goodies to part out. Going to pull the drivetrain and everything with it. can i install the ecu and harness from the accord into the civic? everywhere i read, they are splicing the stock d-series harness into it.

Ok, that was the last piece of the puzzle.

Ready?

Use the F23 bottom end. Get some K20 pistons out of an RSX Type S. Slap them in. Take the H22a head and slap that on. Get an H2B trans conversion and a GSR/B16 tranny, slap that on.

Silly, STUPID fast for peanuts.

Here's more detail: (G23 Vtec)

http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp_0902_k24_vtec_versus_g23_vtec_tech_knowledge/index.html

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
4/14/11 8:27 a.m.

Good call. I had forgot about the G23. I would try to do that later on. As far as the wiring harness, I am sure you will need to do some modification to the stock and engine one. Do some searching on Hondatech and I bet you will fine the answers. Or you can probably get a swap harness. What are you using it for as far as racing HPDE days or autocross?

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
4/14/11 9:10 a.m.

I wasn't going to say anything about it until he mentioned he had easy and cheap access to an H22, and already had an F23. He's already halfway there.

If he didn't want to frankenstein anything, i'd probably personally prefer the F23 over the H22. I'm not a fan of the H22 swap in Civics. Has some negative aspects that don't outweigh the positives when compared to a proper LSVtec or any nice B-series for that matter. (Except B16s. I think they're worthless.)

Please note that the same negatives of the H22 swap still apply to the "G23," but at least the G23 makes appreciably more power than you'll be making on a B-series on a budget.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
4/14/11 9:16 a.m.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

What are the negatives of the H22 swap in your opinion? They are really not that much heavier from what I have read. Aftermarket parts are more expensive.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
4/14/11 9:47 a.m.
93EXCivic wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: What are the negatives of the H22 swap in your opinion? They are really not that much heavier from what I have read. Aftermarket parts are more expensive.

Aftermarket is a little more expensive, messes with weight distribution even more, (Civics need all the help they can get) and you're going to be spacing your hood jdm style, y0! unless you get some fancy (read: expensive) drop mounts that create some other issues on their own. How bad those issues are depends on how OCD you are i would imagine. They would sell them if they didn't work. Also, lack of a good trans option unless you do H2B, which then costs more money.

However, i wouldn't put up with any of those issues with a regular H22. I'd build an LSVtec and go to town instead.

But... i could deal with spacing my hood with a nasty G23 in the bay.

Flat_Black13z
Flat_Black13z New Reader
4/14/11 9:34 p.m.

Car will be used for gasp dirt and pavement ovals.

I could care less about the hood gaps anyways.

Im not really afraid of frankensteining, but i would really like to get a motor in there first and get it running. Ive had both the f23 and the h22 running, both sound good. The h22has about 35k on it, with a bunch of boltons too. Greddy blue timing belt, manual tensioner, header, 2.5 exhaust... The f23 on the other hand has 180K and is bone stock. oil change sticker said it needed to be changed 2 years ago and at 145K. The clutch pedal also sticks, as i think it needs a new slave.

Maybe later down the road ill go g23, but for now im going to focus on the h22 swap unless you guys can talk me out of it lol.

Any other forums or websites you could point me to on a h22 swap in a eg? Still concerned about axles, wiring, and ecu selection. Thanks

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
4/15/11 9:35 a.m.

I would do some searching on Hondatech. There are a lot of idiots there but there is also lots of good information. Do searching before you ask questions though because you will get attacked if you don't. Hasport has a lot of parts for making the swap easier. Also King Motorsports carries Drive Shaft Shop parts for engine swaps.

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