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NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
5/22/20 9:48 a.m.

Finally took the FRS in for the valve spring recall. It is an engine out job where they plug compressed air in the plug hole and change the valve springs.

 

So as I drop it off I ask the nice service guy to put new plugs in while the engine is out. Cause I know what it cost to do them and what a pain it is. "That should be standard" he assures me. Car is right at 100k km.

 

Different service manager calls two days later to say "come get the car." I ask to make sure the plugs were changed. NOPE they were not. Was not written on the service order so we did not do it. But if you want we can take the engine back out and do it for $600 Cnd.

They cant understand why I am not happy.

I should maybe check if there is oil in the crankcase.

 

 

captainawesome
captainawesome HalfDork
5/22/20 10:07 a.m.

In reply to NOHOME :

I'm so glad my 13 came with an already swapped 15 engine. I think the next 300 miles after your service should be nerve wrecking. Sucks about the plugs though. It's hard to get any of these guys to write stuff down and somehow just by memory alone translate that info to the tech.

nderwater
nderwater UltimaDork
5/22/20 10:12 a.m.

Does the spring issue impact the '14s as well, or just the 2013 models?

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise SuperDork
5/22/20 10:20 a.m.

Sucks about plugs. 

 

did they not provide paperwork? 
 

in USA before I leave a dealership, if I ask any work to be added, they seem to print more estimate pages, and won't let me leave without more autographs from me

wae (Forum Supporter)
wae (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
5/22/20 10:21 a.m.

...the engine has to come out to swap spark plugs?

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter)
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
5/22/20 10:32 a.m.
wae (Forum Supporter) said:

...the engine has to come out to swap spark plugs?

Apparently. Factory takes the mounts loose and jacks it up but DIYers have done it without. But it ain't easy.

I think designing a car so the engine has to be removed to change a wear item is unreasonable no matter how the dealership dropped the ball. Unfortunately, if he didn't write it on the work order you probably can't get them to honor it. Which is not at all connected to being justifiably pissed off that it didn't get done.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/22/20 10:35 a.m.
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
wae (Forum Supporter) said:

...the engine has to come out to swap spark plugs?

Apparently. Factory takes the mounts loose and jacks it up but DIYers have done it without. But it ain't easy.

I think designing a car so the engine has to be removed to change a wear item is unreasonable no matter how the dealership dropped the ball. Unfortunately, if he didn't write it on the work order you probably can't get them to honor it. Which is not at all connected to being justifiably pissed off that it didn't get done.

Jacking up the engine a few inches and removing the engine are two entirely different things. 

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
5/22/20 10:37 a.m.

Not in writing it never happened.  The fault on this is a 50/50 split. 

I would insist on a 50/50 split of the $600 to get it done.

 

 

 

 

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
5/22/20 10:44 a.m.

Did you speak to a service advisor, or a service manager? (or both) You can ask the service manager to do the right thing, but I wouldn't hold your breath, they're all about short term profit margins. The service advisor probably isn't going to remember telling you they would replace the plugs and if they do, they likely will not admit it as I have to imagine it would impact their pay (they're commissioned sales people).

In answer to your larger question, I don't think you're being unreasonable, but I'd be genuinely surprised if they do the right thing. I'd temper expectations accordingly.

An example of how they think: When the engine on my old RX-8 expired (bearings) they reused the oil filter filled with metal shards and fouled spark plugs. They tried to upsell me on a new clutch assembly because the clutch release bearing was noisy. They wanted to charge regular/full price.

MrFancypants
MrFancypants Reader
5/22/20 10:47 a.m.

Not unreasonable. I'd be angry too.

I've changed plugs on WRXs before and didn't find it to be too much more difficult than anything else.  The engine must be in these cars really tight if you have to mess around with the engine mounts to get at them. 

Cactus
Cactus HalfDork
5/22/20 11:24 a.m.

@.@

 

This thread has me relieved that I'm allergic to Subarus.

 

I'd take a hole saw to whatever sheet metal is in the way. Make an access port.

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter)
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
5/22/20 11:31 a.m.
z31maniac said:
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
wae (Forum Supporter) said:

...the engine has to come out to swap spark plugs?

Apparently. Factory takes the mounts loose and jacks it up but DIYers have done it without. But it ain't easy.

I think designing a car so the engine has to be removed to change a wear item is unreasonable no matter how the dealership dropped the ball. Unfortunately, if he didn't write it on the work order you probably can't get them to honor it. Which is not at all connected to being justifiably pissed off that it didn't get done.

Jacking up the engine a few inches and removing the engine are two entirely different things. 

you're correct. And both are unreasonable to change a spark plug.

parker
parker Reader
5/22/20 11:48 a.m.

Sucks that they didn't do while the engine was out.  I changed the plugs on my FR-S and it wasn't that hard.  Less than an hour.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
5/22/20 12:03 p.m.
parker said:

Sucks that they didn't do while the engine was out.  I changed the plugs on my FR-S and it wasn't that hard.  Less than an hour.

And they want $600 for this.  I think this is the real problem here.

 

 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
5/22/20 12:07 p.m.
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
z31maniac said:
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
wae (Forum Supporter) said:

...the engine has to come out to swap spark plugs?

Apparently. Factory takes the mounts loose and jacks it up but DIYers have done it without. But it ain't easy.

I think designing a car so the engine has to be removed to change a wear item is unreasonable no matter how the dealership dropped the ball. Unfortunately, if he didn't write it on the work order you probably can't get them to honor it. Which is not at all connected to being justifiably pissed off that it didn't get done.

Jacking up the engine a few inches and removing the engine are two entirely different things. 

you're correct. And both are unreasonable to change a spark plug.

That hasn't been the reality since the 1970s. And that was before plugs went from regular maintenance items, to something that the first owner of a vehicle probably will not have to think about.

 

I have never done anything on a Frisbee, but if all you have to do is take off two nuts and jack the engine up, that is fantastic compared to having to remove an intake manifold.  Heck, it would be easier than on some inline fours where there is a whole lot of stuff on top of the engine.

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
5/22/20 12:10 p.m.

If they don't do it I will do it. Checked and the plugs my cost are like $15 at Carquest not the $35 Toyota charges.

 

I think I have the service rep who called me convinced that under the "Reasonable to one skilled in the arts" criteria, they should have been changed no matter what.

What I  fail to understand is that even if it were NOT on the work order, as predatory as dealer service is, how could they pass up the opportunity to up-sell me the plugs at the $140 that they charge?

As to the Subaru Boxer engine? It has to be the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Four cams for four cylinders and they consider head gaskets to be a consumable. Taking one apart is a revelation. Never again. And yet they have their fans?!

Asked the first service rep what he knew about the bearing failures that were being experienced after the recall and he said he had never heard of such a thing. Nice to know up front that the person you are working with will lie with a straight face. Or he really did not know and that might be even worse.

Fingers crossed over the next month or so that the bearing don't wipe out from stray silicone in the oil feeds. Between the aggravation and the to come anxiety, I really regret taking a well running car in for the recall at this point.

 

 

 

 

 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
5/22/20 12:17 p.m.

In reply to NOHOME :

The ones with head gasket issues (mostly overblown) are the single cam models.

The FA/FB don't eat head gaskets, they eat rod bearings after people forget to put oil in them, which while being an oil consumption issue, is still operator error. Much different architecture than the EJs.

penultimeta
penultimeta HalfDork
5/22/20 12:24 p.m.

Subarus are dumb and overpriced. I'll fight about it. 

Justjim75
Justjim75 Dork
5/22/20 12:39 p.m.

Man, i would have thrown in plugs and an oil change for the inconvenience of you having to bring your car in to fix a design and manufacture berkeley up.

E36 M3, i would have washed it and filled the gas tank too

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
5/22/20 12:44 p.m.

In reply to Justjim75 :

Don't mess with my dirt. I have been building patina on this car since the day it was picked up!

But I will check for oil when I pick it up.

docwyte
docwyte UberDork
5/22/20 12:44 p.m.

That's just dealer pricing.  My Porsche dealer wanted $1400 just in labor to install the spark plugs and coil packs I already had sitting on my work bench.  That's with my 10% PCA discount too, so really it was $1575.  I installed them myself in 3 hours and I'd never done the job before.  A Porsche tech could do it in 1.5-2 hours, so a $750+/hour labor rate, which is more than I make as a doctor

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/22/20 12:48 p.m.
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
z31maniac said:
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
wae (Forum Supporter) said:

...the engine has to come out to swap spark plugs?

Apparently. Factory takes the mounts loose and jacks it up but DIYers have done it without. But it ain't easy.

I think designing a car so the engine has to be removed to change a wear item is unreasonable no matter how the dealership dropped the ball. Unfortunately, if he didn't write it on the work order you probably can't get them to honor it. Which is not at all connected to being justifiably pissed off that it didn't get done.

Jacking up the engine a few inches and removing the engine are two entirely different things. 

you're correct. And both are unreasonable to change a spark plug.

Simple. 

Don't buy one. cheeky

It's not any worse than the amount of stuff that has to come off say, the top of 135i engine to change the plugs. 

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
5/22/20 1:05 p.m.

Bit more to it than undoing two easily accessible engine mount  bolts and raising it 2" with a floor jack or some such.

Most people who do it themselves seem to use a collection of wobble joints and extensions.

MrFancypants
MrFancypants Reader
5/22/20 1:34 p.m.

I went looking for a "how to" on this spark plug change....  and it isn't clear to me why people are messing with the engine mounts and jacking up the engine.  There isn't a lot of space to work but you can feed in your tools one piece at a time.  

The spark plug socket and extension will not go in assembled because there isn't enough room, so just push the socket in and then the extension.  Press the extension into the socket with it all in the spark plug hole.  Make sure to have the rubber piece in your spark plug socket so it's easier to pull the plug out.  To reinstall do the same as before but remove the rubber piece from the spark plug socket so it doesn't stay in the car with the plug.  The whole job shouldn't take much more than an hour to do.

If you've never changed plugs on a Subaru it looks a lot more intimidating than it actually is.   The techs at the dealership are almost certainly knocking these out in less than 30 minutes per car.

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
5/22/20 1:41 p.m.
NOHOME said:

I think I have the service rep who called me convinced that under the "Reasonable to one skilled in the arts" criteria, they should have been changed no matter what.

What I  fail to understand is that even if it were NOT on the work order, as predatory as dealer service is, how could they pass up the opportunity to up-sell me the plugs at the $140 that they charge?

Asked the first service rep what he knew about the bearing failures that were being experienced after the recall and he said he had never heard of such a thing. Nice to know up front that the person you are working with will lie with a straight face. Or he really did not know and that might be even worse.

If you are talking to someone who believes the dealership has some accountability for the level of service they provide, then you are dealing with an exceptional individual. This now qualifies as an above average dealership customer service experience. ;) I don't think most dealership service departments/advisers are terribly competent, that's how they missed the opportunity to bill you for something you requested and they don't know about common failures.

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