A question for the E30 bros.

I've got a line on an interesting E30 but I have a few questions regarding the chassis.

1. Is there a cooling solution for a 300+ hp E30? I know that mishimoto makes an aluminum racing rad for the chassis. Are there any other solutions that could handle track days at VIR?

2. How well does the E30 chassis deal with 300+ hp and same amount of torque stresses? Does it need to be caged or gusseted in some way to keep from becoming a steel pretzel?

It handles the HP/torque well assuming you are not using a stock trans. The diffs are seeming indestructible up to 400hp or so.

They are a pretty stiff chassis for the era and over-built almost everywhere but if you can add a strut brace, nylon up the rear subframe, control arm, diff bushings and brace the top where the diff mounts to the subframe you would be better off.

If you are using the stock front sub-frame, beef up the ears where the motor mounts go and I'll just assume you will be running a fat bar up front - brace up the mount tabs.

As for cooling - if you are removing the AC condenser - you can gut out the radiator support and fit a Speedway aluminum radiator (26" width chevy style is perfect). They are a $140 solution - just make sure the cap is slightly higher than the water neck so it self-bleeds with a little inclination. You can use those metal flex hose kits and some hose bits to make nice looking and strong hoses too.

I added a 16" SPAL pusher on a switch but only ever need it when piddling around the paddock after a hard run in 90+ weather.

GSP . . . You got any pics you can share of your track monster?

Makes me want to build an E30

I'm having evil thoughts of doing something tasty to the 530i

For as much flack the M60B30 gets, it's pretty fun in a 3600lbs E34 . . . . I'm betting it would be MORE fun in 2500lbs E30

Strike_Zero wrote: I'm betting it would be MORE fun in 2500lbs E30

Try 2240 wet with no driver 255/240 at the crank (well, before I blew it up on WED at the Glen) Now its a pretty anemic four cylinder that just has two cup holders on one end :)

That light, eh . . . .

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: It handles the HP/torque well assuming you are not using a stock trans. The diffs are seeming indestructible up to 400hp or so. They are a pretty stiff chassis for the era and over-built almost everywhere but if you can add a strut brace, nylon up the rear subframe, control arm, diff bushings and brace the top where the diff mounts to the subframe you would be better off. If you are using the stock front sub-frame, beef up the ears where the motor mounts go and I'll just assume you will be running a fat bar up front - brace up the mount tabs. As for cooling - if you are removing the AC condenser - you can gut out the radiator support and fit a Speedway aluminum radiator (26" width chevy style is perfect). They are a $140 solution - just make sure the cap is slightly higher than the water neck so it self-bleeds with a little inclination. You can use those metal flex hose kits and some hose bits to make nice looking and strong hoses too. I added a 16" SPAL pusher on a switch but only ever need it when piddling around the paddock after a hard run in 90+ weather.

Thanks GSP. Exactly what I was hoping to read. This is still in the "maybe" phases so will report back once the journey is completed. Whatever that means.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Strike_Zero wrote: I'm betting it would be MORE fun in 2500lbs E30

Try 2240 wet with no driver 255/240 at the crank (well, before I blew it up on WED at the Glen) Now its a pretty anemic four cylinder that just has two cup holders on one end :)

Damn, that's light. The 318 with most stuff stripped out and a little M10 up front (and no cage!) is hardly at 200, lol.

irish44j wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Strike_Zero wrote: I'm betting it would be MORE fun in 2500lbs E30

Try 2240 wet with no driver 255/240 at the crank (well, before I blew it up on WED at the Glen) Now its a pretty anemic four cylinder that just has two cup holders on one end :)

Damn, that's light. The 318 with most stuff stripped out and a little M10 up front (and no cage!) is hardly at 200, lol.

I'll post an interior pic later and you will see why... I could be 100lbs lighter if I hadn't gone with an iron block S52 and 5 lug swap.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I'll post an interior pic later and you will see why... I could be 100lbs lighter if I hadn't gone with an iron block S52 and 5 lug swap.

Now you've done it...

I'm reading the Vorshlag build thread on the SCCA forums and they had a real problem with locating the front wheels during their 5 lug swap. How did you get around that? Did you use a custom lower control arm or was their an off the shelf solution?

Xceler8x wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I'll post an interior pic later and you will see why... I could be 100lbs lighter if I hadn't gone with an iron block S52 and 5 lug swap.

Now you've done it... I'm reading the Vorshlag build thread on the SCCA forums and they had a real problem with locating the front wheels during their 5 lug swap. How did you get around that? Did you use a custom lower control arm or was their an off the shelf solution?

Their problem was because they couldn't spend thru the problem and stay on budget and/or didn't want to get involved with moving the pick up points around.

96+ E36 M3 arms, Ground Control "kicked" struts (designed for E36 to E30 swap) with 20mm Aurora rod ends in place of the bushings (screwed into home-made aluminum blocks) relocated to move the castor back in to usable range. The top of the struts are reinforced and cut to allow the camber plates to slide for more camber (and less castor) adjustment also. There are adjustable tie rod stackers to adjust for bump steer.

It took me a few iterations to get it to turn without jacking or bump steering like mad. It is pretty good now.

My advice would be to avoid the swap entirely as it adds unnecessary weight, cost and time. I did all of the work I did because of available wheels and a perception that I needed more strength. The strength issue is a non-factor I had imagined in my own head - plenty of people race E30s on slicks w/o problems. I had already got far down the road to finishing up the swap when I realized 95% of the people on bimmerforums are berkeleying idiots and not to be trusted with any sort of alignment issue on a race car. Well, I actually knew that - but there was a lot of consensus that both I and Fair learned was bullE36 M3 the hard way right around the same time.

You can get nice light 15" wheels in the 4 bolt to fit wide slicks, have some other wheels filled and drilled or have custom ones made up for you with a lot less hassle.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: when I realized 95% of the people on bimmerforums are berkeleying idiots

Nothing more than the truth about that site, are they still on a vandetta of hatred towards anything non-///M???

I would have bolted on some Diamond Race wheels of the 4x100 and 15x10 variety and had a ball.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I had already got far down the road to finishing up the swap when I realized 95% of the people on bimmerforums are berkeleying idiots and not to be trusted with any sort of alignment issue on a race car. Well, I actually knew that - but there was a lot of consensus that both I and Fair learned was bullE36 M3 the hard way right around the same time.

Thanks for the info. I felt the same way with turbomiata.net once I was 3/4's of the way through building my turbo'ed Miata.

Thanks again for the wisdom.