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Javelin
Javelin UltimaDork
5/22/12 1:38 p.m.

I'd love an LSx swapped one, but I'd want to start with (or upgrade to ) a 951. The plain 944 oily bits don't seem to last too long behind a douple-plus horsepower bump.

docwyte
docwyte HalfDork
5/22/12 1:47 p.m.

So far no issues with collateral parts on my '89 Turbo, motor is making 375rwhp and about the same in torque

Javelin
Javelin UltimaDork
5/22/12 1:50 p.m.

In reply to docwyte:

Exactly why the 951 is the one to start with! The puny brakes and transaxle in my 944 probably wouldn't be able to say the same things yours do.

dean1484
dean1484 UltraDork
5/22/12 3:23 p.m.
Javelin wrote: In reply to skywalker01: I made another thread for the conclusion, sorry! It turned out to be a slave cylinder that had a torn boot, allowing water to collect in the bore, rusting it. I replaced the slave cylinder and then the pig wouldn't bleed because the "engineers" decided to run the hydraulic fluid from the brake reservoir, which is fine, but they ran it from the top. So I plugged that, cut the hose, and connected in a dedicated reservoir for the clutch (using a clutch fluid reservoir from an 88 TBird Turbo Coupe that's been in my shed for 6 years). Voila! Autocrossed it Sunday, won my class, drove it home (it's a 50 mile each-way trip to the AX). Clutch is A-OK.

You have to post pix and a how write up for that mod!!!!!. This has been a problem for 944 owners since the red sea was parted

If you do this and you don't mind I would want to cross post it over at Clark's Garage.

turboswede
turboswede PowerDork
5/22/12 3:57 p.m.
dean1484 wrote:
Javelin wrote: In reply to skywalker01: I made another thread for the conclusion, sorry! It turned out to be a slave cylinder that had a torn boot, allowing water to collect in the bore, rusting it. I replaced the slave cylinder and then the pig wouldn't bleed because the "engineers" decided to run the hydraulic fluid from the brake reservoir, which is fine, but they ran it from the top. So I plugged that, cut the hose, and connected in a dedicated reservoir for the clutch (using a clutch fluid reservoir from an 88 TBird Turbo Coupe that's been in my shed for 6 years). Voila! Autocrossed it Sunday, won my class, drove it home (it's a 50 mile each-way trip to the AX). Clutch is A-OK.

You have to post pix and a how write up for that mod!!!!!. This has been a problem for 944 owners since the red sea was parted

If you do this and you don't mind I would want to cross post it over at Clark's Garage.

A pressure bleeder helps resolve this as well, but that is masking the poorly engineered solution implemented.

Javelin
Javelin UltimaDork
5/22/12 4:00 p.m.

In reply to dean1484:

I'm working with a well-known vendor to make it an inexpensive retrofit kit! We're just trying to nail down a much more easily obtainable reservoir than the 2-year-only odd-duck model that I happened to have used

Nashco
Nashco UltraDork
5/22/12 4:15 p.m.
turboswede wrote:
dean1484 wrote:
Javelin wrote: In reply to skywalker01: I made another thread for the conclusion, sorry! It turned out to be a slave cylinder that had a torn boot, allowing water to collect in the bore, rusting it. I replaced the slave cylinder and then the pig wouldn't bleed because the "engineers" decided to run the hydraulic fluid from the brake reservoir, which is fine, but they ran it from the top. So I plugged that, cut the hose, and connected in a dedicated reservoir for the clutch (using a clutch fluid reservoir from an 88 TBird Turbo Coupe that's been in my shed for 6 years). Voila! Autocrossed it Sunday, won my class, drove it home (it's a 50 mile each-way trip to the AX). Clutch is A-OK.

You have to post pix and a how write up for that mod!!!!!. This has been a problem for 944 owners since the red sea was parted

If you do this and you don't mind I would want to cross post it over at Clark's Garage.

A pressure bleeder helps resolve this as well, but that is masking the poorly engineered solution implemented.

Can't you just jack it up sideways (or park it on a hill) so that the fluid gets to the hose easier? I know it's not as good as a properly engineered system, but seems a hell of a lot easier. I've never seen the problem, just imagining the scenario.

Bryce

Javelin
Javelin UltimaDork
5/22/12 4:39 p.m.

In reply to Nashco:

I tried that, and it doesn't work. The clutch hose nipple is literally even with the top of the master cylinder reservoir (but still below the fill neck), and at the very front of the reservoir. You already have to have the front left of the car up (to fit under it to get to the bleeder that you have to take the starter out to get to) so you end up jacking up the right rear as well to get the fluid to drain. Then you have one person operate the bleeder, one person mash the pedal, and one person pouring brake fluid into the reservoir to keep air from entering. Don't forget the witch doctor, some mashed potatoes, and a 5-leaf clover, too.

skywalker01
skywalker01 New Reader
5/22/12 5:56 p.m.
Javelin wrote: I'd *love* an LSx swapped one, but I'd want to start with (or upgrade to ) a 951. The plain 944 oily bits don't seem to last too long behind a douple-plus horsepower bump.

I have an '83 944/LSX and it's holding up well to the rigors of Autocross/Solo and upcoming trackdays. The only advantages of the 951/newer platform is the suspension. The early 944 has the better transmission for the upgrade.

docwyte
docwyte HalfDork
5/23/12 12:08 p.m.

I'd contest that. The 951's have better brakes, the S2's and Turbo S's have stronger tranny's and some come with tranny coolers.

So it's more than just suspension differences. Nothing that you can't easily add onto the NA 944 though...

Javelin
Javelin UltimaDork
5/23/12 12:27 p.m.

Just off the top of my head, even comparing year-to-year such as my 86, the 951 has different transaxle components including oil cooler, gearsets, and ring & pinion; 4-piston fixed caliper brake calipers on larger rotors front & rear; larger front & rear swaybars (standard and optional ones); different shocks, springs, and torsion bars; 16" wheels; and all of the body aero additions (front bumper/valance/spoiler, rear under spoiler, sideskirts).

Yes, you can add all of that stuff to a 944, but for the $$$ you might as well start with the 951. (Unless you're building an all-out track car and would replace every single one of those components anyways, then a 944 would be okay).

turboswede
turboswede PowerDork
5/23/12 5:57 p.m.

Have you seen the joke they call a transmission cooler they used on some of the 951's? Not sure it is something to crow about. The ring/pinion are certainly stronger, which doesn't hurt.

Brembo's are kinda overrated, unless you're a good enough driver to brake the car hard enough at the limit to make use of the stiffer calipers and better heat management. The stock brakes with good pads haul those cars down quite well in most environments.

I think his point was that the early 944 had better gearing for use with a V8. Also the GT-40 and Lambo guys have discovered that Audi transaxle and have made several modifications to improve its durability.

I'd start with an early 944 to get the lightest chassis possible and then swap over the bits and bobs I wanted from a totalled 951. Of course I'd be tempted to put the rest of the 951 engine bits into a 924S just to mess with people :)

docwyte
docwyte HalfDork
5/24/12 9:11 a.m.

It's a heck of a lot better than no cooler at all.

The brembo's, at least on the Turbo S cars are amazing. Even the regular Turbo brembo's are a big upgrade over the NA cars.

No issues with gearing on my Turbo transmission. The taller 5th gear from an NA would be nice on the freeway, that's about it. It's an easy swap, much easier than swapping all the turbo stuff over to an NA.

You can find a turbo chassis for dirt cheap, doesn't make sense not to grab it cost wise vs an NA.

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