LordTurbonia
LordTurbonia New Reader
3/15/11 2:49 p.m.

I've run across several basket case Spiders in my search for a new project, and I was wondering if anyone had ever seen a single donor Locost built from a Spider? It seems a cheap alternative to the Miata, and since there are quite a few Spiders around that are too rusty to restore, I figured it's be a neat way to keep some Italian hardware on the road.

(My welder friend is back in town and bored... and uttered the magic words: "I'll do the frame for beer. Just let me drive it when it's done.")

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
3/15/11 2:52 p.m.

I like the idea a lot. No useful input.

Rusted_Busted_Spit
Rusted_Busted_Spit Dork
3/15/11 2:54 p.m.

AlfaBB

Locost Alfa

It has been done at least once.

alfadriver
alfadriver SuperDork
3/15/11 3:07 p.m.

If you want to go really old school, I have enough parts of an old Giulietta Sprint- engine, trans, front suspension, rear axle, drum brakes, gages, etc.

This stuff is very early 750 series. No idea what I have kept it for....

(SE MI)

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim SuperDork
3/15/11 3:13 p.m.

The one thing I can think of is that the Alfa twin cam is a pretty tall engine, which might be an issue.

LordTurbonia
LordTurbonia New Reader
3/15/11 3:28 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: If you want to go really old school, I have enough parts of an old Giulietta Sprint- engine, trans, front suspension, rear axle, drum brakes, gages, etc. This stuff is very early 750 series. No idea what I have kept it for.... (SE MI)

Well, if that was southeast Missouri instead of Michigan, I'd take you up on it.

As an aside, I'm eyeing a SPICA model for $800 right now. Body damage AND rust.

alfadriver
alfadriver SuperDork
3/15/11 4:27 p.m.

In reply to LordTurbonia:

Sorry... :)

For the Spider you are looking at- does it run? If no, take off a bunch. If barely, take off some. If yes, well, that helps. I bought a rusty spider for $250, but engine turned out to be toast.

In terms of a Locost, the only major change I would suggest is changing the front spring type from a pan in the middle of the lower A to a coil over where the shock connects- or something like that. I could not figure out how to anchor a spring pan that you could adjust easily. That blog posted may have a good way to do that.

One cool thing- you don't have to have a panhard rod- since the trunion arm does both lateral and upper arm work. Not the best for geometry, but most will be ok with that.

racerdave600
racerdave600 HalfDork
3/15/11 4:51 p.m.

4 cyl. Alfas are sweet, sweet motors, and fairly easy to rebuild. They have cylinder liners that replace with the pistons. Other than being a bit tall, they don't have a huge downside. The basic architecture dates back to their '30's GP cars. Anyway, they can build pretty big power, and some like the 2 liters have decent torque as well. They're not common like Miata motors are, so parts are bit more expensive.

alfadriver
alfadriver SuperDork
3/15/11 7:46 p.m.

BTW, if you are really going to do this- may want to consider a shape modification to the Locost... This car was made with both 101 and 105 chassis. The 105 and the Spider are bascially identical (a few changes happened for the 115's...). The Quattroroute was based off the old 1750's- and there are a lot of versions of that. Simple shapes, too.

LordTurbonia
LordTurbonia New Reader
3/16/11 10:42 a.m.

1) I forgot about the cylinder liners! New pistons with no machine work . . .

2)Alfadriver, what is that thing? I was going to use the standard Locost/Seven style to ease construction and parts sourcing, but frankly that thing is not too far off from a clamshell-fendered Seven. Just need to work the radiator in somehow.

ditchdigger
ditchdigger HalfDork
3/16/11 11:02 a.m.
alfadriver wrote:

I lack the required one of these to operate a vehicle like that.

alfadriver
alfadriver SuperDork
3/16/11 11:27 a.m.
LordTurbonia wrote: 1) I forgot about the cylinder liners! New pistons with no machine work . . . 2)Alfadriver, what is that thing? I was going to use the standard Locost/Seven style to ease construction and parts sourcing, but frankly that thing is not too far off from a clamshell-fendered Seven. Just need to work the radiator in somehow.

It's called a Quattroroute, which is a replica of an Alfa 6C 1750, but since Alfa sanctioned Zagato to make it, it's not seen as a replica, but as a real Alfa.

The first cars were basically 1600cc's Giula (101 cars), and the later were 1600cc 105 cars (basically what we call Spiders and GTV's).

If you do a picture search of 6c 1750, or 8c 2300, 8c2500, etc- or Alfas of the 30's, you'll get some really interesting shapes that are incredibly like the basic shape of a 7- cycle fenders and all.

I'd really like to see a 105 version of the 4R in person, since the front wheels are quite a bit ahead of a normal Spider/GTV, and the resulting cross member doesn't appear to be the same.

Either way you look at it, like you see- it's very close to a 7 shape. May be a wider chassis to look porportionally better, or even a little taller. But look at old pictures of cars to see if you even need a door.

I had contemplated making one of these styled cars for the Challenge. It would be pretty cool.

LordTurbonia
LordTurbonia New Reader
3/16/11 12:28 p.m.

That Zagato piece has me VERY intrigued.

Alas, a monkey wrench:

http://littlerock.craigslist.org/pts/2265831524.html

An 84 GSL-SE RX7, for parts. $250.

(In what kind of world is a man forced to choose between Rotus and Itus?)

kreb
kreb Dork
3/16/11 12:34 p.m.
Rusted_Busted_Spit wrote: It has been done at least once.

I know that it's been done, but that's a picture of a V6 Stalker.

Do those alfa's have the rear transaxle? If so, I think that would present a problem because there isn't space between the seats for a gearbox.

alfadriver
alfadriver SuperDork
3/16/11 1:04 p.m.

In reply to kreb:

750/101/105/115 cars all have live axles. (Giulietta, Giulietta/Giula, Spider/GTV, US versions of the same)

It's the 116/119 cars that have the transaxles (Alfetta, GTV6, Milano)

If you want to be really crazy, the 164's were FWD....

alfadriver
alfadriver SuperDork
3/16/11 1:06 p.m.
LordTurbonia wrote: That Zagato piece has me VERY intrigued. Alas, a monkey wrench: http://littlerock.craigslist.org/pts/2265831524.html An 84 GSL-SE RX7, for parts. $250. (In what kind of world is a man forced to choose between Rotus and Itus?)

If it runs, jump on it. Didn't the GSL-SE have a better engine?

(my only think would be if you could use the front RX suspension. I know so little about them to not know.)

Rusted_Busted_Spit
Rusted_Busted_Spit Dork
3/16/11 1:28 p.m.

In reply to kreb:

That is what I get for not reading. The guy that started the thread on the AlfaBB had that pic at the end of his first post about starting the build. A few posts down he says that it is a Stalker. Oops.

ArthurDent
ArthurDent Reader
3/16/11 2:08 p.m.
alfadriver wrote:
LordTurbonia wrote: That Zagato piece has me VERY intrigued. Alas, a monkey wrench: http://littlerock.craigslist.org/pts/2265831524.html An 84 GSL-SE RX7, for parts. $250. (In what kind of world is a man forced to choose between Rotus and Itus?)

If it runs, jump on it. Didn't the GSL-SE have a better engine?

(my only think would be if you could use the front RX suspension. I know so little about them to not know.)

Rx-7s have front struts but they don't have rack and pinion steering though. The GSL-SE has the better bolt pattern, bigger 13B engine and a LSD rear end.

LordTurbonia
LordTurbonia New Reader
3/16/11 4:33 p.m.

Frankly, I'd use Miata front end kit (spindles, shortened rack, brakes, etc) with the FB donor. I'm more intrigued by the injected 13B/5 speed/LSD/disc brake live axle drivetrain package for $250, and I can also cannibalize interior bits, gauges, etc. It ran when parked, you know the story . . . guy was going to strip it for cherry parts for his 79 FB.

Fact: I've never dealt with spinning triangles, and the possibilities are starting to excite me a bit more than an Alfa twin cam. I see the two engines as much more similar than different in terms of HP/lb and mounting challenges (Alfa oil pan, rotary exhaust) but even with drop-in liners the Alfa has a pretty hard limit of where it wants to live.

I could probably get some juice from Webers, Euro cams, Motronic pistons, etc but rotary porting alone boggles my mind . . .

alfadriver
alfadriver SuperDork
3/16/11 7:18 p.m.

In reply to LordTurbonia:

Not that it helps much, but if you got an Alfetta oil pan, it makes it as narrow as the engine, without the wings. I have a brand new one if I ever put a 2.0l in a Giulietta.

IMHO, the scary part is starting it. That's a big commitment that scares the crap out of me. Hope you do it!

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