P71 wrote:
Chris_V wrote:
I've raced with them for many years, as well. Greg knows that car inside and out and has owned/raced it for decades. So not only is he a multi-time national champion in ANYTHING, that particular car is wired into his hindbrain in a way that pretty much no one else's car will ever be, so it's not surprising that HE can win with it, same with Jodi. But that doesn't mean that anyone else can get into that car and be even slightly competitive.
Listen, the deal still is that R comps are NOT necessarily a cost-prohibitive way of going. My own RX7 above (which Greg did the suspension setup on) was on R comps for 5 years (only used two sets in all that time) and cost less than a lot of cars in class. I also didn't have multi-adjustible suspension (Tokiko HPs and Tokiko sport springs). And the limiting factor in being competitive will ALWAYS be the driver. Limiting to stock tires won't change that, nor will it end up costing less (ever see stock tires chunk up from being overheated in competition use? To really do it properly, you will STILL want a second set of wheels and tires, so the savings might be less than a hundred bucks a season. When you start with a $20-25k new-er car, that's chump change). And if someone wants to be competetive, they will STILL be at the same disadvantage to winning based on skill running against the same people.
But back to the main arguement, which is cost, I think your theoritical #'s are way off of reality. For 205/50/15's (typical Miata/Honda size) a ST legal Bridgestone RE11 (the current "hot" tire) is $97 each. Even if you shave them they'll last a whole season, so $400 for a set per year. A6's are $210 each. Even if by some miracle you get a whole season (8-10 autocrosses at 3-5 runs each) you're still looking at $840 for tires. God forbid it rains, then you'll need a set of wets at $210 each as well.
Tire Rack
That's a huge difference and you can't tell me with a straight face that 1 set of r-comps will last that long. It's expensive, and that's all there is to it.
Still though, r-comps are not "stock" and do not fit the intent of the original rules. That's why there needs to be change.
So you're now telling me that I didn't get 15k miles and a couple years of street driving and weekend autocrossing out of each set of tires on that car? OK. I guess I must have f*cking hallucinated that lifespan and actually bought 27 sets of tires in the 5 years I owned the car, and merely "forgot" about it. And I wasn't able to build the car and autocross on R comps in actuality, due to only making $7.50/hour at the time because R compound tires (we're discussing cost, not what class they are on) is a barrier to anyone to be able to autocross inexpensively.
I get it. YOU don't want to spend any money to go autocrossing. But as a barrier to actually getting out there, as in the OP, R comps are no more of a cost than buying a new car to go autocrossing and that happens all the time, too. Or are you saying that spending $800 for tires to autocross for a season it outrageous, but spending $30k for a new autocross car isn't? I spent $400 for those tires, and drove them for a couple years on the street and track. Then I spent another $400 on A032Rs and drove THEM for a couple years on the street and autocross (and they were apparently still on the car a couple years after I sold it, too)
Again, as a cost, they are no more a barrier to joining a Stock class than a Mini Cooper S payment is.
